Only three of us voted for Kanil?
Wasn't that a battle he fought against the Romulans?
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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Only three of us voted for Kanil?
Wasn't that a battle he fought against the Romulans?
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- Patriarchova
Good points.
I still don't like that it costs nearly as much as a Rennie, though. It saves crew, which is our biggest limiter, but still, it's expensive for a frigate.
I still don't like that it costs nearly as much as a Rennie, though. It saves crew, which is our biggest limiter, but still, it's expensive for a frigate.
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
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- Seattle, WA
Given we don't project a critical need for a new escort compared to a new Explorer (in progress) and a new science ship (under serious discussion and early planning), I'd wait to suggest specific new escort designs until we think we are ready to push forward with one.
That said, it is a good snapshot of what we might be able to do now/soon, and the discussion of what we want to do with escorts next will be a good one to look into.
Unified escort, prioritize garrison escort, and prioritize combat escort are all things that could be argued for.
That said, it is a good snapshot of what we might be able to do now/soon, and the discussion of what we want to do with escorts next will be a good one to look into.
Unified escort, prioritize garrison escort, and prioritize combat escort are all things that could be argued for.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
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It's an incredibly nasty piece of work in wartime from a C cap perspective. C cap wise 5 of those things take up as much as 3 Rennies and badly outclass them.
It's also silly survivable for a frigate. A Miranda dies before this thing loses shields.
- Location
- Panama City
...it costs the exact same as the canon New Orleans.
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- Australia
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/8004381/ <-- I've updated the Tactical Ops post with the Science Frigate.
Night
Widow Null
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- Hoff
It was a battle against the Romulans yes, and I suppose it's possible he was there, but it was also a holosuite program that Quark had to summon Odo to get him out of during Blood Oath.
Interesting! A whole new set of constraints for the design thread to play with.
- Location
- Patriarchova
The canon New Orleans stats we were given are a joke for their price.
This version IS worth the cost, but that cost is still high enough that you can argue we'd be better off just building a cruiser.
We might get some techs that reduce the price in the next few years, or find an SR windfall. In the meantime though, I'm really not sold on this.
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- Mid-Atlantic
ATTENTION SHIP SPREADSHEETEERS:
I think it might be a good idea if someone tried to show some 'econo-escort' designs to illustrate the likely performance gap between a next generation escort designed to have low costs (e.g. 60-70br, 45-55sr), and a next generation escort designed like the Kepler or this notional... whatever-class-it-is.
I think it would be easier to swallow the "higher than a Centaur-A" price tag if we saw what it was competing against.
We're talking about large escorts in the 800-900 kiloton range; they're going to be about as expensive from a material resource point of view as a 1000-kiloton cruiser. The Mirandas are cheaper, but they are also smaller and less capable. If we design a next generation escort along the lines of the Miranda, its stats won't be good enough to explain why we're building it as an alternative to existing ship classes- why design a whole new ship class just to save a few hundred SR by cramming Centaur-A performance into a Miranda-sized hull?
I think it might be a good idea if someone tried to show some 'econo-escort' designs to illustrate the likely performance gap between a next generation escort designed to have low costs (e.g. 60-70br, 45-55sr), and a next generation escort designed like the Kepler or this notional... whatever-class-it-is.
I think it would be easier to swallow the "higher than a Centaur-A" price tag if we saw what it was competing against.
The problem is that material costs of a ship scale roughly with its size. The only way to make an escort cheap is to make it small, and small size results in low capability.
We're talking about large escorts in the 800-900 kiloton range; they're going to be about as expensive from a material resource point of view as a 1000-kiloton cruiser. The Mirandas are cheaper, but they are also smaller and less capable. If we design a next generation escort along the lines of the Miranda, its stats won't be good enough to explain why we're building it as an alternative to existing ship classes- why design a whole new ship class just to save a few hundred SR by cramming Centaur-A performance into a Miranda-sized hull?
Chad has a really good bonus, I think you may be underestimating just how powerful "faster XP gain" really is. Kanil is a good candidate and is likely to be picked up soon, but this is the first year she was available for consideration. It's relatively rare for a candidate to be picked the first year they appear on the list, so far, because people tend to promise themselves "next year, I'll vote for that one!"
The Rennie's performance is better but at the cost of massively inflated crew requirements, and the Rennie's Combat 5 stat is as much a curse as a blessing in the context this ship is designed for (where we are at or near our combat cap).
