To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

Briefvoice · Feb 27, 2017

Nervos Belli said:
Hey, I was just looking at Cheron, and I'm pretty sure her stats are lower than they should be. Her stats are all +1 over a Green Constitution A, but she's veteran. She should have +2 to all stats. So she's a C7 H6 L6 ship. Considerably better than a green Excelsior in a fight. I really think we should send her to the GBZ, where she'd be the equal to Kumari except that she actually has an extra point of hull strength. I know we don't want to risk our experienced ship, but Cheron is an extremely tough old girl. Putting her there is significantly better than sending them Avandar.

@OneirosTheWriter is doing a stealth retcon in the stats of the baseline Constitution-A. "C5 S4 H4 L4 P5 D5" is way too crazy good considering the age of the ship design, so he's having it that it was actually "C4 S3 H3 L3 P4 D5" and the Cheron was a Blooded ship when the game started.

Jrin · Feb 27, 2017

[x][APIATA] Intazzi Team - Grand Hive R&D
[x][INDORIA] All Pyllix Geological Institute

[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][ROM] Romulan Daljerra Cruiser Report
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Pick a faction to gain an estimate of fleet strength in the GBZ - Cardassians
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to

Void Stalker · Feb 27, 2017

Here is where we are now in terms of votes:
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 1288 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.6

[2] Plan All The Ships.

Plan: ◈All The Ships.
Night_stalker
Vehrec

[2] Plan Mines and Engines

Plan: ◈All The Ships.
Plan: ◈Mines and Engines
Night_stalker
Vehrec

——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: APIATA

[22][APIATA] Intazzi Team - Grand Hive R&D

——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: CARD

[16][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

Plan: ◈All The Ships.
anon_user
Derek58
Erandil
Gingganz
Iron Wolf
Japanime
Joshrand1982
Jrin
Leila Hann
NHO
Night_stalker
pbluekan
pheonix89
UbeOne
Vehrec
Yeangst

[8][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report

Briefvoice
Glassware
JesseJ
Kaze
lbmaian
Random Member
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Void Stalker

[1][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report

Alastor Mobius Toth

——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: INDORIA

[17][INDORIA] All Pyllix Geological Institute

Plan: ◈All The Ships.
anon_user
Briefvoice
Iron Wolf
JesseJ
Joshrand1982
Jrin
Kaze
lbmaian
NHO
Night_stalker
Nix
pheonix89
Pyro Hawk
Random Member
UbeOne
Vehrec
Void Stalker

[5][INDORIA] Craftsman Guild Projects Department

Leila Hann
Erandil
Gingganz
Japanime
Yeangst

——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: REPORT

[22][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to
[19][REPORT] Yrillian Fleet Strength Report
[17][REPORT] GBZ: Pick a faction to gain an estimate of fleet strength in the GBZ - Cardassians

Briefvoice
AlphaDelta
anon_user
Glassware
Iron Wolf
Japanime
JesseJ
Jrin
Kaze
lbmaian
Leila Hann
pbluekan
Random Member
SynchronizedWritersBlock
UbeOne
Void Stalker
Yeangst

[7][REPORT] Sydraxian Tactics Report (2% combat bonus vs this fleet for 12months)

Leila Hann
anon_user
Gingganz
Japanime
pbluekan
UbeOne
Yeangst

[4][REPORT] Ship Analysis Report: Kalindrax

Plan: ◈All The Ships.
NHO
Night_stalker
pheonix89
Vehrec

[3][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report

Derek58
Alastor Mobius Toth
Jrin

[1][REPORT] Sotaw Diplomatic Posture Report

Erandil

[1][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to (Cardassians)

Erandil

[1][REPORT] GBZ: Pick a faction to gain an estimate of fleet strength in the GBZ

Joshrand1982

[1][REPORT] Syndraxian Tactics Report (2% combat bonus vs this fleet for 12months)

Derek58

[1][REPORT] Sydraxian Tactics Report

Alastor Mobius Toth

——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: ROM

[24][ROM] Romulan Daljerra Cruiser Report
[1][ROM] Romulan Shipbuilding Report

Erandil

Total No. of Voters: 28

ClawClawBite · Feb 27, 2017

So, on the subject of tractor towed weapon launchers, Star Fleet Battles (the tactical boardgame that was used to create the Starfleet command computer games with much more details) did implement these as drouges. They had limited ammunition, but we're good for alpha strikes.

