So, these numbers seem to suggest that the Federation would spank the Cardassians like a red-headed step-child in the event of a war. I mean, to use insanely conservative estimates, if half our total strength gets tied up fighting the Syndicate, and the Cardassians manage to build 50 more combat worth of ships, we'd still have 150 more Combat than them. Member fleets op, plz nerf.
The problem is that our forces are needed across all the federation and some need to keep guard on our borders and against pirates. One advantage to sending task force 2 to hunt Syndicate space assests is it reduces the number of ships we would need to guard against Syndicate raids if we get into a shooting war. Also those forces are spread out over a large area and would take time to concentrate.
 
In general, a concentrated fleet spends itself more dearly than a dispersed one. Keeping a fleet dispersed in the expectation of reinforcements we've already committed to other tasks, or are likely to commit to other tasks, struck me as unwise. Thus, it seemed prudent to concentrate the immediately available forces.

Not if we're covering all scenarios including surprise.

If the Cardassians have to commit a peer fleet that is capable of defeating both the CBZ squadron and the Indorion fleet in a single battle... That is considerably more difficult for them than if they have to commit a fleet that can defeat one of them, then await reinforcements before tackling the other.

The Cardassians have other commitments and problems. Such as the threat of the Apiata attacking them with the aid of the Explorer Corps. Such as the possibility of the Seyek joining the war on our side. Such as the need to hold down Bajor. It may well be that while they can easily budget enough force to overrun Starbase Nine and its Combat 17 squadron, and then to menace Indorion space, they might struggle to overrun Starbase Nine if the squadron is joined by, say, 15-20 Combat worth of Indorion warships!

The Cardassians cannot simply press 'delete' and make the forces at Starbase Nine disappear, even if they do happen to have a powerful force available to fight it with.

The Cardassians cannot attack on this front without the ability to defeat the CBZ forces, the Indorian fleet, and the Apiata fleet. Or at least tie up one of the three while hitting the rest. They have to commit enough forces to take on the entire Apinae sector or they fail forever at war. You are vastly underestimating the amount of forces the Cardassians would throw at us if they meant to go to war. Would have to throw at us.

I suppose my point is simply that I had honestly not considered a strategy of assuming that in the event of war, the CBZ fleet, Starbase Nine, and the entire Indorion sphere of influence were to be basically written off as 'expended in a delaying action.' Or that pursuant to such a strategy, it would make sense to keep our forces dispersed, rather than concentrated so as to have the greatest chance of selling their lives dearly as opposed to cheaply.

How can the Cardassians tell themselves "yes, GO TIME, war on the Federation!" if they can't even overwhelm the border forces and fortifications? They're not stupid. They know the size of the CBZ, Indorian, and Apiata fleets. They know the Starbase exists. What possible war plan would not account for enough force to defeat the border garrison? You're assuming that the Cardassians are militarily stupid, something we have taken great pains not to assume.

Either we have enough forces to deter the Cardassians, in which case they do not guarantee Celos and do not attack, or we do not, in which case the Cardassians must attack in enough force to break through. Any less is handing them the idiot ball.
 
[x][SOE] Arrange for an SoE immediately following a Cardassian guarantee for Celos

I don't have much of a head for tactics, but this is a pretty cut and dry choice from where I'm sitting. it makes war less likely unless Cardassia guarantees the rebels support, and frankly if they are doing that war already far more likely than not anyways. If it gives an advantage in the event of war that's useful, but the main thing is that it acts as a deterrent by making it clear to Cardassia that if they push on this it will be a shooting war.

sometimes the best chance for peace it to let the other guy know that your not afraid of war.
The difference between High Alert is an internal difference, not an external one.

We notice, but they won't. Plus, they don't pay attention to our affairs.

Plus, we will still have the opportunity if they attack to declare an Emergency.
 
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We are the greatest rival. The hell they don't.

