To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
- Location
- USA
@Briefvoice love the omake and a different viewpoint into the Rogers Admiralty. I do like the bits that touched on how close we were to war at some points. On a personal level I disagree with the buffer states, getting them integrated into the Federation leads to more resources in general due to trade and mutual support. It has also lead to a huge boom in terms of our research capability.
Okay, I edited it to read "first Commander after the Cartwright Conspiracy". It's still possible someone could read it and come away with the impression Cartwright was Commander, but that just makes it a misleading article in-universe.
And I hope everyone realizes that this was Rogers being somewhat self-serving and spinning things in the best possible light for himself, excusing things he can't explain away. Which doesn't make him a liar, of course. It's all true from his own point of view.
- Location
- USA
Oh I got that, like the bit on how he tried to tie into Kahurangi success into his doing well in putting Starfleet back together. And it does sound like at the start he got the ship righted, but then he got too aggressive. Also I think in some ways he hates Kahurangi. She oversaw a massive expansion of Starfleet, and actually got to run an actual State of Emergency that even the Pacifists agreed with against the biophage, was able to engage and attack the Syndicate, and she and Sousa have been able to fight a limited war with the Cardassians along with putting the Renissance and Connie-B into production as a combat cruiser, which is a better Ares. And the people love Kahurangi.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
"Khitomer" is already used as a shorthand/metonym for the politically more significant set of diplomatic accords. "Khitomer Conspiracy" works, but then so does "Cartwright Conspiracy."
Yeah. I mean, he kind of deflects the point that, as I mentioned earlier, that we could have had a highly active, effective Constitution-B fleet that would have done an admirable job securing the frontiers up through the 2320s. It'd probably even have been a lot cheaper than the ConnieBee program we wound up enacting, because we wouldn't have to rebuild all the ships from scratch. But no, not to be, because he HAD to try and squeeze the Excelsior's performance into a platform 80% the size with the benefit of only a single decade of technological advancement.
And he says "I just dipped into the spare parts reserve for Excelsiors," but he doesn't own up to the fact that we probably could have had two Excelsior berths and Kumari starting construction rather earlier if he'd taken the same political oomph he put behind Ares and put it behind Excelsiors instead.
...Although come to think of it, that would explain why the two-megaton berth at Utopia Planitia is such a cheap option, even cheaper than setting up one-megaton berths in some locations, and why it's the only place in the Federation we can build one.
We're not building a new facility, we're reactivating an old one that was decommissioned at the end of Rogers' term. The political cost is because a lot of Councilors associate that berth with the Ares program, not because it would actually take significant effort to get it up and running again.
I don't see Rogers as being especially bitter, although that could just be him being a good politician.
He probably looks at the Biophage and goes "that should have been me in the chair, dammit, I'd have shown them all what I could do." And he might not even be wrong (assuming he didn't wind up doing something dumb like deciding to attack the Romulans after the Cheron bombing). On the other hand, the Biophage may well have rattled him into realizing that maybe his vision of Starfleet actually was a bit limited, since it was the scientific and diplomatic assets of Starfleet that made the decisive difference by bringing us together with the Romulans and Klingons, and by developing the vaccine.
I can imagine Rogers as a bitter, broken man in 2301-2, lost in his own despair, who starts following the news more and more as the Biophage crisis drew out, and then realizes that dammit, Jim was right about Starfleet's mission. And that even if Kahurangi and the new crew were making some choices he didn't agree with, they were being true to what Starfleet was about, just as much as he had. And that it's after that that he starts seriously thinking about a second career, going into politics, and so on.
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She also resigned on him. Sousa too, but Sousa stuck a little longer. So there's probably a perception from him that she was one of those who abandoned his Starfleet.
Also, frankly, some of the things he says in the interview are probably bald-faced lies.
- Location
- USA
On top of that one of our earliest actions was expanding the shipyards to the other member systems including Excelsior berths. Also a bit of self serving is the excuse on the poor science of the Ares, while it is our good science from Excelsiors and the 5YM in particular that allows us to build 2 Excelsiors a year plus other ships."Khitomer" is already used as a shorthand/metonym for the politically more significant set of diplomatic accords. "Khitomer Conspiracy" works, but then so does "Cartwright Conspiracy."
Yeah. I mean, he kind of deflects the point that, as I mentioned earlier, that we could have had a highly active, effective Constitution-B fleet that would have done an admirable job securing the frontiers up through the 2320s. It'd probably even have been a lot cheaper than the ConnieBee program we wound up enacting, because we wouldn't have to rebuild all the ships from scratch. But no, not to be, because he HAD to try and squeeze the Excelsior's performance into a platform 80% the size with the benefit of only a single decade of technological advancement.
And he says "I just dipped into the spare parts reserve for Excelsiors," but he doesn't own up to the fact that we probably could have had two Excelsior berths and Kumari starting construction rather earlier if he'd taken the same political oomph he put behind Ares and put it behind Excelsiors instead.
