- Location
- Panama City
The entire situation with the Lidori came at a bad time, but the Federation cannot pussyfoot around with a civ that's developing starkilling weapons. So what we want is kinda secondary at this point.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- USA
- Location
- Patriarchova
Still reading the post, but I just wanted to let you know:
I see what you did there.
I see what you did there.
- Location
- somewhere
@OneirosTheWriter what are the stats of Yrillian Corsairs? Our own intelligence reports making comparisons to ships we don't know anything about OOC (Corsairs appeared a couple of times, but there have been no battle logs) isn't very helpful. Alternatively the comparison should be made with a ship we already have stats for, perhaps the Soyuz which seems to be of similar weight.
For that matter, what are the base stats of starbases? It looks like we'd need to disable/destroy those as well if we want to end the war, so their stats are rather relevant for how large a force we will need.
For that matter, what are the base stats of starbases? It looks like we'd need to disable/destroy those as well if we want to end the war, so their stats are rather relevant for how large a force we will need.
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I can't access spreadsheets from my phone.
Okay, let me get some preliminary thoughts out. Not going to be a complete vote yet. (Also, about to get on a plane so out for a few hours.)
[] (DRAFT) Advice points:
- Member world support should be primarily from areas most threatened by Mental experimentation. This would be: United Earth, Betazed, Vulcan, and Rigel.
-Andor and Tellarite contributions would be welcome. Captain Grand Fleet should remain in place to secure rimward border, same is true for Amarki, Apiata, and Indorians securing our fronts with the Cardassians.
- Starfleet would like permission to strip garrisons to High Alert levels, that is half normal requirement. Based on this would anticipate we could contribute:
Tentative war plans (collapse to bottom line for president)
Licori War Plans
In Q1 anticipate being able to add 1 Excelsior. In Q2, 2 more Excelsiors.
[] (DRAFT) Advice points:
- Member world support should be primarily from areas most threatened by Mental experimentation. This would be: United Earth, Betazed, Vulcan, and Rigel.
-Andor and Tellarite contributions would be welcome. Captain Grand Fleet should remain in place to secure rimward border, same is true for Amarki, Apiata, and Indorians securing our fronts with the Cardassians.
- Starfleet would like permission to strip garrisons to High Alert levels, that is half normal requirement. Based on this would anticipate we could contribute:
Tentative war plans (collapse to bottom line for president)
Licori War Plans
- Sol: Send Renaissance to "Licori". Send Selaya (Constellation) to reinforce the Sydraxian Border Zone.
- Vulcan: Send Winterwind (Centaur-A) and Sappho (Constellation) to "Licori".
Andor: Send Docana (Constellation) and Calypso (Miranda) to "Licori".
- Tellar: Send Lightning (Centaur-A) and Stalwart (Constellation) to "Licori"
- Amarkia: Send Blizzard (Centaur-A) and Thunderhead (Miranda) to "Licori"
- Ferasa: Send Hood (Consitution-B) to "Licori"
- Rigel: Send Oberth (Suvek)
- Apinae: No change (too far away)
- RBZ: Send Excelsior (Excelsior) and Oberth (Hawking) to "Licori"
- KBZ: Send Thirishar (Excelsior) and Oberth (Inspire) to "Licori"
- CBZ: Send T'Mir (Oberth)
- SBZ: Send Endurance (Excelsior). Replace with Selaya.
- 3 Excelsiors
- 1 Renaissance
- 1 Constitution-B
- 3 Centaur-As
- 3 Constellations
- 2 Mirandas
- 3 Oberths
In Q1 anticipate being able to add 1 Excelsior. In Q2, 2 more Excelsiors.
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- Location
- Patriarchova
The Licori fleet is stronger than I expected, with their pair of Excelsior-equivalent capships. Looks like we'll need to send a big fleet after all.
We didn't actually start this war. The Licori did when they disabled the Sappho and Courageous killing numerous starfleet officers, and launched a cosmic string (functionally an undetectable, superfast moving asteroid) into one of our densely inhabited sectors. Unprovoked. On two separate occasions. They've done more damage to us than the Sydraxians ever did.