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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Cost isn't as important as we find ourselves heading for an environment in which we will be building much fewer ships. Like, it's not unreasonable that by the early 2320s we only have enough combat cap room to slowly expand the EC and build perhaps 1-2 new ships per year, unless we can afford to spend 90pp a year and bring in new members yearly. An environment in which we have limitations on number of hulls is one in which it is worth paying a highly inflated resource price for the best possible ship.
I know, I saw the episode.
I am a little worried about if the game mechanics will hold up when we actually hit the combat cap. We could swiftly find ourselves drowning in far more crew and BR/SR than we can use, forcing a deliberate reduction in Academy size and Starfleet budget.
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
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I'll be honest, I didn't even glance at the bonuses, I chose T'Rinta because I'd had an eye on her progress for a while and wanted to give her a chance last 5YM but couldn't, and I chose Demora cus I like her and I want to see what she'd be like as a protagonist.
We aren't giving you these designs because acceptable designs don't exist within those constraints.
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- Mid-Atlantic
Yes; I get that this is your argument, but I'm asking if there's any way you can show us cheap escorts anyway. I understand that you don't think cheap escorts are worthwhile because [reasons], but do any designs along those lines even exist? using the current spreadsheet? Or has all the effort gone into designing escorts in the 800-900 kiloton range? If so, why?
Because people who are asking for resource-cheap escorts are essentially asking for small escorts. Maybe the problem is that there's some unknown or unforeseen problem with making the escorts small (and therefore cheap)... but if so, keeping us in the dark about the nature of that problem isn't doing us any favors.
This is a bit ambiguous, and I would like to ask for clarification.
Do you mean "it is literally impossible to design resource-cheap escorts?" Or do you mean "we could totally design resource-cheap escorts but we just don't feel like it for reasons of our own that you might not share?" Or do you mean "we can design resource-cheap escorts but they'd be so shoddy and inferior that no one would want to build them?" Or do you mean something else?
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I'm not an experienced designer but staying within the current limitations of a Combat Frigate:
The best I've managed so far is:
C3 S1 H3 L4 P1 D4 - 80br 55sr - 756kt 2.5 years - O1/E3/T2
Compare to the New New Orleans design:3C 3S 4H 5L 3P 3D for 85BR 80SR and O1 E3 T2
it's -2S, -1H, -1L, -2P, +1D for -5br and -25sr.While I'm sure others, like SWB, could do better I found it almost impossible to get the design down under 60sr. I had to strip almost everything from the ship to get the SR requirements that low. To emphasize by going up to 60sr I can easily get:
C3 S1 H4 L5 P1 D4 - 80br - 60sr - O1/E3/T2
That's +1H and +1L for just 5sr. With some finagling I could probably squeeze in +1S as well with changing the cost.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
I suppose there's no chance of getting something like the Saber then? Personally, I'd like our next gen escort to be roughly the same statwise as a Centaur but considerably cheaper. But from what people are saying that sounds unworkable.
- Location
- Panama City
I'm not even sure HOW the saber is getting at least all 2s at only 300kt-I think it's only possible because those stats have never been updated for the new sheet, because if it was I'm sure the ship would double in size at least.
Maybe it's Future Tech? The Saber design only enters service in 2360 and even accounting for research and prototyping time that is still something like forty years of research.
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Later, I would like to update the Science Escort requirements to allow for C3, so that our Keplers have some bite to them.
Currently, we will take almost any ship we can build.
Assuming no major losses, and no growth in the combat cap, in roughly 10 years, we will be looking to replace ships with high everything except C, no matter the material/crew costs.
These are nice designs, but there is no urgency in deploying them - yet.
Either that, are we keep building, and earmark 60pp every year to buy off the Council.
Assuming no major losses, and no growth in the combat cap, in roughly 10 years, we will be looking to replace ships with high everything except C, no matter the material/crew costs.
These are nice designs, but there is no urgency in deploying them - yet.
Either that, are we keep building, and earmark 60pp every year to buy off the Council.
The Miranda-A is about the best you can get for 60 br and 45 sr. Like, I was able to replicate it, but only just.
We'd need a modification of our combat frigate requirements, but on a 600kt hull I can get you this:
C4 S2 H4 L3 P1 D3 - 65br 50sr - 649kt 2yr - O1 E3 T2
I feel this ship is trash bin trash, but it is nominally an upgrade to the M-A. e: Also it's on the edge of the militarization formula, which usually means militarization per hull after the sniff test.
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aledeth
The Flesh is Weak
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I'm entirely OK with that restriction myself. Starfleet's big red sign saying 'Science Frigates are not for Shootybangs' is hardly an onerous requirement.