Won't the 6 Renaissance plan drain our limited officer pool?
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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The Endurance is coming back from repair in Q2 and we could send that somewhere else. But where, and what do we send to the SBZ instead? OK... have a look at this and tell me how you would move things around. I've been trying to figure it out.
Early 2314 Fleet
Fleet Strength Changes
Endurance (Excelsior) returns from repair 2314.Q2
Shield (Miranda-A) returns from repair, 2314.Q2
2 Centaur-As complete, 2314.Q2
Constitution-B complete, 2314.Q2
Refit of Bon Vivant and T'Kumbra (now Miranda-A) complete, 2314.Q2
Renaissance complete, 2314.Q2
3 Miranda-As complete, 2314.Q3
Intrepid and Eketha (Mirandas) go into refit, 2314.Q3
Saratoga (Constitution-B) returns from repair, 2314.Q4
Sol Sector – Requires D18
- Current – 1 Constitution-B (5) [Hood], 2 Constellations (6) [Selaya, Vigour], 1 Miranda (2) [Dryad], Starbase 1 (5) = 18D
- 2314.Q2 – No change.
- 2314.Q3 – No change.
- Notes: No change.
- Current – 1 Constellation (3) [Sappho], 2 Mirandas (4) [Intrepid, Svai], Starbase I (5) = 12D
- 2314.Q2 - 1 Constellation (3) [Sappho], 2 Mirandas (4) [Intrepid, Svai], 1 Miranda-A (2) [Bon Vivant], Starbase I (5) = 14D
- 2314.Q3 - 1 Constellation (3) [Sappho], 1 Mirandas (2) [Svai], 1 Miranda-A (2) [Bon Vivant], Starbase I (5) = 12D
- Notes: Bon Vivant sent here after refit in Q2, then Intrepid sent to refit in Q3.
- Current - 1 Constellation (3) [Docana], 1 Miranda (2) [Calypso], Starbase I (5) = 10D
- 2314.Q2 – No change.
- 2314.Q3 – No change.
- No change.
- Current – 1 Miranda (2) [Thunderhead], Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 12D
- 2314.Q2 – 1 Miranda (2) [Thunderhead], 1 Constellation (3) [Stalwart], Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 12D
- 2314.Q3 – No change.
- Notes: Stalwart sent here in Q2.
- Current - 2 Centaur-A (6) [Blizzard, Lightning], Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 16D
- 2314.Q2 – No change.
- 2314.Q3 – No change.
- Notes: No change.
- Current - 1 Centaur-A (3) [Yukikaze], 1 Constellation (3) [Stalwart], 1 Constitution-A (5) [Cheron], Starbase I (5) = 16D
- 2314.Q2 – 1 Renaissance (5) [Renaissance], 1 Constitution-A (5) [Cheron], Starbase I (5) = 15D
- 2314.Q3 – No change.
- Notes: Renaissance moved here when it finishes in Q2. Stalwart moved back to Tellar Sector, and Yukikaze sent to KBZ.
- Current – 1 Centaur-A (3) [Gale], 1 Oberth [Suvek] (1), Starbase I (5) = 9D
- 2314.Q2 – No change.
- 2314.Q3 – No change.
- Notes: No change.
- Current - 1 Centaur-A (3) [Zephyr], 1 Oberth (1) [Torbriel], Starbase I (5) [Grand Hive of Apinae], Extra Outposts [5] = 14D
- 2314.Q2 – No change.
- 2314.Q3 – No change.
- Notes: No change.
- Current - 1 Excelsior (6) [Excelsior], 1 Oberth [Hawking] (1), Starbase I (5) = 12D
- 2314.Q2 – 1 Excelsior (6) [Excelsior], 1 Centaur-A (3) [new SF build #2], 1 Oberth [Hawking] (1), Starbase I (5) = 15D
- 2314.Q3 – No change.
- Notes: New Centaur-A SF build #2 sent here after completion.
- Current – 1 Excelsior (6) [Thirishar], 1 Oberth (1) [Inspire] = D7
- 2314.Q2 – 1 Excelsior (6) [Thirishar], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Yukikaze], 1 Oberth (1) [Inspire] = D10
- 2314.Q3 – No change.
- Yukikaze sent here in Q2.
