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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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I'd honestly rather we commit military slips to this for the next few years while trying to get a better handle on our needs, than spam large numbers of auxiliary berths we may or may not consider useful in 2325-30.

In the short term, the Amarkia yard opens in 2314Q1, only one of those berths is going to the hospital ship prototype. That leaves three slots for freighters; we have time to think this over.
 
nocarename said:
All right. Don't read this is you don't care about the 'Great Logistics and Auxiliaries Debate'.

Over the game so far we've stretched a 10 cargo ship hole into our logistical network based on comments from the QM.
Look, I don't expect the players to stop pushing aggressively for new colonies for Starfleet and members for the Federation. Leaving those resources and races out for anyone to get into is bad tactics.
But we need the resources to keep up this aggressive tempo, and that means that we need more logistical support.
We, right now, have an auxiliary ship commitment of 10 hospital ships, which will take 30.75 slip years (9 ships x 3 years + 1 prototype x 1.25 factor (reduced from 1.5 due to hull reuse) x 3 years)
Then we have that 10 ship logistics hole, which at 2 years a ship is another 20 slip years.
Total commitment so far, 50.75 slip years.
We can only remove 4 slip years a year using the auxiliary yard.
It takes us 13 (12.69->12.75, really just call it 13) years just to meet our current demands, and that's how long we've played so far. I wouldn't be shocked to see us put another 20 slip year hole in the logistics network in that length of time.
I'm beginning to think that the four berths were sized on the basis of meeting on going requirements, plus a few spares.
I think that, if we take the two Betazed berths and lock them to auxiliary production - if that's possible - then sometime around the next decade or so we'll be out in front of our logistical issues.

No wonder the member fleets are so cranky with us for stealing their freighters, that's a lot of metal we need to start getting out. Assuming that none are destroyed from raids and we don't need to do anything for the SCE...

So, in conclusion, maybe not an eight berth yard, but another two temporarily would do wonders for my peace of mind.
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Okay, but what actual thing do you want people to do? There is not and never has been a "build cargo ship" option in these shipyard operations votes. There is not and never has been a 'build auxiliary yard' option in the Snakepit. So?
 
Simon_Jester said:
I'd honestly rather we commit military slips to this for the next few years while trying to get a better handle on our needs, than spam large numbers of auxiliary berths we may or may not consider useful in 2325-30.

In the short term, the Amarkia yard opens in 2314Q1, only one of those berths is going to the hospital ship prototype. That leaves three slots for freighters; we have time to think this over.
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Doesn't our Shipyard Admiral cut down construction time for concurrent builds? I say do it.
 
Briefvoice said:
Okay, but what actual thing do you want people to do? There is not and never has been a "build cargo ship" option in these shipyard operations votes. There is not and never has been a 'build auxiliary yard' option in the Snakepit. So?
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Honestly? This is campaigning groundwork. I'm trying to write an Omake about the logistics department, and then request the option as the bonus.
 
@OneirosTheWriter
Could we start getting build freighter options in the future? The council keeps poking us but we've never been able to do anything about it.
 
nocarename said:
Honestly? This is campaigning groundwork. I'm trying to write an Omake about the logistics department, and then request the option as the bonus.
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If @OneirosTheWriter wants to set some target of, "You need to clear space for X quarters to build cargo ships in your regular berths" then I'd be fine with that, but I definitely don't want a logistics department that requires us to figure out how many freighters is 'enough'.

pheonix89 said:
@OneirosTheWriter
Could we start getting build freighter options in the future? The council keeps poking us but we've never been able to do anything about it.
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@OneirosTheWriter please do not give us freighter options in the future. If we need to do something, tell us what is needed, but please do not start giving us open-ended 'build freighters' options.
 
From: Admiral Sousa
To: Rear Admiral Logistics (I cannot see a perfect match for whoever that would be on the personal page, sorry)
Copy: Vice Admiral Ulura, Vice Admiral Chen

How about you stop complaining to the Council and actually tell me how many ships you need and what types?

[Yes, I know Sousa is a very political animal, so this would be worded a lot nicer, but I'm not good at writing that]
 
MTB said:
Each academy expansion gets:

So, if you got a dropout quote of 90% for academy, and 50% for auxilaries, you need 750 additional students and 750*2*10=15000 auxiliaries. No wonder the Federation gets political problems if such a huge investment is required.
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pheonix89 said:
We'll get the first automation tech in something like six or seven turns, that should help a bit between refits using the high-automation subframe variants and the subtech that actually grants reduced enlisted requirements directly.
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My point was that we could try working this from another angle. There can be some streamlining practices we could employ, be them educational, bureaucratic or even political, to reduce our overheads for the expansions. We could try to get more of our civilians to be enthused about Starfleet's core mission (5ym specially) to have the local governments allow us more resources for our personnel needs (office spaces, use of contract workers in non sensitive areas that do not require a starfleet education to perform, etc) or even resources, without us needing to ask the council directly (that is why I was suggesting... advertising as a possibility, we want more people on board with our mission and our needs) or even work on high school ROTC style set up or other plans that would get more people motivated for joining up.

As it stands, the standard expand the academy we can do, but if we can find an oblique path...
 