This. Not only do the Cardassians have their own intelligence apparatus, they also have the freaking Lecarre as a client race. And the Federation is specifically Bad At Information Security. To the point that we don't even try to hide a lot of stuff that'd be classified secrets among our rival powers. Info on our fleet composition and strength is publicly-disseminated information. Take it as a given that the Cardassians absolutely have all the information on our deployments, and be pleasantly surprised if that info is only a month or two out of date.
 
The difference between High Alert is an internal difference, not an external one.

We notice, but they won't. Plus, they don't pay attention to our affairs.

Plus, we will still have the opportunity if they attack to declare an Emergency.

ok let me spell it out clearly.

[ ][SOE] Arrange for an SoE immediately following a Cardassian guarantee for Celos
(Almost guarantees a move to war following a guarantee of independence, but increases chances of peace short of that)

if they are making a guarantees of independence then the odds of peace drop to near zero, since we will either have to let them move ships through our space to resupply a hostile power, or they will have to back off. the Cardassians making the guarantees and then backing off is them being stupid in the opposite direction that they have been for as long as we have known them, and letting them setup a military base in our space is not going to happen. so to my mind a guarantee of independence already has like a 95% chance of leading to war, making it 100% to make it less likely to come to that is a net increase in the odds of ending this without a war.
 
the exact description of the action is it makes war less likely unless the Cardassians guarantee independence, and if they are supporting someone we are having a shooting war with inside our own borders then we are almost certainly already going to be going to war with them. Basically if the downside comes up, war was likely going to happen anyways.

the only situation where this action hurts us would be if the cardassians made the guarantee and then went back on it, and that's only going to happen if they decide to break character in a rather dramatic way. It is an overall decrease in the odds of war occurring.
My concern is that it "makes the war less likely," but not necessarily by a large enough degree to compensate for the way it ties our hands.

If the Cardassians declare support and try a 'Cuban Missile Crisis' strategy of sending an aid convoy to Celos and daring us to stop them, we've just declared a state of emergency and assumed dictatorial powers... to deal with a single squadron. The Sousa admiralty is discredited and we end up looking stupid and/or tyrannical.

Conversely, if the Cardassians do something we aren't planning for (like massing their fleets in preparation for a rapid strike into our space before declaring support for Celos), the political situation is thrown into confusion. Our commitment to declare the state of emergency after the Cardassians declare support becomes a leash holding us back, rather than a guide wire leading us forward.

I really don't think it's a good idea, when reading event description text like "more chance of X, less chance of Y," to assume much more chance of X, much less chance of Y, and that issues A, B, and Z won't come into the picture..

So, these numbers seem to suggest that the Federation would spank the Cardassians like a red-headed step-child in the event of a war. I mean, to use insanely conservative estimates, if half our total strength gets tied up fighting the Syndicate, and the Cardassians manage to build 50 more combat worth of ships, we'd still have 150 more Combat than them. Member fleets op, plz nerf.
One complicating issue is that we really can't afford to commit ALL our member world forces in any one place.

It'd put us at risk of the Klingons or Romulans trying to render the issue that motivates their plan to fight each other irrelevant by jumping us and wrecking our worlds- and yes they're on good terms with us, but if we bare our throat entirely in a once-per-century opportunity for them to strike, who knows what might happen?

Furthermore, many of our member worlds will object to their fleet taking heavy losses on the other side of Federation space. The Vulcans will not be amused if half their forces are wiped out in an unlucky battle against the Dawiar or Cardassians. The political fallout could cause us to win the battle, but lose the war- or lose the war but win the peace.

So yes, the member world fleets have vast total strength... but our ability to rapidly tap into that strength to force a quick end to a crisis is limited.

The only question I have is if the Kadeshi mothership is still a giant bloody needle.
Their motherships, which are merely the size of big cruisers or explorers, are.

The Pride of Kadesh, which is in a weight category all its own that I can only term 'grandmothership,' is shaped like a big space banana. Because of course it is.