- Current - 1 Excelsior (6) [Salnas], 1 Oberth (1) [T'Mir], Starbase I (5) [Lapycorias] = 12D
- 2314.Q2 - 1 Excelsior (6) [Salnas], 1 Constitution-B (5) [new Ana Font Build #1], 1 Oberth (1) [T'Mir], Starbase I (5) [Lapycorias] = 17D
- 2314.Q3 – No change.
- Notes: New Constitution build sent here in 2314.Q2.
- Current – 1 Constitution-B (5) [Defiant], 1 Miranda (2) [Eketha], Starbase I (5) [Vega] = 12D
- 2314.Q2 – 1 Constitution-B (5) [Defiant], 1 Centaur-A (3) [new SF build #1], 1 Miranda (2) [Eketha], Starbase I (5) [Vega] = 15D
- 2314.Q3 - 1 Constitution-B (5) [Defiant], 1 Centaur-A (3) [new SF build #1], Starbase I (5) [Vega] = 13D
- Notes: Centaur-A sent here after completion in Q2. Eketha sent to refit in Q3.
- Current – 2 Excelsiors (12) [Kumari, Avandar], 3 Constitution-B (15) [Korolev, Republic, Valiant], 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 2 Centaur-A (6) [Bull, Winterwind], 1 Miranda-A (2) [Fidelity] = 41C
- 2314.Q2 - 3 Excelsiors (18) [Kumari, Avandar, Endurance], 3 Constitution-B (15) [Korolev, Republic, Valiant], 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 2 Centaur-A (6) [Bull, Winterwind], 3 Miranda-A (6) [Fidelity, Shield, T'Kumbra] = 53C
- 2314.Q3 - 3 Excelsiors (18) [Kumari, Avandar, Endurance], 3 Constitution-B (15) [Korolev, Republic, Valiant], 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 2 Centaur-A (6) [Bull, Winterwind], 6 Miranda-A (12) [Fidelity, Shield, T'Kumbra, new 40E builds #1, #2, and #3] = 62 C.
- 2314.Q4 - 3 Excelsiors (18) [Kumari, Avandar, Endurance], 4 Constitution-B (20) [Korolev, Republic, Valiant, Saratoga], 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 2 Centaur-A (6) [Bull, Winterwind], 6 Miranda-A (12) [Fidelity, Shield, T'Kumbra, new 40E builds #1, #2, and #3] = 67 C.
- Notes: Endurance and Shield return from repair and T'Kumbra comes here from refit in Q2. New Miranda-A builds #1 and #2 and #3 sent here in Q3. Saratoga returns in Q4.
- Current – 1 Constitution-B [Lexington], 1 Constellation [Kearsage]
- 2314.Q2 – No change.
- 2314.Q3 – No change.
- Notes: No change.
I would say put the Yukikaze in the SBZ over the RBZ, moving the new C-A to the RBZ. Swap the Defiant and the Endurance. Put the new Ana Font Build #1 Connie-B into the GBZ and move a Centaur-A to the CBZ. That gives the GBZ a slight positive in strength, keeps problem-solving in the CBZ the same, and improves the SBZ by a little. If the Yukikaze can't make the SBZ then what you have is fine.
Does any of that seem insane? I'd prefer a Capital Ship in the SBZ as it gets response bonuses and is quite a bit better at favorable resolutions.
Does any of that seem insane? I'd prefer a Capital Ship in the SBZ as it gets response bonuses and is quite a bit better at favorable resolutions.
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pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'd really like to have more ships in Amarkia/Ferasa sectors. Not sure where to get much of anything with useful response capabilities.
Maybe pull Winterwind and Bull from the GBZ when the Miranda trio arrives?
Maybe pull Winterwind and Bull from the GBZ when the Miranda trio arrives?
Okay, let's see if I've got this right. Conveniently it's only swaps between the border zones. Is this what you're suggesting?
Romulan Border Zone – Requires D12
- Current - 1 Excelsior (6) [Excelsior], 1 Oberth [Hawking] (1), Starbase I (5) = 12D
- 2314.Q2 – 1 Excelsior (6) [Excelsior], 1 Centaur-A (3) [new SF build #2], 1 Oberth [Hawking] (1), Starbase I (5) = 15D
- 2314.Q3 – No change.
- Notes: New Centaur-A SF build #2 sent here after completion.