We didn't actually start this war. The Licori did when they disabled the Sappho and Courageous killing numerous starfleet officers, and launched a cosmic string (functionally an undetectable, superfast moving asteroid) into one of our densely inhabited sectors. Unprovoked. On two separate occasions. They've done more damage to us than the Sydraxians ever did.
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I would also make sure to ask for a free LBZ with discretionary requirement, or alternately with science requirement instead of defense. e: mechanically, this keeps mentat events more confined than home sectors do, and lets us apply FD
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Also @Briefvoice I believe that half garrison is High Alert levels rather than SOE.
By the way, here are the Licori Cruiser and Frigate stats from the battle with the Gaeni:
AHS Valiant - Combat 4.85/5, Shield 3.61/40, Hull 19.38/20 - Crew 3-4-1/3-4-2 - Ships killed: 0 - Status: Retreated
AHS Gammon - Combat 1.23/3, Shield 0.00/20, Hull 4.11/10 - Crew 0-0-0/1-2-2 - Ships killed: 0 - Status: Crew Kill
Cruisers appear to be Combat 5, Shield 4, Hull 2.
Frigates appear to be Combat 3, Shield 2, Hull 1.
AHS Valiant - Combat 4.85/5, Shield 3.61/40, Hull 19.38/20 - Crew 3-4-1/3-4-2 - Ships killed: 0 - Status: Retreated
AHS Gammon - Combat 1.23/3, Shield 0.00/20, Hull 4.11/10 - Crew 0-0-0/1-2-2 - Ships killed: 0 - Status: Crew Kill
Cruisers appear to be Combat 5, Shield 4, Hull 2.
Frigates appear to be Combat 3, Shield 2, Hull 1.
I disagree. We hadn't even begun to exort diplomatic pressure on the Licori or properly investigate them (hell I find it pretty telling that we get the intelligence briefing after one of our quasi member starts a war... ) so in my opinion there would have been a number of options we could have explored first.
Also even if we accept that military action was the only possible way to deal with them I don't think that it would have hurt to for some time till he GBZ/Cardassian border has become a bit more stable and, perhaps more importantly, the first wave of Rennie's would have become avaible (and that would still ignore the question of roma/klingons). There is very little reason to expect that the Licori would engage in knowingly hostile actions against us so I really don't see why they need to do this shit now...
A two front war was never a good idea and I don't think it is now...
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@Briefvoice I really don't like stripping the RBZ and KBZ, but otherwise looks good.
UESPA will have an excellent chance to show up those snobby Starfleet punks though!
UESPA will have an excellent chance to show up those snobby Starfleet punks though!
- Location
- Patriarchova
This is good, but I'd also like to send the A'Tuin or another nearby 5YM ship. Our fleet to counter their fleet, and our wacky protagonist hijinks to counter their mentat superweapons.
With regards to tactics, I'd also stress the importance of multiple attack vectors. We don't want to clump our fleet together in one spot where a superweapon can take it all out.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So burn through is going to really do a number, especially on those frigates.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
So to break down the Licori fleet:
2 Explorers:
We have nothing on these, so hard to speculate. Based on what we see of their design philosophy, I'd bet high C, med L, low H. Something like a C6-H3-L5
5 Cruisers:
The one we saw was a C5-H2-L4, so basically a flimsier Connie-Bee.
12-20 Frigates
The one escort we saw was a C3-H1-L2, so equal to a stock Miranda. Not terribly threatening by itself, but could be nasty in a group. There's also mention of a large frigate used as a flagship by smaller houses maybe like a C3-H2-L3, and a throwaway 350kt design similar to a Yrillian Corsair, which I recall was something like a C2-H1-L1.
So a speculative breakdown for their fleet would be something like 2 Explorer, 5 light Cruiser, 5 heavy frigate, 5 medium frigate, 5-10 light frigate, making about 70-90 C, 35-40 H, 60-70 L. Highly speculative, but seems reasonable for a medium power that's been on war footing for a long time.
The Gaeni have C40, with ships favoring high shield and medium hull. They are definitely outgunned on their own.
We rather desperately need information on the Ked Paddah fleet size and disposition. They've got to be somewhat equal to the Licori, given they've managed to capture a colony recently, unless the Licori noble houses hadn't been drafted until then, which seems unlikely.