As I understand it starfleet has a freaking tiny teeth to tail ratio. It's not that 90% of people joining the academy drop out, it's that only 10% wind up rated for mainline ships. Cutting that is probably going to hurt our performance in a lot of areas. Hell, it's probably a good chunk of our science advantage - we've got all sorts of specialists one subspace connection away for when ships NOT crewed exclusively by prodigies like the explorer corps run into oddness.
 
nocarename said:
Over the game so far we've stretched a 10 cargo ship hole into our logistical network based on comments from the QM.
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1 prototype x 1.25 factor (reduced from 1.5 due to hull reuse
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Do you have a source for this info? Can't find it with cursory thread search.

Wouldn't be surprised if either is true, mind.

edit: Found the prototype time in the research megapost: "Prototype will require 3.75 years to build (reduced due to working off existing hull-form)." But nothing on the 10 cargo ships thing.

Briefvoice said:
If @OneirosTheWriter wants to set some target of, "You need to clear space for X quarters to build cargo ships in your regular berths" then I'd be fine with that, but I definitely don't want a logistics department that requires us to figure out how many freighters is 'enough'.

@OneirosTheWriter please do not give us freighter options in the future. If we need to do something, tell us what is needed, but please do not start giving us open-ended 'build freighters' options.
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I, for one, would not mind auxiliary quotas that we have to plan for. We have a couple people in the thread that can handle shipbuild planning for auxiliaries if it annoys you that much.

Also, I'm pretty sure Oneiros already hinted that we'll have manage the production of such auxiliaries, though not to what extent yet: https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...-starfleet-quest.32005/page-1240#post-7928423
 
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pheonix89 said:
Nice. Question: Where are the phasers and torpedo launchers?
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Phaser emitters are still TOS style (as in, not the strips/arrays), as far as I know, so they're in the small yellow patches at three of the cardinal points of the saucer. Forward torpedo launcher in the neck. Engineering hull still doesn't have any of that.
AlphaDelta said:
Personally, I think the airlocks would be larger.
3-4 meters, perhaps. It's easier to adapt from a larger airlock to a smaller, than vice versa.
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At this point, it's a bit too difficult to change, as that's basically the entire height of the saucer rim. I could put a larger one on the secondary hull or neck.
Edit: I might be able to add half a metre or so. Will experiment.
 
lbmaian said:
Also, I'm pretty sure Oneiros already hinted that we'll have manage the production of such auxiliaries, though not to what extent yet: https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...-starfleet-quest.32005/page-1240#post-7928423
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The link says we'll be informed of production that goes on there, in the same way that MWCO informs us on what's going on in Member berths. Similar to the MCWO, I think we might occasionally get some very basic "give advice" decisions, but I doubt we'll have to vote for a specific build schedule every year. It's not that tracking it would be so much work as that I don't think it's possible for players to make an informed decision about how many cargo ships versus how many freighters versus how many superfreighters to build, etc.
 
@Briefvoice:

I'm with you on thinking it's probably good if we don't get bogged down in details of logistics. However, if we're going to start getting slapped with mechanical consequences for a lack of freighters, we need some kind of mechanical tool that lets us avoid lack of freighters.

Otherwise it's just "Haha, you grew too fast! Now it's too late for you to do anything about it because of this mechanic that didn't exist when you made the decision to grow so fast!"

Either we should be able to order construction of more freighters in our military yards...

Or we should be able to order construction of more freighters in our auxiliary yards (and/or more auxiliary berths to do that with)...

Or we shouldn't be penalized in game for a freighter shortage we literally have no tools to do anything about.
________________

@OneirosTheWriter:

Now that we have an auxiliary yard, do you intend for us to be able to issue orders to it? Or will it be operating on its own without our input? Will we be able to expand it?

Do you intend to allow us to order the construction of cargo ships in otherwise unused military berths?

Given that our supply of freighters is now being treated as important, and that this is a problem we weren't being asked to deal with prior to about 2310... Will you enact game changes that allow us to allocate resources to solving the problem? Or do we have to wait for it to solve itself?

These are important questions and many of us would like to know.
 
Simon_Jester said:
@Briefvoice:

I'm with you on thinking it's probably good if we don't get bogged down in details of logistics. However, if we're going to start getting slapped with mechanical consequences for a lack of freighters, we need some kind of mechanical tool that lets us avoid lack of freighters.

Otherwise it's just "Haha, you grew too fast! Now it's too late for you to do anything about it because of this mechanic that didn't exist when you made the decision to grow so fast!"

Either we should be able to order construction of more freighters in our military yards...

Or we should be able to order construction of more freighters in our auxiliary yards (and/or more auxiliary berths to do that with)...

Or we shouldn't be penalized in game for a freighter shortage we literally have no tools to do anything about.
________________

@OneirosTheWriter:

Now that we have an auxiliary yard, do you intend for us to be able to issue orders to it? Or will it be operating on its own without our input? Will we be able to expand it?

Do you intend to allow us to order the construction of cargo ships in otherwise unused military berths?

Given that our supply of freighters is now being treated as important, and that this is a problem we weren't being asked to deal with prior to about 2310... Will you enact game changes that allow us to allocate resources to solving the problem? Or do we have to wait for it to solve itself?

These are important questions and many of us would like to know.
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@OneirosTheWriter
One option that I would be okay with is a permanent shipyard ops/snakepit option for building a freighter.

One proposal is to use the Betazoid yards, if we build one, to build a couple runs of freighters.
 
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