Maybe. But instead we've had a potential hostile contact with the Apiata's evil cousins.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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Maybe. But instead we've had a potential hostile contact with the Apiata's evil cousins.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
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[X] Briefvoice
I must point out that my plan lists no specific breakdown of which ships Starfleet will be sent. How can you say I'm stripping the border when I don't say which ships would be pulled?
I don't mind having a rival plan, but I see serious issues with @chriswriter90 's plan.
1. I think it's a poor idea to lock in exactly how many ships we will be sending. Why would you do that?
2. Romulan notification, yes. Romulan involvement, no. We can't trust them, and I don't want to have people we can't trust in battle.
3. Disagree with a Licorice border zone. It makes no sense in the context of an all-out war. What do you think it would do mechanically?
1. I think it's a poor idea to lock in exactly how many ships we will be sending. Why would you do that?
2. Romulan notification, yes. Romulan involvement, no. We can't trust them, and I don't want to have people we can't trust in battle.
3. Disagree with a Licorice border zone. It makes no sense in the context of an all-out war. What do you think it would do mechanically?
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Threw together my own shot at an SoE-requesting plan. I'm open to revisions from other people who are thinking along similar lines.
[X][OPS] Reorganise Starfleet Operations (10pp)
[X][ADVICE] If this is to be war, take the war seriously.
-[X] Madam President, I fully understand and appreciate your concerns regarding the Licori. Given the scientific techniques available to their Mentats, they could indeed be an existential threat to the entire Federation, if desperate enough to actively weaponize those abilities. Indeed, that particular point, coupled with the damage they have done to us by accident, seems to be the entire justification for this proposed war.
-[X] Even so, consider the military situation from the Licori perspective. To date, the Arcadian Empire has only been at war with the Ked Paddah, who are their peers, in terms of military strength. Even the addition of the Gaeni to that war does not tip the situation too far against the Arcadians. But if we join that war, then we force the Emperor's hand; we put the Licori in a situation in which they cannot win by conventional means, and must employ their scientific superweapons against us in order to stand any chance of prevailing.
-[X] As such, it is the position of Starfleet that a war with the Licori is expected to develop into a crisis as threatening as that posed by the Ulith III Biophage. Even if we consider only their known capabilities, the Licori have the technology to destroy stars. The same techiques which created the star collapse that crippled the Courageous could, if used on an older and larger star, be used to trigger a supernova which could depopulate the bulk of the Federation... and it would only take them a single ship to do so.
-[X] Against such a threat, the only sane response is to declare a State of Emergency, and it is my intetnion to do so should war be declared. While such a move may seem premature when facing a wholly unknown threat, what we know of Licori capabilities demands nothing less. If we are to go to war with them, we must take them seriously, and that will demand every resource the Federation can throw at the problem. The full diplomatic, military, industrial, and scientific capabilities of the Federation will be needed to handle problems ranging from coordination of allied forces, to battlefield repairs, to countermeasures against star-destroying weaponry.
-[X] If you find yourself unwilling to commit to such measures, then I strongly advise you to reconsider your position on this war. Perhaps a diplomatic solution may yet be found which would allow the Arcadain Emperor to save face. Perhaps the current war might smoulder on without the invocation of Licori superweapons, in the absence of our own presence to force their hand. Perhaps the Romulans might be convinced to intervene. But what we must not do is send in just enough firepower to seriously threaten the Licori, without enough backing to deal with the consequences of the apocalypic forces they will invoke to avoid defeat at our hands.
[X][OPS] Reorganise Starfleet Operations (10pp)
[X][ADVICE] If this is to be war, take the war seriously.
-[X] Madam President, I fully understand and appreciate your concerns regarding the Licori. Given the scientific techniques available to their Mentats, they could indeed be an existential threat to the entire Federation, if desperate enough to actively weaponize those abilities. Indeed, that particular point, coupled with the damage they have done to us by accident, seems to be the entire justification for this proposed war.
-[X] Even so, consider the military situation from the Licori perspective. To date, the Arcadian Empire has only been at war with the Ked Paddah, who are their peers, in terms of military strength. Even the addition of the Gaeni to that war does not tip the situation too far against the Arcadians. But if we join that war, then we force the Emperor's hand; we put the Licori in a situation in which they cannot win by conventional means, and must employ their scientific superweapons against us in order to stand any chance of prevailing.