Their big issue was that they seriously limited tactical speed. This was a major limitation, because being able to control when you are in useful firing range, and even better compatible advantages range for your weapons vs. your opponent's weapons was critical for winning SFB battles, and makes sense to be likewise for our fights with the same ships under different rules.

AlphaDelta · Feb 27, 2017

Nervos Belli said:
I think the Yrillian report is going to have some major error bars on it, because figuring out who owns how many ships is gonna be difficult. Probably no more than 10-20% of combat ships are owned by the central government, and figuring out which side the various factions are going to support will be a nightmare for Starfleet Intelligence.

Well, good thing it's Linderly's problem.

Autocorrect suggested Linderpy.

Void Stalker said:
I do think we need to figure out when we want to start the Kepler along with replacement combat/generalist escorts.

IMO, early 2320s sounds good.

Basically, once Rennie Wave 2 finishes.

Briefvoice · Feb 27, 2017

AlphaDelta said:
IMO, early 2320s sounds good.

Basically, once Rennie Wave 2 finishes.

Why wait so long? It seems like the technology is there to produce a pretty great Kepler right now, or definitely in the near future. I'd like to ask for the design project in the 2315 Snakepit and start the prototype well before the end of the decade.

Iron Wolf · Feb 27, 2017

Leila Hann said:
Like I asked earlier, how fast ARE impulse engines? It would be they, not the warp engines, that impart the energy for a KKV.

IIRC the max velocity is .75c as per the TNG tech manual but ships hardly ever go above .25c due to time dilation. There's probably something on MA. I think the counter to RKKVs in Trek is the fact you have FTL sensors and FTL to intercept.

Void Stalker · Feb 27, 2017

Briefvoice said:
Why wait so long? It seems like the technology is there to produce a pretty great Kepler right now, or definitely in the near future. I'd like to ask for the design project in the 2315 Snakepit and start the prototype well before the end of the decade.

Well lightweight frames are likely to take 6 years so if we want those for the Kepler than we need to wait until the 2320 snakepit. Deciding on when we want to start the project helps since that can determine when we need to hit certain techs by.

Alias · Feb 27, 2017

What exactly is Kepler? I keep seeing that word.

SynchronizedWritersBlock · Feb 27, 2017

In my opinion, we should start the Kepler generalist escort project the moment the S8 P5 Kepler is possible, and time it such that the prototype completes at the end of Renaissance wave 2 (2320) or one set of refits after that (2321). As it will be a 3ish year prototype and a 1.25 to 2.25 year research project, that may mean a Snakepit date of 2315 to 2316. I don't see the benefits of waiting to 2320 for a 2325 or 2326 deployment date; the Kepler will not increase appreciably in stats. I estimate about 0.5 stats per tech tier and we aren't getting two full tiers in 5 years, not even close. Maybe one tier in a few areas.

The question for the research guru (@Nix) is when are the next projected completions of science or presence parts?

Goat · Feb 27, 2017

Alias said:
What exactly is Kepler? I keep seeing that word.

The Keplar is the working name for the next Science Ship - depending on what the design sheet status is at the time it may also be a General Escort as well.

Either way, it is to replace the Oberth design and to help confirm to the Council our commitment to peace and science.

Simon_Jester · Feb 27, 2017

Leila Hann said:
Like I asked earlier, how fast ARE impulse engines? It would be they, not the warp engines, that impart the energy for a KKV.

For that matter, even impulse engines are implied to be non-Newtonian by at least some of the various bits of semi-contradictory fluff involving them, so even the impulse engines might not impart the kind of momentum their speed would indicate.

Alias · Feb 27, 2017

Goat said:
The Keplar is the working name for the next Science Ship - depending on what the design sheet status is at the time it may also be a General Escort as well.

Either way, it is to replace the Oberth design and to help confirm to the Council our commitment to peace and science.

So is there a Kelplar class in Star Trek or is this an original designed class of ships?

Goat · Feb 27, 2017

Alias said:
So is there a Kelplar class in Star Trek or is this an original designed class of ships?

Original as far as I know.

I know the people playing with the ship design sheets want Science 8 on it - as good as an Elite Oberth straight out of the builders berth.

If they get the sort of stats they want tomake a general purpose escort as well, we will be building a pile of them, to fulfil peace time garrison duties throughout the Federation. Probably not a great warship though.

