What ground forces? There's not enough transport capacity around to conquer a world. If you hold the orbit and demand surrender, and don't get one, you either start using the orbital bombardment, sent specialists for key locations/personnel, or go home.
Um, the entire Orion plotline disagrees. Armies are very much a thing, because ortillery is not reliably able to take out ground troops without destroying what you wanted to seize in the first plance.
It shouldn't be too hard to build troopships with carrying capacity on the order of ten thousand soldiers in TBG; you could launch a pretty large invasion army. They'd still be very, very outnumbered by the opposition on the ground, though, IF the opposition on the ground is united and IF the planetary population is in the billions as you might expect from an Earthlike planet at or near carrying capacity.
Earthlike planets at or near carrying capacity seem to be homeworlds, and only homeworlds.
 
The Orion case is a bit ambiguous because they've had numerous planets settled for a LONG time. Most other species can't say the same.
 
On population, the clearest look we've ever gotten was in the Status of the Orion Syndicate Campaign post.

Orion Union Worlds
World - Population - Level of Corruption
Alukk - 20 - Extreme
Celos - 10 - High
Akola - 8 - Medium
Duaba - 7 - Extreme
Broken Chains - 6 - Low
Bradia - 4 - Extreme
Freedom - 4 - High
New Rigel - 4 - High
Nor'Orion - 3 - Medium
Qinal - 3 - High
Yavacia - 3 - Medium
Jagrava - 2 - Medium
Amepa - 2 - High
Shirjat - 2 - Medium
Hamilton - 2 - Medium
Xav - 2 - High

It's not clear what exactly those population levels mean, but at Population 10 Celos could be effectively controlled by seizing 3 key cities.
 
It shouldn't be too hard to build troopships with carrying capacity on the order of ten thousand soldiers in TBG; you could launch a pretty large invasion army. They'd still be very, very outnumbered by the opposition on the ground, though, IF the opposition on the ground is united and IF the planetary population is in the billions as you might expect from an Earthlike planet at or near carrying capacity.

You could theoretically store millions in your transporter pattern buffer, but as we all know you're not allowed to use that consistently.
 
Even Celos only had three cities. It was a colony, not a large world. To hold a colony, smaller ground forces are sufficient. And that seems to apply to nearly every world but homeworlds.

Depends on how you define city in this context. I mean, are we talking San Diego? Los Angeles? New York? Saying they only have three New Yorks is rather different from three San Diegos.
 
You could theoretically store millions in your transporter pattern buffer, but as we all know you're not allowed to use that consistently.
Assuming that the buffers are some kind of machine, they presumably have some kind of practical requirement (computing power, electricity, physical space). You'd have to build a system to store millions in a pattern buffer, and it would have to be reliable or you'd come out of your interstellar voyage with millions of sick or crippled infantrymen on your hands. It might well be more practical and a lot simpler/cheaper to just build a bunch of really big troopships.

Depends on how you define city in this context. I mean, are we talking San Diego? Los Angeles? New York? Saying they only have three New Yorks is rather different from three San Diegos.
It may also be that while there is a large population, the key industries and so on are concentrated in a few very large "company town" megacities. Controlling the megacities confers power over the rest of the planet. Unless, of course, you don't have popular support on the rest of the planet... but that wasn't a problem for either the Syndicate or the government forces, at the times they staged their respective offensives.
 
Plus given the Syndicate is rooted in the megacorps, black market and the city nightlife, I doubt there are many rural Syndicate supporters. There's no profit setting up an illegal fighting ring in a little nowhere town. Organized crime tends to concentrate on urban areas, and the Syndicate are likely no exception.
 
Plus given the Syndicate is rooted in the megacorps, black market and the city nightlife, I doubt there are many rural Syndicate supporters. There's no profit setting up an illegal fighting ring in a little nowhere town. Organized crime tends to concentrate on urban areas, and the Syndicate are likely no exception.

On the other hand, modern day Chinese will refer to urban communities of nearly a million as a "town" rather than a "city," simply because they have other cities that make those ones seem like small towns by comparison.

For all we know, "rural" on Celos could just mean that you don't live in one of the three 50 million+ population megacities.
 
Plus, all planets of interest in Star Trek are high-technology, higher than today. Rural populations, as opposed to populations that live in medium-sized towns distributed widely across the planet, may actually be pretty low. The main activities that require distributed rural population are things like farming, resource extraction, and overland transportation- and none of those are big drivers of economic activity in Star Trek.