...Although come to think of it, that would explain why the two-megaton berth at Utopia Planitia is such a cheap option, even cheaper than setting up one-megaton berths in some locations, and why it's the only place in the Federation we can build one. We're not building a new facility, we're reactivating an old one that was decommissioned at the end of Rogers' term. The pp cost is because a lot of Councilors associate that berth with the Ares program, not because it would actually take significant effort to get it up and running again.
- Location
- Australia
I'll do my best to remember that!
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah, I'd bet on that. "Oh gee, NOW you want back in after I've gone down in flames trying to fix things and rebuild the organization!"
They all fit with the other facts known to us, and most of them are easily checkable or soon will be (e.g. Kirk having given a speech to the Council right after Khitomer defending Starfleet's continued existence). I suspect that he's doing more exaggeration and shading of the truth than outright lying.
Oh, I quite agree- if Rogers had taken the political will he presumably spent starting the Ares project and getting its two-megaton berth started on, say, a Excelsior berth at Vulcan and a budget increase, we would probably have had five explorers at game start an six by the time the Biophage broke out, rather than four and five, respectively. We might have been able to reach five five-year missions by 2305, even.
His big excuse there is pretty clearly that he thought he could refit the Ares-class to an acceptable standard of sensor and scientific performance later. Which is more or less exactly what we wound up doing with the Centaur-A- and I strongly suspect that the Centaur was a Rogers-era project too, given that we only had two of the things when we took office.
Honestly, I think you really can make a case for the Ares as the cruiser "big sister" to the Centaur-class escort, intended as a direct successor to the Constitutions and Constellations, the same way the Centaurs were a direct successor to the Mirandas and a replacement for the Soyuzes.
He's not saying Starfleet ships shouldn't have good science suites; he's saying that he screwed up development of this specific ship class, and allowed others to screw it up along with him, such that the science capability would have to be retrofitted in later. He may be fooling himself but it's not total insanity, and again that is exactly what we wound up doing with the Centaurs.
2314.Q2.M2 - Council Session
- Location
- Australia
Starfleet Attache Offices, Paris, Sol III, Sol Sector
You settle into your chair feeling a little grumpy with some of the push-back you are getting. For example, you spent the last few days in San Francisco consulting command heads. Linderley's reaction to the idea of Yrillian starships plying Starfleet's logistics routes is only just short of hysteria. He points out, with some justification, that Starfleet Intelligence derives much of their information about Union activity in the Gabriel by signal intercepting their manifests, and that simply handing whole cargos to the Yrillians opens up considerable insight into those parts of its programs that Starfleet likes to lie-by-omission about. Vice Admiral Sulu is cautiously optimistic about the ability of his more unconventional assets to move and work in Yrillian and Sydraxian space, but is pessimistic about our ability to stop outside agents from doing the same.
Starfleet Logistics likes it, though, so that's something.
The Expansionists are ... well, better than lukewarm, but not quite enthusiastic. A backdoor approach to gaining a new affiliate, and prying one away from the Cardassians, is a popular move there. The Development faction has had deeply mixed reactions. Some of them are focusing on the easing of pressure on the networks, but a lot of them are viewing this as Starfleet trying to abdicate its responsibility to maintain its own logistics by stealth. Perhaps you can draw a few votes from there if you approach the right people with the right projects. The Pacifists are ... truth be told, they are utterly ambivalent. You can get them on board, but you'll be bartering full price for their cooperation.
You experience with Councillor Korielis is a little more alarming, with a perplexing smile as he tells you the chance of getting the Hawks support on this is statistically negligible. Vice Admiral Uhura helps translate the Amarkian body language for you: if you had been Amarkian as well, he probably would have offered a duel, and you should be glad he cannot meaningfully affect your employment on his own.
On the plus side, the Mercantilists have settled into the prospect quite happily. Between their four and the expansionists nine, you have thirteen votes of the twenty-three you need to get the project in play. So you need to get the Pacifists or the Developers onside.
Your efforts reaching out to the powerbrokers of the two factions leave you dealing with two Vulcans. Not ideal for making emotional appeals! Instead you get green-blooded take-it-or-leave-it offers. Development proposals are straightforward: fortify the logistical network, increase your auxiliary shipyard capacity, and any new mining colony sites located outside of the GBZ for the next three years are assigned to the nearest member worlds. The Pacifists are a little more pork-barrel inclined: develop a differently spec'd Constellation refit, work to improve Pacifist member worlds.
You mourn for the lack of fire, passion, the high-flying majesty of vision. But this is Council, and sometimes you just have to make a sausage and hope people aren't watching how ugly it all is.