SynchronizedWritersBlock · Feb 27, 2017

I would accept Science 7 and Presence 4. Science 6 is not worth upgrading the Oberth for, similarly I'd take the C-A for P3. We should have a finalized sheet well before we need to consider the exact stats though.

HeWhoAdds · Feb 27, 2017

Alias said:
What exactly is Kepler? I keep seeing that word.

Kepler is the proposed name for a hypothetical Science-focused escort intended to replace the Oberth. I don't think the SDB thread has pinned down an exact design quite yet.

edit: Lecarre'd

Briefvoice · Feb 27, 2017

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
In my opinion, we should start the Kepler generalist escort project the moment the S8 P5 Kepler is possible, and time it such that the prototype completes at the end of Renaissance wave 2 (2320) or one set of refits after that (2321). As it will be a 3ish year prototype and a 1.25 to 2.25 year research project, that may mean a Snakepit date of 2315 to 2316. I don't see the benefits of waiting to 2320 for a 2325 or 2326 deployment date; the Kepler will not increase appreciably in stats. I estimate about 0.5 stats per tech tier and we aren't getting two full tiers in 5 years, not even close. Maybe one tier in a few areas.

The question for the research guru (@Nix) is when are the next projected completions of science or presence parts?

If we put the 40 Eridani A team on 2310's Escort Science this year, then they should finish next year and be available to start an Escort Design project in 2315. The rewards for Escort Science are:

2310s Escort Science Package
For designing smaller, sub-1 million ton vessels. These are typically much more combat and defence oriented, and are often short on science and durability.

10 / 20 ONA Costs Directive 230x (Escort Design Efficiency II) (-2% to SR Costs)
5 / 20 Lwaxana Design Protocol '0x (Escort Presence Design II) (-1% to Escort Presence weight)
10 / 20 Improved Sensor Cupola Design (Escort Science Design II) (-1% to Escort stat weights)
3 / 10 XA3 Compact Plasma Coolant Exchange (Escort Warp Core Weight I) (-2% Warp Core weight on Escorts)
3 / 10 High-Efficiency EPS Conduit (-1% Science/Presence Power Use)

All the stuff we'd want to focus on for the Kepler.

Simon_Jester · Feb 27, 2017

Alias said:
So is there a Kelplar class in Star Trek or is this an original designed class of ships?

There is no such vessel in canon.

Basically, the problem is that the Oberth-class is a TOS-era design that according to canon kept soldiering on into the TNG-era, which is just excessive in our eyes.

So we're proposing to design a new science vessel, vastly more capable (probably built to the same general scale as the Miranda). One that will be a bit more survivable and a lot more suitable for being parked in a safe sector to handle peaceful missions of mapping, research, and diplomacy. In canon there is no such ship, probably because nobody really sat down and considered how silly it was to have Starfleet using the same model of science vessel for nearly a hundred years.

Void Stalker · Feb 27, 2017

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
In my opinion, we should start the Kepler generalist escort project the moment the S8 P5 Kepler is possible, and time it such that the prototype completes at the end of Renaissance wave 2 (2320) or one set of refits after that (2321). As it will be a 3ish year prototype and a 1.25 to 2.25 year research project, that may mean a Snakepit date of 2315 to 2316. I don't see the benefits of waiting to 2320 for a 2325 or 2326 deployment date; the Kepler will not increase appreciably in stats. I estimate about 0.5 stats per tech tier and we aren't getting two full tiers in 5 years, not even close. Maybe one tier in a few areas.

The question for the research guru (@Nix) is when are the next projected completions of science or presence parts?

2320s Research Center-T3 Science Lab is 5+ years
2310 Intensive Care-T2 Science Lab is this year or next year (though we have one T2 science lab already, this may unlock more varieties)
2310 affiliate- T1 Rec Package 3 years, may be sooner with boosts and gains from new affiliates
2320 Targeting Sensor (called 2310 SR Sensor in last Ex-Astria)- T3 SR Sensors 2 to 3 years

Those are for ones we have started currently, not ones we are debating about starting for the upcoming one. Though 2310 Escort Science will only be a year or two and will help out

Edit:
For New parts they seem to fall under the following Categories:
Computing, Warp Tech, Starship Construction, Sensors, Weapons, Shields, Xenopsyhc, Medical and Propulsion