What we need for this is a high Diplo commander, given there are going to be three separate fleets against the Licori plus however many member fleets we call on. Coordination with the Gaeni and Ked Paddah is key.
2 Explorers:
We have nothing on these, so hard to speculate. Based on what we see of their design philosophy, I'd bet high C, med L, low H. Something like a C6-H3-L5
5 Cruisers:
The one we saw was a C5-H2-L4, so basically a flimsier Connie-Bee.
12-20 Frigates
The one escort we saw was a C3-H1-L2, so equal to a stock Miranda. Not terribly threatening by itself, but could be nasty in a group. There's also mention of a large frigate used as a flagship by smaller houses maybe like a C3-H2-L3, and a throwaway 350kt design similar to a Yrillian Corsair, which I recall was something like a C2-H1-L1.
So a speculative breakdown for their fleet would be something like 2 Explorer, 5 light Cruiser, 5 heavy frigate, 5 medium frigate, 5-10 light frigate, making about 70-90 C, 35-40 H, 60-70 L. Highly speculative, but seems reasonable for a medium power that's been on war footing for a long time.
The Gaeni have C40, with ships favoring high shield and medium hull. They are definitely outgunned on their own.
We rather desperately need information on the Ked Paddah fleet size and disposition. They've got to be somewhat equal to the Licori, given they've managed to capture a colony recently, unless the Licori noble houses hadn't been drafted until then, which seems unlikely.
What we need for this is a high Diplo commander, given there are going to be three separate fleets against the Licori plus however many member fleets we call on. Coordination with the Gaeni and Ked Paddah is key.
Well it doesn't matter. The politicians have decided, and we're stuck with that. So how about less talk about how we shouldn't be in the situation and more ideas about how to win? Telling the President we're going to send "an Explorer" is a way to get canned. They want to know how we're going to win.
- Location
- Germany
Some thoughts on the advise:
Maybe this is obvious, but we should definitely talk to the Ked Paddah and try to coordinate operations with them. (If they are interested, that is.)
We also need to tell the Romulans about what we are doing, at least in general terms. They are likely to get antsy when they see ~54 C coming their way.
Maybe this is obvious, but we should definitely talk to the Ked Paddah and try to coordinate operations with them. (If they are interested, that is.)
We also need to tell the Romulans about what we are doing, at least in general terms. They are likely to get antsy when they see ~54 C coming their way.
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
As I said before - I don't think that we have so far established that a) the Mentat was actually under the control of the Licori government and not a rogue agent b) I don't think the Licori have had the intention to hurt us/attack us.
I mean for god's sake we still haven't started a war with the Cardassians despite them actively opposing us (and if we ignore time shenanigans - destroying one of our Explorers without any provication) and the Licori clearly seem far less (openly) hostile.
We also arranged for a peace between Dawiar and caitans despite some serious bad blood/events there and a legitimate reason to join the war...
I am not saying that the war is not (somewhat) justfied but we had a number of cases where we had similarly good reasons and didn't start a war. (And that is before we consider the current make-up of the council and international situation)
I think a lesson to learn from GBZ is that while high aggression and nerve can do wonders, diplomacy is also vital for any commander who has to coordinate with either Member Fleets or allies.
[X][OPS] Reorganise Starfleet Operations (10pp)
Briefvoice's plan looks good. I'll probably vote for it after it's refined by a bit more discussion.
[X][OPS] Reorganise Starfleet Operations (10pp)
Briefvoice's plan looks good. I'll probably vote for it after it's refined by a bit more discussion.
[ ][ADVICE] Advise the President
-[] The strategic objective is to end dangerous mentat use. Mentats are controlled by the individual houses, so we must move quickly the houses themselves while avoiding or neutralizing Imperial forces. Tactically, the more forces we can muster, the faster we can prevent the deployment of desperate superweapons or mutually-destructive tactics, which will not only affect battles but can also threaten Federation civilians.
-[] Therefore, Starfleet can provide as many as three Excelsiors, five cruisers, five frigates, and three science ships, if we are allowed to draw garrisons to high alert levels. This would form the nucleus of two or more fleets after adding ships from UE, Betazed, Vulcan, and Rigel. The Rigellans in particular have ships that are well-suited to detecting and surviving incidents. Contributions from Andor and Tellar would also be welcome. Members who are...less enthusiastic could send pickets or science ships. Farther spinward, our members have other borders to worry about.
