To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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- Sci-Fi
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aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
For comparison:
Proposed design said:
Canon New Orleans said:
And for the record, I think it's pretty damn great.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Aside from being very hard to blow up, what useful purpose would such an escort serve, that a Kepler would not serve?
As a garrison escort it's no better than a Centaur-A, arguably worse, and since most Kepler variants I've seen have 3 or higher Presence it will be actively inferior to a Kepler for purposes of resolving events. As a fighting escort it's basically a bullet sponge, and I'm highly doubtful that "bullet sponge" is actually a productive role for us to design ships for.
I mean, it's impressive as an exercise in design... it's just that it doesn't serve any obvious, useful role that justifies the investment of building them.
Somehow I just don't see the results changing much in the next seven hours:
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I believe it is intended as replacement for both the Miranda and Centaur lines, a Kepler supplement.
The Kepler will Science better, this design will fight better and other roles be similar in, while (I think) being cheaper? Not sure what current costs for the Kepler are projected as.
The Kepler will Science better, this design will fight better and other roles be similar in, while (I think) being cheaper? Not sure what current costs for the Kepler are projected as.
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- Location
- Patriarchova
- Location
- Central Standard Time
The issue is with the New Orleans's (since that's basically what it is) low presence. The Kepler is a better Escort, Garrison on top of being our dedicated Escort, Science.
Now, if we were to replace the Miranda, it would be with another similar minimal cost design Escort.
Bullet sponge in combat is actually a good thing in the current system.
- Location
- Panama City
It can 2v1 Centaur-As and have a decent chance of blowing at least one up before it goes down for only a slightly more resource and crew cost, and can replace both Mirandas and Centaurs eventually. It'll be our mainline combat/garrison frigate for the next 30 years (or until we can design something that gets all 5s, at least).
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's intended as a means to circumvent the combat cap to a degree. It doesn't "cost" more combat than a Miranda, but it can't sink almost twice the damage and can do other things than fight. Given that the new combat calculator makes H&L very relevant to performance...
- Location
- Patriarchova
If it's intended to be a garrison frigate, I'd rather see more P, D, and S than our current models. If it's meant to be a combat escort, it needs to be cheaper.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
I agree. The roles are separate for a reason.
I wouldn't call it circumvent, that's the kind of ship we're meant to design under a combat cap.
Frigate durability is also relevant to the Torpedo Charge and Feint attack patterns.
Frigate durability is also relevant to the Torpedo Charge and Feint attack patterns.
- Location
- Australia
You know, I've been meaning to sit down and design the next family of Amarkian Escorts...
Sorry, but that's wrong. The Council expects us to design ships that can handle a wide range of emergency needs. Our ships have to respond to all sorts of calls. The design is slanted towards combat, but not so much that it cannot handle emergencies of other sorts. That just makes sense for us.
This is about the best we can get in cost efficiency, anyway.
- Location
- Patriarchova
If you can make it cheaper by knocking off some P and/or S, then it could be a great Miranda-A replacement.
- Location
- Panama City
SWB has it right-it IS as cost efficient, SR and crew wise, as a Miranda when it comes to combat, and is much more durable which matters to the combat engine.
Plus, we won't cry if it responds to events other than combat-unless you were expecting a combat escort we simply mothballed after every war?
Plus, we won't cry if it responds to events other than combat-unless you were expecting a combat escort we simply mothballed after every war?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm basically picturing this thing as a Centaur with applique armor and a redundant set of reinforced shield generators.
I'm not sure dropping science or presence to 2 would actually help much, unfortunately...
Hm.
To be fair, what makes the Miranda-A such a good fighting ship design isn't firepower, it's actually durability. The ship has 50 HP and Combat 3; this makes it much more practical and survivable as a combat design than the un-refitted Miranda with 30 HP and Combat 3. This is basically doubling down on the concept, giving the ship 90 HP (Rennie/Excelsior-grade durability)... while not increasing firepower at all.
I could actually see pitching this to the Council as a straightforward evolution of the Centaur-class, designed to do everything a Centaur does but withstand attacks more effectively due to better protection.
I'm not sure dropping science or presence to 2 would actually help much, unfortunately...
Hm.
To be fair, what makes the Miranda-A such a good fighting ship design isn't firepower, it's actually durability. The ship has 50 HP and Combat 3; this makes it much more practical and survivable as a combat design than the un-refitted Miranda with 30 HP and Combat 3. This is basically doubling down on the concept, giving the ship 90 HP (Rennie/Excelsior-grade durability)... while not increasing firepower at all.
I could actually see pitching this to the Council as a straightforward evolution of the Centaur-class, designed to do everything a Centaur does but withstand attacks more effectively due to better protection.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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- He/Him
... You're missing the point. In a situation in which we have hit the combat cap, we can either have 10 Mirandas or 10 of these. In such a scenario resource and crew cost are less of an issue, because we will have surplus to requirements since we won't be building at full speed. These can soak more damage, so they fight better, and they are otherwise a Centaur-A.
- Location
- Panama City
Actually, I have a couple other designs that have science+presence 2 that manage combat 4 while having at least 4H+L(one actually manages to hit 6H), for if we really do need a max-combat frigate.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think I get it.
This is very explicitly a successor to the Miranda-A, intended to meet a changing strategic and political situation (a combat-capped Starfleet).
Not an alternative to the Miranda-A that we would preferentially build at a time when there is no penalty for building more Miranda-As (like now).
That said, I would think that the technology required to build this could also design a lot of other ships that would beat up a Jaldun quite reliably. And since the Jalduns' statline appears to have been the same since 2300 if not earlier, it is likely that they'll be coming out with an improved model or refit themselves in the near future. We shouldn't assume we're the only ones who can build more badass ships.
This is very explicitly a successor to the Miranda-A, intended to meet a changing strategic and political situation (a combat-capped Starfleet).
Not an alternative to the Miranda-A that we would preferentially build at a time when there is no penalty for building more Miranda-As (like now).
That said, I would think that the technology required to build this could also design a lot of other ships that would beat up a Jaldun quite reliably. And since the Jalduns' statline appears to have been the same since 2300 if not earlier, it is likely that they'll be coming out with an improved model or refit themselves in the near future. We shouldn't assume we're the only ones who can build more badass ships.
- Location
- Panama City
It would also eventually supplant our Centaurs as well, once we don't need every ship possible(like right now)
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
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- She/Her
Actually, that design is perfectly servicable as both next gen combat and garrison escort. It's only very slightly worse than a Rennie at event response and while its C isn't that great it's actual combat capabilities are excellent because it has escort evasion and next gen Cruiser/current gen capital toughness.
This is the part where I remind people that the Rennie has S 3 P 4 L 5 and so upgrading this design much response wise renders the Rennie obsolete. The Kepler's probably a better responder but the Kepler's not viable on a next-gen battlefield and is more expensive IIRC.
This is the part where I remind people that the Rennie has S 3 P 4 L 5 and so upgrading this design much response wise renders the Rennie obsolete. The Kepler's probably a better responder but the Kepler's not viable on a next-gen battlefield and is more expensive IIRC.