-[X] As such, it is the position of Starfleet that a war with the Licori is expected to develop into a crisis as threatening as that posed by the Ulith III Biophage. Even if we consider only their known capabilities, the Licori have the technology to destroy stars. The same techiques which created the star collapse that crippled the Courageous could, if used on an older and larger star, be used to trigger a supernova which could depopulate the bulk of the Federation... and it would only take them a single ship to do so.
-[X] Against such a threat, the only sane response is to declare a State of Emergency, and it is my intetnion to do so should war be declared. While such a move may seem premature when facing a wholly unknown threat, what we know of Licori capabilities demands nothing less. If we are to go to war with them, we must take them seriously, and that will demand every resource the Federation can throw at the problem. The full diplomatic, military, industrial, and scientific capabilities of the Federation will be needed to handle problems ranging from coordination of allied forces, to battlefield repairs, to countermeasures against star-destroying weaponry.
-[X] If you find yourself unwilling to commit to such measures, then I strongly advise you to reconsider your position on this war. Perhaps a diplomatic solution may yet be found which would allow the Arcadain Emperor to save face. Perhaps the current war might smoulder on without the invocation of Licori superweapons, in the absence of our own presence to force their hand. Perhaps the Romulans might be convinced to intervene. But what we must not do is send in just enough firepower to seriously threaten the Licori, without enough backing to deal with the consequences of the apocalypic forces they will invoke to avoid defeat at our hands.
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What os this bizarre fascination you all have with giving the Licori to the Romulans. Don't give the Romulans starkilling technology.
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
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That's not the point of that statement; there's a difference between "Let's warn the Romulans about this power we consider threatening on par with the Biophage, so they can help us and/or our allies to neutralize it" and "Let's invite the Romulans to seize the dangerous archives of the Licori Mentats and delve through them for horrifying weaponry."
That said, that wasn't even my recommendation. My recommendation was "Let's take this seriously and fight the Licori with a full-fledged State of Emergency, so the Romulans don't feel obliged to clean up the mess in a way that legitimately scares us."
It's more of a heads up, that battle fleet near your borders isn't there to invade you but to put down some crazies who are playing with star-killing firecrackers like the rabid dogs they are. It's merely professional courtesy.
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You, uh, kinda did. Not in the formal plan, but your proposed ship distribution.
Unless I missed a retraction because I ended up running errands at lunch which cuts into my reading time, and in which case I apologize.
I think that was @Briefvoice running some mental exercises; he's right not to commit to anything specific in the advice because we don't know what the scenario will be exactly next quarter.
Yes, that.
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I took a second look at what the president was actually saying, and it seems that she is determined to declare war and just wants advice on strategy. So Briefvoice's post is really the only one that really answers her question instead of offering unsolicited advice.
Attacking the freighters sounds like the best idea to me, too. Now I don't their fleet will enter battle with a superior force. What I think is likely is that they will tell us to desist or they will use their Star Destroyer. Then hopefully people will enter into negotiations again.
Really, the whole war seems ill conceived. There is a reason why noone dares attack a state who has nukes, and the Licori weapon is a lot worse.
[X] Briefvoice
Attacking the freighters sounds like the best idea to me, too. Now I don't their fleet will enter battle with a superior force. What I think is likely is that they will tell us to desist or they will use their Star Destroyer. Then hopefully people will enter into negotiations again.
Really, the whole war seems ill conceived. There is a reason why noone dares attack a state who has nukes, and the Licori weapon is a lot worse.
[X] Briefvoice
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
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I like chriswiter90's plan over Briefvoice's wall of text, but I also share his reservations about it. I particularly like the emphasis on strategic objective and distinguishing of the noble houses over the imperial forces.
I'd rather just notify the Romulans about the Federation action near their borders, rather than try getting them involved in any way, not that they should be with the imminent war with Klingon. I'm also ambivalent on the border zone - in a state of war it's unnecessary, but if the conflict gets downgraded, then it'll be like the SBZ.
As for Blackshard's plan, I'm sympathetic to the attempt to force a diplomatic solution or else, but it feels too much like an ultimatum being delivered to our president. And the president and council are unlikely to accept a SoE without further proof or escalation - only the hawks would vote for that, I feel.
I'd rather just notify the Romulans about the Federation action near their borders, rather than try getting them involved in any way, not that they should be with the imminent war with Klingon. I'm also ambivalent on the border zone - in a state of war it's unnecessary, but if the conflict gets downgraded, then it'll be like the SBZ.
As for Blackshard's plan, I'm sympathetic to the attempt to force a diplomatic solution or else, but it feels too much like an ultimatum being delivered to our president. And the president and council are unlikely to accept a SoE without further proof or escalation - only the hawks would vote for that, I feel.