-[] A Licori Border Zone would help detect and contain dangerous mentat incidents before they can affect our homeworlds near the border.
-[] We would also ask to be allowed to operate two or more Explorer Corps ships within the Licori frontier and keep them there until the situation is resolved. The EC have the greatest experience dealing with these dangerous super-science incidents.
Something like that?
-[] The strategic objective is to end dangerous mentat use. Mentats are controlled by the individual houses, so we must move quickly the houses themselves while avoiding or neutralizing Imperial forces. Tactically, the more forces we can muster, the faster we can prevent the deployment of desperate superweapons or mutually-destructive tactics, which will not only affect battles but can also threaten Federation civilians.
-[] Therefore, Starfleet can provide as many as three Excelsiors, five cruisers, five frigates, and three science ships, if we are allowed to draw garrisons to high alert levels. This would form the nucleus of two or more fleets after adding ships from UE, Betazed, Vulcan, and Rigel. The Rigellans in particular have ships that are well-suited to detecting and surviving incidents. Contributions from Andor and Tellar would also be welcome. Members who are...less enthusiastic could send pickets or science ships. Farther spinward, our members have other borders to worry about.
-[] A Licori Border Zone would help detect and contain dangerous mentat incidents before they can affect our homeworlds near the border.
-[] We would also ask to be allowed to operate two or more Explorer Corps ships within the Licori frontier and keep them there until the situation is resolved. The EC have the greatest experience dealing with these dangerous super-science incidents.
Something like that?
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- Location
- Canada
This. My understanding is that, during an actual SOE, we can ignore garrison levels, with no cost except in terms of anything terrible that might happen to those places while the fleet's away.
That said... this is really awful timing. Ideally, I'd want to sit this one out entirely, and let the KP+Gaeni fight it out. Alternatively, I'd look at a map, and then discreetly pass word to the Romulan Ambassador that the Licori would probably be best off as a Romulan client, where their dangerous tendencies can be kept in check via the use of measures which we ourselves are reluctant to take.
If we are getting into the war, I'd ideally like our position to be less offensive, and more oriented around backstopping our allies. The KP, Gaeni, and Licori are all, theoretically, peers, so this should already be a fight the Licori cannot win. The only problem is that the Licori don't fight 'fair'; in a war to the knife, they're likely to pull out a really terrifying superweapon at some horrific cost to everything and everyone around them.
Which is, and I would want to specifically include this point in any advice we do give the President, precisely the reason why pushing the Licori on this point is dangerous; their military capabilities are insignificant compared to the threat they pose via unknown superscientific weapons.
That being said, if the Federation has decided it wants this to be a war, the Federation had better take it seriously. If we are planning to defeat the Licori and prevent them from doing those things that scare us, we need to go in expecting an existential threat, because they have already demonstrated that they have that kind of capability. Against any argumentation on that point, have Astrometrics compile a list of aging stars in the area, and the blast radius should any of them be induced to go supernova via application of already-demonstrated Licori capabilities. Given that level of threat, I would insist that a state of war between the Federation and the Licori constitutes a State of Emergency, and that if we do not take the appropriate precautions (including the full mobilization and support of the Federation's scientific establishments in countering Licori superweapons), we can expect wildly disproportionate losses.
Well I would formulate it as a question - if she wants heavy Starfleet support we will have to either drastically reduce our operations in the GBZ (at a time where we should maximise our success) or drastically lower the "garrison" of the sectors which is also somewhat inadvisable since there is still the threat of yirillian pirates, the possible instability of the Seyek as well as the general possibility of an rom/Klingon conflict or the Cardassians trying to take an advantage.
If she wants to take that risk we will comply but otherwise the majority of the fleet will have to come from the member worlds, ideally the ones not bordering card(clients) which doesn't leave that many options if I remember correctly.
EDIT: Granted my my worry about depleting the garrison is that it leaves us no strategic reserve in case the Klingons attack us (and would thus cause a three front war) but while such a thing makes sense to me from an IC perspective I doubt Oneirous will go for it since it would be quite unfair, especially since we have little agency over starting this conflict...
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