- Current – 1 Excelsior (6) [Thirishar], 1 Oberth (1) [Inspire] = D7
- 2314.Q2 – 1 Excelsior (6) [Thirishar], 1 Centaur-A (3) [new SF build #1], 1 Oberth (1) [Inspire] = D10
- 2314.Q3 – No change.
- New SF #1 Centaur-A build sent here in Q2.
- Current - 1 Excelsior (6) [Salnas], 1 Oberth (1) [T'Mir], Starbase I (5) [Lapycorias] = 12D
- 2314.Q2 - 1 Excelsior (6) [Salnas], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Bull], 1 Oberth (1) [T'Mir], Starbase I (5) [Lapycorias] = 15D
- 2314.Q3 – No change.
- Notes: Bull sent here from GBZ in Q2.
- Current – 1 Constitution-B (5) [Defiant], 1 Miranda (2) [Eketha], Starbase I (5) [Vega] = 12D
- 2314.Q2 – 1 Excelsior (6) [Endurance], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Yukikaze], 1 Miranda (2) [Eketha], Starbase I (5) [Vega] = 16D
- 2314.Q3 - 1 Excelsior (6) [Endurance], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Yukikaze], Starbase I (5) [Vega] = 14D
- Notes: Endurance and Yukikaze sent here in Q2, while Defiant is sent to SBZ. Eketha sent to refit in Q3.
- Current – 2 Excelsiors (12) [Kumari, Avandar], 3 Constitution-B (15) [Korolev, Republic, Valiant], 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 2 Centaur-A (6) [Bull, Winterwind], 1 Miranda-A (2) [Fidelity] = 41C
- 2314.Q2 - 2 Excelsiors (12) [Kumari, Avandar], 5 Constitution-B (25) [Korolev, Republic, Valiant, Defiant, new Ana Font build #1], 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Winterwind], 3 Miranda-A (6) [Fidelity, Shield, T'Kumbra] = 54C
- 2314.Q3 - 2 Excelsiors (12) [Kumari, Avandar], 5 Constitution-B (25) [Korolev, Republic, Valiant, Defiant, new Ana Font build #1], 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Winterwind], 6 Miranda-A (12) [Fidelity, Shield, T'Kumbra, new 40E builds #1, #2, and #3] = 63 C.
- 2314.Q4 - 2 Excelsiors (12) [Kumari, Avandar], 6 Constitution-B (30) [Korolev, Republic, Valiant, Defiant, new Ana Font build #1, Saratoga], 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Winterwind], 6 Miranda-A (12) [Fidelity, Shield, T'Kumbra, new 40E builds #1, #2, and #3] = 68 C.
- Notes: Shield return from repair and T'Kumbra and Defiant and new Connie-B build comes here from refit in Q2, while Bull is pulled. New Miranda-A builds #1 and #2 and #3 sent here in Q3. Saratoga returns in Q4.
I like it!
- Location
- Earth
The only other thing it looks like we can do is steal ships from the GBZ in the 3rd quarter, perhaps 1 or 2 of the frigates, and either send them to reinforce the SBZ or have them replace something else that then reinforces the SBZ.
I'm unsure if there's any point to doing so compared to your idea however. 2 more frigates are not going to significantly change the outcome if the Sydraxians attack the border zone in force and the GBZ Escort Force needs all the ships it can get.
Honestly, we're probably going to need to just cross our fingers and hope the Sydraxians don't do anything this year, because next year we'll get our last Constitution-B and 2-3 more Excelsiors which will make things far easier. (not sure if a regular ship is the one going into refit or if an EC one is)
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I had planned to send our EC ship the Courageous into refit. Timing works out nicely.
It won't help with an outright war, no. Unless we can draw down about 20 to 25 total strength worth the SBZ fleet is not much of a deterrent. Having two or even three of our best in the are where we're likely to do maybe two diplo pushes seems a good idea though. Basically, better ships can improve our peacetime position, but only more ships can improve our wartime defense.
Honestly I wonder if we should add one of the new C-As and let one of the KBZ or RBZ lie for now.
- Location
- Earth
Ok, so next year we'll probably send the last Constitution-B to the GBZ and put an Excelsior in the Amarkia, Apinae, and Rigel sectors so that they all have a good response ship, while we can send off a frigate or two from them for other duties if we need to. Plan subject to change/disagreement/events of course.