-
[ ] Retract the proposals (0pp)
[ ] Accept the Development Proposal (Earmarks 100pp)
-Establish Starbase at Leas Akaam
-Establish Starbase at Ord Grind Duk
-Expand Auxiliary Shipyard with one 2mt berth and one 1mt berth
-New Auxiliary Shipyard to be built at Indoria with 2x2mt Berths
-Any new mining candidate outside of the GBZ over the next 3 years will be assigned to nearest member world
[ ] Accept the Pacifist Proposal (Earmarks 100pp)
-New Member World 3mt berth to be built at Chelok-An (Vulcan)
-New Member World 1mt berth to be built at Rixx Loxhanda DY (Betazed)
-New Nacelle Assembly Facility to be built at Sar Alpha
-New Starbase at New Seoul
-New Pacifist Spec Constellation refit [+2 S, +1 P,L,D, for 25br 25sr, 4 turns, new unit cost of 70/50]
You settle into your chair feeling a little grumpy with some of the push-back you are getting. For example, you spent the last few days in San Francisco consulting command heads. Linderley's reaction to the idea of Yrillian starships plying Starfleet's logistics routes is only just short of hysteria. He points out, with some justification, that Starfleet Intelligence derives much of their information about Union activity in the Gabriel by signal intercepting their manifests, and that simply handing whole cargos to the Yrillians opens up considerable insight into those parts of its programs that Starfleet likes to lie-by-omission about. Vice Admiral Sulu is cautiously optimistic about the ability of his more unconventional assets to move and work in Yrillian and Sydraxian space, but is pessimistic about our ability to stop outside agents from doing the same.
Starfleet Logistics likes it, though, so that's something.
The Expansionists are ... well, better than lukewarm, but not quite enthusiastic. A backdoor approach to gaining a new affiliate, and prying one away from the Cardassians, is a popular move there. The Development faction has had deeply mixed reactions. Some of them are focusing on the easing of pressure on the networks, but a lot of them are viewing this as Starfleet trying to abdicate its responsibility to maintain its own logistics by stealth. Perhaps you can draw a few votes from there if you approach the right people with the right projects. The Pacifists are ... truth be told, they are utterly ambivalent. You can get them on board, but you'll be bartering full price for their cooperation.
You experience with Councillor Korielis is a little more alarming, with a perplexing smile as he tells you the chance of getting the Hawks support on this is statistically negligible. Vice Admiral Uhura helps translate the Amarkian body language for you: if you had been Amarkian as well, he probably would have offered a duel, and you should be glad he cannot meaningfully affect your employment on his own.
On the plus side, the Mercantilists have settled into the prospect quite happily. Between their four and the expansionists nine, you have thirteen votes of the twenty-three you need to get the project in play. So you need to get the Pacifists or the Developers onside.
Your efforts reaching out to the powerbrokers of the two factions leave you dealing with two Vulcans. Not ideal for making emotional appeals! Instead you get green-blooded take-it-or-leave-it offers. Development proposals are straightforward: fortify the logistical network, increase your auxiliary shipyard capacity, and any new mining colony sites located outside of the GBZ for the next three years are assigned to the nearest member worlds. The Pacifists are a little more pork-barrel inclined: develop a differently spec'd Constellation refit, work to improve Pacifist member worlds.
You mourn for the lack of fire, passion, the high-flying majesty of vision. But this is Council, and sometimes you just have to make a sausage and hope people aren't watching how ugly it all is.
-
[ ] Retract the proposals (0pp)
[ ] Accept the Development Proposal (Earmarks 100pp)
-Establish Starbase at Leas Akaam
-Establish Starbase at Ord Grind Duk
-Expand Auxiliary Shipyard with one 2mt berth and one 1mt berth
-New Auxiliary Shipyard to be built at Indoria with 2x2mt Berths
-Any new mining candidate outside of the GBZ over the next 3 years will be assigned to nearest member world
[ ] Accept the Pacifist Proposal (Earmarks 100pp)
-New Member World 3mt berth to be built at Chelok-An (Vulcan)
-New Member World 1mt berth to be built at Rixx Loxhanda DY (Betazed)
-New Nacelle Assembly Facility to be built at Sar Alpha
-New Starbase at New Seoul
-New Pacifist Spec Constellation refit [+2 S, +1 P,L,D, for 25br 25sr, 4 turns, new unit cost of 70/50]
- Location
- United States
[X] Retract the proposals (0pp)
between the political cost and the dislike of the proposal by our intelligence commander, i just dont think its worth it.
we cant take the development one because of the mining world demand and the pacifist one is just kinda really sucks.
between the political cost and the dislike of the proposal by our intelligence commander, i just dont think its worth it.
we cant take the development one because of the mining world demand and the pacifist one is just kinda really sucks.
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NO WANT! Bad, Bad, Bad.
[X] Accept the Pacifist Proposal (Earmarks 100pp)
I don't care if Retract or Pacifist wins, but the Development condition is right out for me.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I'll hold off on voting until someone from the SBD chimes in on the expense and/or feasibility of that refit.
- Location
- Austin, TX
[X] Accept the Pacifist Proposal (Earmarks 100pp)