Computing-Computer Core, OS, Targeting Computer, Science Labs (also falls under Sensors and Medical) and T3+ Nav Sensors
Warp Tech-Warp Core, Injectors, Coolants, EPS, Warp Nacelles (also needs Propulsion)
Starship Construction- Frames, Hull, SIF, Warp Core Ejectors
Sensors-LR Sensor, SR Sensor, Nav Sensor, Survey Sensors, Science Labs (also falls under Computing and Medical),
Weapons-Phasers, Torpedos
Shields-Navigation Deflectors, Shields
Xenospych-Diplomacy Package, Recreation Package
Medical-Sickbay, Science Labs (also falls under Computing and Sensors),
Propulsion-Impulse, Warp Nacelles (also needs Warp Tech), Fuel and Matter Storage

Sub frames-some show up under some of the techs in the above categories but we also got messages of unlocked frames when completing ship design techs so there may be a combination needed or that may have been changed

Forgothrax · Feb 27, 2017

Plan for the Kepler seems to be to have the Science of an Ambassador, Presence of an Excelsior-A, and basically the other stats of a Miranda-A, except possibly slightly less Combat and slightly higher Defense. In other words, the perfect peacetime garrison ship.

UbeOne · Feb 27, 2017

Simon_Jester said:
because nobody really sat down and considered how silly it was to have Starfleet using the same model of science vessel for nearly a hundred years.

It could be because of budget considerations, thus, reusing the same model of ship.

SynchronizedWritersBlock · Feb 27, 2017

Void Stalker said:
2320s Research Center-T3 Science Lab is 5+ years

This would be a boon but is too long.

2310 Intensive Care-T2 Science Lab is this year or next year (though we have one T2 science lab already, this may unlock more varieties)

Likely escort and cruiser labs, which are too small for what we need for the Kepler. Potentially usable on a non-science ship.

2310 affiliate- T1 Rec Package 3 years, may be sooner with boosts and gains from new affiliates

Will help.

2320 Targeting Sensor (called 2310 SR Sensor in last Ex-Astria)- T3 SR Sensors 2 to 3 years

Yeah that's the one we want, preferably in two years. If not, well, I'm okay with an S7 Kepler.

Briefvoice said:
If we put the 40 Eridani A team on 2310's Escort Science this year, then they should finish next year and be available to start an Escort Design project in 2315. The rewards for Escort Science are:

Sounds like the T2 Escort Ops frame. If the other frames are a guide, it will be a tiny boost. Completing the same Explorer tech gave us the T2 Explorer Ops frame.

Briefvoice · Feb 27, 2017

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Sounds like the T2 Escort Ops frame. If the other frames are a guide, it will be a tiny boost. Completing the same Explorer tech gave us the T2 Explorer Ops frame.

Well they're all tiny boosts; that's the point, right? But from a timing perspective, it would work. We would do well from having a worthwhile, low-C (relatively) garrison escort by the end of the decade.

Iron Wolf · Feb 27, 2017

Simon_Jester said:
There is no such vessel in canon.

Basically, the problem is that the Oberth-class is a TOS-era design that according to canon kept soldiering on into the TNG-era, which is just excessive in our eyes.

So we're proposing to design a new science vessel, vastly more capable (probably built to the same general scale as the Miranda). One that will be a bit more survivable and a lot more suitable for being parked in a safe sector to handle peaceful missions of mapping, research, and diplomacy. In canon there is no such ship, probably because nobody really sat down and considered how silly it was to have Starfleet using the same model of science vessel for nearly a hundred years.

Well, more like "we are getting our goddamn money's worth out of this model we built for the movies"

Goat · Feb 27, 2017

Forgothrax said:
Plan for the Kepler seems to be to have the Science of an Ambassador, Presence of an Excelsior-A, and basically the other stats of a Miranda-A, except possibly slightly less Combat and slightly higher Defense. In other words, the perfect peacetime garrison ship.

If I understand correctly, they would basically replace the Oberth and Centaur-A designs altogether, with the only reason to build more Miranda-As would be for their cheap combat stats. Ideally a typical Internal Garrison would be an Excelsior-A or Rennie with two->to how ever many are required to hit Defence requirements Keplars. The Border zones would have some Keplars as well, but would have more Explorers/Cruisers and be where the remaining Miranda-As hang out.

To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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