Your original plan works fine, this year we are just going to have to hope that nothing particularly bad happens.
I really want three ships on those borders. When the war breaks out we have no idea what kind of crazy shit could spill out. Refugees, third party species unlucky enough to be caught up in it, independent commerce raiders taking a shortcut through Federation territory... maybe we'll see the Gorn again for all I know. It's going to be exciting times just over the border.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
nit: This is 15D
Another optimization:
Swap Rigel's Gale with Amarkia's Blizzard, since the Gale is blooded and thus has P4.
Or equivalently, to optimize travel times as much as possible, a bit of musical chairs, this time to move the blooded Yukikaze to Amarkia:
Amarkia's Blizzard => Rigel
Rigel's Gale => SBZ
Ferasa's Yukikaze => Amarkia
- Location
- Patriarchova
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Just... take some time. The next snakepit may not even offer us the option to expand the auxiliary-berth yard at Amarkia, and building *normal* yards may actually be a good idea if it's done in moderation. Let's not jump to conclusions.
The thing is, we're already building auxiliary berths. That is already a thing that we are doing. The default state is "we used to have zero." The reason we don't have enough auxiliaries is because we had zero berths before. Soon, we will have four.
Basically, you're arguing that because we don't have enough auxiliaries, we need six or eight auxiliary berths. The problem is that you're not giving time for us to 'digest' the first four auxiliary berths, to see how much benefit we get from them and from other options.
Imagine if we'd just kept building more and more explorer berths back in 2306-8 because "we want more explorers." Sure, more berths is theoretically better than fewer, but would we really be better off? We would eventually hit a point where it was either impossible or undesirable to have those extra berths around, and then we'd be regretting that we spent the political will on something we weren't going to be able to fully benefit from.
By a similar token, we shouldn't build four more auxiliary berths just because (in theory) we can, when we literally just got done building four. There are a lot of other things we can do with political will (and with Sousa's deals) instead.
Trying to rush-build a large fleet of anything, including auxiliaries, by spamming construction facilities is a bad idea, because the construction facilities are not a direct solution to the problem, they're an indirect solution. It's easy to overspend on the construction facilities in an attempt to solve an immediate need 'quickly,' and then realize that we've squandered valuable resources.
Right now, if we start building more berths, we may not be able to crew the ships we put in those berths.
The only reason to build more berths right now is either to build low-crew auxiliaries, or so we have some reserve capacity in order to do repairs. Or to take advantage of high political will levels... but our political willpower reserves aren't that high.
Yes, that's why people describe it as 'risky.' Because it is highly likely to run us out of officers.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
Not 47? Heretical!
- Location
- Patriarchova
Already used that.
- Location
- Nova Scotia, Canada
[X][CREW1] Explorer Corps
[X][NAME1] Voshev
[X][CREW2] Standard Starfleet
[X][NAME2] Rru'adorr
[X][BUILD] 2314 3 Miranda-A, 4 Renaissance, 2 Miranda-A refits
I like the 6 Rennie plan but I'm too concerned about crew shortages to go for it. I'm expecting at least 1 more serious fleet battle between us and the Sydraxians in the GBZ in the next quarter or two. They can't take a major defeat like that a third time so if we win (or do equivalent damage) then they should be out of the GBZ until their wartime economy gives them some more ships.
[X][NAME1] Voshev
[X][CREW2] Standard Starfleet
[X][NAME2] Rru'adorr
[X][BUILD] 2314 3 Miranda-A, 4 Renaissance, 2 Miranda-A refits
I like the 6 Rennie plan but I'm too concerned about crew shortages to go for it. I'm expecting at least 1 more serious fleet battle between us and the Sydraxians in the GBZ in the next quarter or two. They can't take a major defeat like that a third time so if we win (or do equivalent damage) then they should be out of the GBZ until their wartime economy gives them some more ships.
Regarding the risk of running out of crew with the six Renaissance plan.
If a ship gets destroyed instead of damaged, rescued crew become a crew surplus.
If we have to delay crewing a ship, the last Connie-B in LOCF and the Renaissance in Ana Font can easily be delayed two or three quarters with no harm done.
If a ship gets destroyed instead of damaged, rescued crew become a crew surplus.