I imagine that, being waaaay far over on the rural-to-urban population transition, 90% or more of the Orion population lives in something we could reasonably call a 'city' or 'metropolitan area.'
 
In Klingon baseball, hitting a home run (with the fences moved back outward to account for Klingon strength) entitles you to take multiple bases if you so choose, and you can singlehandedly score a point for your team in this way- if you can manage to win three duels in succession.

They sing songs about the baseball warriors who accomplish this feat.

:D
You should see the Klingon Version of Rugby. Now that is one Gentlemanly sport!
 
Plus, all planets of interest in Star Trek are high-technology, higher than today. Rural populations, as opposed to populations that live in medium-sized towns distributed widely across the planet, may actually be pretty low. The main activities that require distributed rural population are things like farming, resource extraction, and overland transportation- and none of those are big drivers of economic activity in Star Trek.

I imagine that, being waaaay far over on the rural-to-urban population transition, 90% or more of the Orion population lives in something we could reasonably call a 'city' or 'metropolitan area.'
On the other hand, with the absurd transportation and telecommuting abilities Star Trek tech brings, there's no reason whatsoever for a preexisting settlement to dry up. So I'd expect there to be a lot of small/medium towns because once you're hooked up to the network/transit background you're within reasonable commuting distance of anywhere on the planet, and probably anywhere in the planet's gravity well.
 
Same deal as previous recent days - vote will close when I get home tonight, around:

As for sports, well, I've mentioned cricket and association football in a UE context, and canonically we know there's still baseball bouncing about, so I suppose it's reasonable that the different nations would still have their own favourite pastimes.


I'm trying to decide whether gladiatorial type football codes (Australian, American/Canadian football, rugby league/union, things of that nature) would perish as anachronisms of a violent past, or survive as the last acceptable outlets.
 
Hm, anyone have an idea what the full statline of a Starbase I or an outpost is?
 
Same deal as previous recent days - vote will close when I get home tonight, around:

As for sports, well, I've mentioned cricket and association football in a UE context, and canonically we know there's still baseball bouncing about, so I suppose it's reasonable that the different nations would still have their own favourite pastimes.

I'm trying to decide whether gladiatorial type football codes (Australian, American/Canadian football, rugby league/union, things of that nature) would perish as anachronisms of a violent past, or survive as the last acceptable outlets.
I don't think United Earth humans have actually become that kind of anti-violent. The existence of a game like Parrises squares (however it works) in the TNG era suggests that no one actually has a problem with the idea of violent sports.

On the other hand, with the absurd transportation and telecommuting abilities Star Trek tech brings, there's no reason whatsoever for a preexisting settlement to dry up. So I'd expect there to be a lot of small/medium towns because once you're hooked up to the network/transit background you're within reasonable commuting distance of anywhere on the planet, and probably anywhere in the planet's gravity well.
Yes; you can live anywhere you want, so there's no reason to be unpleasantly crowded- but there's also no reason to live in a tiny isolated community that is only accessible in a timely manner using supersonic flying cars

On a homeworld, small towns would tend to do a lot of 'drying up' in the local equivalent of the 20th and 21st centuries on Earth, unless deliberately preserved- we know this because it's already happening in real life. By the time transportation advantages make living 100 km from work as practical as living 10 km from work, those little towns have very little going for them relative to a suburb 10-20 km from an urban center.

A lot would depend on the exact balance of work, leisure, and the availability of resources within a given society. But on the whole, while I'm not saying that the logical outcome on a Star Trek planet is for everyone to live in ultra-dense hive-cities or anything... I strongly suspect that people would tend to clump up at least as much as in real life, if not more so. It's simply that they'd tend to clump into large, sprawling, low-density "metropolitan areas," not into gigantic arcologies.
 
The other popular Vulcan sport is Fantasy.
Same deal as previous recent days - vote will close when I get home tonight, around:

As for sports, well, I've mentioned cricket and association football in a UE context, and canonically we know there's still baseball bouncing about, so I suppose it's reasonable that the different nations would still have their own favourite pastimes.


I'm trying to decide whether gladiatorial type football codes (Australian, American/Canadian football, rugby league/union, things of that nature) would perish as anachronisms of a violent past, or survive as the last acceptable outlets.
Personally, I think that they would survive due to advances in safety equipment.

Also, hockey.
 