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I'll be honest, it's not the intent, but it seems like Blackshard's plan is blackmailing the President with a State of Emergency. That's how I would feel if such a speech was delivered to me.
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Really I find it hard to come up with a sensible idea on military startegy because I don't quite understand what the Federation wants.
@OneirosTheWriter, could the President maybe tell us a bit more about what the goal of the operation is. What would be the victory condition?
@OneirosTheWriter, could the President maybe tell us a bit more about what the goal of the operation is. What would be the victory condition?
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Do you mean Blackshard? Briefvoice's plan is a straightforward outlining of strategy and what we need to fight the war conventionally.
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No point in setting up a border zone for an enemy we plan to invade and neutralize in the immediate future. We can set up an LBZ if we fail and the Beta Quadrant doesn't get vaporized.
We should tell the Romulans that we have been attacked by a species coreward of them, and that we are sending a fleet to eliminate this new threat. No need to tell them more than that.
EDIT: on second thoughts, the Romulans would also be in the effect radius of a Licori-induced supernova. Tricky moral decision. On one hand, we should warn them. On the other, can we trust them to not try to steal that technology?
We should tell the Romulans that we have been attacked by a species coreward of them, and that we are sending a fleet to eliminate this new threat. No need to tell them more than that.
EDIT: on second thoughts, the Romulans would also be in the effect radius of a Licori-induced supernova. Tricky moral decision. On one hand, we should warn them. On the other, can we trust them to not try to steal that technology?
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The LBZ would mean Mentat experiment events would happen in the LBZ rather than in the Sol sector. We can apply to the President to establish it now and in the same request, remove it after the war is resolved.
Yes, I'm sorry. Correction accepted.
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
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A State of Emergency is not needed unless and until we see weapons of planetary destruction used, or actively deployed in combat or around civilian occupied systems.
In terms of pressing on the Licori, I would sooner pull ships out of the Gabriel Expanse, and shift to a holding situation there than I would push for an SoE.
What we do want is permission to ask member fleets to send ships to aid our fleet so that they are authorized to leave their sector. I have not seen any mention yet, but Vulcans have some Oberths. Also, I suspect Sarek would go over well with the Kad Peddath, and putting him on a veteran explorer would be a good excuse to send one of the other ones to the area.
In terms of pressing on the Licori, I would sooner pull ships out of the Gabriel Expanse, and shift to a holding situation there than I would push for an SoE.
What we do want is permission to ask member fleets to send ships to aid our fleet so that they are authorized to leave their sector. I have not seen any mention yet, but Vulcans have some Oberths. Also, I suspect Sarek would go over well with the Kad Peddath, and putting him on a veteran explorer would be a good excuse to send one of the other ones to the area.
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
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Hm... Two Mirandas and a Connie out of commission in the GBZ, and I've no idea where we'll contrive to repair them, we are completely full up...
Revak is down to just the Clarion, too, unless some of the TF1 ships are going to be reassigned to him.
For ships to go to the Licori front... the vast majority of our sectors are down to two ships each, and not exactly fighting prim ships at that. If one were to try and assemble a fleet without drawing down Gabriel or lowering D reqs...
The best I could come up with, by mugging Peter for all he's worth then selling off his organs to pay Paul, is a C40 S37 force (Endurance, Salnas, Kearsarge, Typhoon, Lightning, Blizzard, Thunderhead, Dryad, Calypso, Svai, T'Mir, Inspire)
e: Note, to get the above we'd be literally stripping Tellar and Amarkia completely bare, and leaving Apinae, the CBZ, the SBZ, and the KBZ with a single ship each, and playing musical chairs with several ships.
Revak is down to just the Clarion, too, unless some of the TF1 ships are going to be reassigned to him.
For ships to go to the Licori front... the vast majority of our sectors are down to two ships each, and not exactly fighting prim ships at that. If one were to try and assemble a fleet without drawing down Gabriel or lowering D reqs...
The best I could come up with, by mugging Peter for all he's worth then selling off his organs to pay Paul, is a C40 S37 force (Endurance, Salnas, Kearsarge, Typhoon, Lightning, Blizzard, Thunderhead, Dryad, Calypso, Svai, T'Mir, Inspire)
e: Note, to get the above we'd be literally stripping Tellar and Amarkia completely bare, and leaving Apinae, the CBZ, the SBZ, and the KBZ with a single ship each, and playing musical chairs with several ships.
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