If we have to delay crewing a ship, the last Connie-B in LOCF and the Renaissance in Ana Font can easily be delayed two or three quarters with no harm done.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
[X][NAME2] Rru'adorr
[X][BUILD] 2314 6 Renaissance, 2 Miranda-A refits
[X][NAME1] Voshev
[X][BUILD] 2314 6 Renaissance, 2 Miranda-A refits
[X][NAME1] Voshev
- Location
- Infraspace
I reworked the rim windows a bit, to make them a bit more reasonable. Still need to replicate them around, which is more complicated than it might seem due to the mesh's geometry.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
That's the worst way to get crew though. And on average, we have to replenish much more crew to damaged ships than return crew to reserves from lost ships.
If this is true, then that's awesome. Source?
Unless I'm told otherwise, I'm going to assume a crew deficit is going to be as politically bad as a resource deficit.[/QUOTE]
- Location
- Central Standard Time
Personally, I think the airlocks would be larger.I reworked the rim windows a bit, to make them a bit more reasonable. Still need to replicate them around, which is more complicated than it might seem due to the mesh's geometry.
3-4 meters, perhaps. It's easier to adapt from a larger airlock to a smaller, than vice versa.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
[/QUOTE]
I think briefvoice means that the Ana Font Rennie can be started later.
All right. Don't read this is you don't care about the 'Great Logistics and Auxiliaries Debate'.
Over the game so far we've stretched a 10 cargo ship hole into our logistical network based on comments from the QM.
Look, I don't expect the players to stop pushing aggressively for new colonies for Starfleet and members for the Federation. Leaving those resources and races out for anyone to get into is bad tactics.
But we need the resources to keep up this aggressive tempo, and that means that we need more logistical support.
We, right now, have an auxiliary ship commitment of 10 hospital ships, which will take 30.75 slip years (9 ships x 3 years + 1 prototype x 1.25 factor (reduced from 1.5 due to hull reuse) x 3 years)
Then we have that 10 ship logistics hole, which at 2 years a ship is another 20 slip years.
Total commitment so far, 50.75 slip years.
We can only remove 4 slip years a year using the auxiliary yard.
It takes us 13 (12.69->12.75, really just call it 13) years just to meet our current demands, and that's how long we've played so far. I wouldn't be shocked to see us put another 20 slip year hole in the logistics network in that length of time.
I'm beginning to think that the four berths were sized on the basis of meeting on going requirements, plus a few spares.
I think that, if we take the two Betazed berths and lock them to auxiliary production - if that's possible - then sometime around the next decade or so we'll be out in front of our logistical issues.
No wonder the member fleets are so cranky with us for stealing their freighters, that's a lot of metal we need to start getting out. Assuming that none are destroyed from raids and we don't need to do anything for the SCE...
So, in conclusion, maybe not an eight berth yard, but another two temporarily would do wonders for my peace of mind.
Over the game so far we've stretched a 10 cargo ship hole into our logistical network based on comments from the QM.
Look, I don't expect the players to stop pushing aggressively for new colonies for Starfleet and members for the Federation. Leaving those resources and races out for anyone to get into is bad tactics.
But we need the resources to keep up this aggressive tempo, and that means that we need more logistical support.
We, right now, have an auxiliary ship commitment of 10 hospital ships, which will take 30.75 slip years (9 ships x 3 years + 1 prototype x 1.25 factor (reduced from 1.5 due to hull reuse) x 3 years)
Then we have that 10 ship logistics hole, which at 2 years a ship is another 20 slip years.
Total commitment so far, 50.75 slip years.
We can only remove 4 slip years a year using the auxiliary yard.
It takes us 13 (12.69->12.75, really just call it 13) years just to meet our current demands, and that's how long we've played so far. I wouldn't be shocked to see us put another 20 slip year hole in the logistics network in that length of time.
I'm beginning to think that the four berths were sized on the basis of meeting on going requirements, plus a few spares.
I think that, if we take the two Betazed berths and lock them to auxiliary production - if that's possible - then sometime around the next decade or so we'll be out in front of our logistical issues.
No wonder the member fleets are so cranky with us for stealing their freighters, that's a lot of metal we need to start getting out. Assuming that none are destroyed from raids and we don't need to do anything for the SCE...
So, in conclusion, maybe not an eight berth yard, but another two temporarily would do wonders for my peace of mind.
Sounds a fair enough.