Yeah; I suspect that permanent sports injuries are a much less serious concern with Star Trek medical technology, to the point where a lot of the long-term risks of full-contact sports (torn tendons, repeated concussions) aren't a problem. That would tend to offset any push away from them owing to the culture as a whole becoming more pacifist.
 
Yes; you can live anywhere you want, so there's no reason to be unpleasantly crowded- but there's also no reason to live in a tiny isolated community that is only accessible in a timely manner using supersonic flying cars

On a homeworld, small towns would tend to do a lot of 'drying up' in the local equivalent of the 20th and 21st centuries on Earth, unless deliberately preserved- we know this because it's already happening in real life. By the time transportation advantages make living 100 km from work as practical as living 10 km from work, those little towns have very little going for them relative to a suburb 10-20 km from an urban center.

A lot would depend on the exact balance of work, leisure, and the availability of resources within a given society. But on the whole, while I'm not saying that the logical outcome on a Star Trek planet is for everyone to live in ultra-dense hive-cities or anything... I strongly suspect that people would tend to clump up at least as much as in real life, if not more so. It's simply that they'd tend to clump into large, sprawling, low-density "metropolitan areas," not into gigantic arcologies.
Ah. I think we're agreeing and not realizing it. I'm from Baltimore, so my definition of small/medium town is probably large town or suburb to people who aren't from a metropolitan area bigger than many countries.

So, yeah, small/medium towns that don't have a good tourist thing going and aren't tied to some kind of installation or university are going to dry up and you'll see more Northeast Megaopolis type areas.
 
I guess what it comes down to is that while a planet like the Orion main worlds no doubt has a rural population, the great majority of the population and wealth are in areas that have a high enough population density to support organized crime.

Moreover, if you look at the overall Orion cultural 'zeitgeist,' as expressed in various omakes...

Remember AKuz's "The Way Things Are Now" post? And how the human and Amarki both thought knights on horseback and such were cool, while the Orion was like 'uh yeah, whatever?' Technological civilization on Orion is old, something like two thousand years deep.

I suspect they've been a post-industrial civilization for so long they don't have a "rural, grassroots" streak in their culture. If there ever was one, it died on the Orion homeworld under Hur'q bombardment. All the Orion worlds now in existence were colonized many centuries ago, literally from the ground up, after Orions had already discovered interstellar travel, and the settlement and economic patterns that emerged on those worlds probably reflect that.

So even if there are plenty of people who actually live in communities we would call 'rural,' they don't necessarily form a separate demographic that's different from the city-dwelling majority in significant ways. They're just city-dwellers whose houses happen to be a twenty-minute flight from the nearest city at Mach 2, just as a lot of suburbians in America today are just city-dwellers whose houses happen to be a twenty-minute drive from the urban center.

So you don't necessarily have to worry about Orion guerillas taking to the hills and abandoning the cities. They don't think that way anymore. A different species with a different relationship to the natural world or that had deliberately cultivated bonds between the people and the planets they live on (e.g. the Bajorans) might, but Orions generally wouldn't.

Or such is my purely speculative thesis about the way things work for them.
 
Hm, anyone have an idea what the full statline of a Starbase I or an outpost is?

Starbase I has never made it into the thread. I've always assumed C10 in strength calculations.

I'm shifting outposts so that they have
C4 S3 H8 L8 P4 D4

That is the statline of Outpost I before the most recent set of research completed.
e: With our research, the new statline for Outpost I should be:
C6 S4 H9 L9 P4 D4
 
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Same deal as previous recent days - vote will close when I get home tonight, around:

As for sports, well, I've mentioned cricket and association football in a UE context, and canonically we know there's still baseball bouncing about, so I suppose it's reasonable that the different nations would still have their own favourite pastimes.


I'm trying to decide whether gladiatorial type football codes (Australian, American/Canadian football, rugby league/union, things of that nature) would perish as anachronisms of a violent past, or survive as the last acceptable outlets.

Doubt it.

People may be peaceable, but contests of strength and athleticism are just examples of skills people can aspire to, and that is what human society in the Federation is all about. Those games test that sort of skill set. Sure, the sports are reminiscent of ancient bloodsports, but they're played with respect from and to all parties, and that, I think is what matters.

In the same vein I doubt things such as boxing would die out either. It is a contest of skill that pushes individuals to the peak of ability.
 
Ok, question to the thread at large. If we were able to build an escort with the statline of 3C 3S 4H 5L 3P 3D for 85BR 80SR and O1 E3 T2 in crew, would you guys vote for that as our next design to research after the Kepler?
 
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