Not if we're covering all scenarios including surprise.
I'm not covering the scenario of total surprise that effectively allows them to "push delete" on every single ship they find in a particular star system, a la Pearl Harbor, because I don't consider that a realistic outcome given the level of alert we've been operating at.

When surprise is not total, reinforcing the outposts and positions most likely to be attacked can make a major difference. There's a reason it's one of the things you routinely do in warfare when you expect the enemy to attack.

The Cardassians cannot attack on this front without the ability to defeat the CBZ forces, the Indorian fleet, and the Apiata fleet. Or at least tie up one of the three while hitting the rest. They have to commit enough forces to take on the entire Apinae sector or they fail forever at war. You are vastly underestimating the amount of forces the Cardassians would throw at us if they meant to go to war. Would have to throw at us.

How can the Cardassians tell themselves "yes, GO TIME, war on the Federation!" if they can't even overwhelm the border forces and fortifications? They're not stupid. They know the size of the CBZ, Indorian, and Apiata fleets. They know the Starbase exists. What possible war plan would not account for enough force to defeat the border garrison? You're assuming that the Cardassians are militarily stupid, something we have taken great pains not to assume.

Either we have enough forces to deter the Cardassians, in which case they do not guarantee Celos and do not attack, or we do not, in which case the Cardassians must attack in enough force to break through. Any less is handing them the idiot ball.
If the Cardassians have enough force to break through, but not vastly more force than they need to break through, concentrating our forces still makes sense.

It makes it more likely that the combined force will avoid near-total destruction, by creating a situation where the Cardassians are forced to choose between taking heavy losses themselves or allowing the combined force to escape.

It makes it much more likely that we can seriously damage their forces while being pushed back, instead of having scattered forces just get steamrollered and crushed without making a meaningful dent. Two Combat 20 forces fighting separately at different times will not make as much impression on an enemy Combat 60 fleet as a single Combat 40 fleet would.

It makes it more likely that (through luck, exploitation of fixed defenses, creative use of 'terrain,' or a tactical blunder on the part of a Cardassian field commander) we can make an effective stand. One that temporarily stalls their attack or forces them to lick their wounds and wait for reinforcements before proceeding,

A force that is outnumbered 3:1 gets steamrolled immediately. Two forces, both separately outnumbered 3:1, still get steamrollered; it just takes longer. One combined force outnumbered 3:2 may not be able to win in the long run, but it is much more likely to force caution and delay on the enemy commander.

There is, I repeat, a good reason why "divided his command in the face of the enemy" tends to be the kind of thing that goes in bad reviews of a military commander's performance, not good ones.
 
My concern is that it "makes the war less likely," but not necessarily by a large enough degree to compensate for the way it ties our hands.

If the Cardassians declare support and try a 'Cuban Missile Crisis' strategy of sending an aid convoy to Celos and daring us to stop them, we've just declared a state of emergency and assumed dictatorial powers... to deal with a single squadron. The Sousa admiralty is discredited and we end up looking stupid and/or tyrannical.

Conversely, if the Cardassians do something we aren't planning for (like massing their fleets in preparation for a rapid strike into our space before declaring support for Celos), the political situation is thrown into confusion. Our commitment to declare the state of emergency after the Cardassians declare support becomes a leash holding us back, rather than a guide wire leading us forward.

I really don't think it's a good idea, when reading event description text like "more chance of X, less chance of Y," to assume much more chance of X, much less chance of Y, and that issues A, B, and Z won't come into the picture..

One complicating issue is that we really can't afford to commit ALL our member world forces in any one place.

It'd put us at risk of the Klingons or Romulans trying to render the issue that motivates their plan to fight each other irrelevant by jumping us and wrecking our worlds- and yes they're on good terms with us, but if we bare our throat entirely in a once-per-century opportunity for them to strike, who knows what might happen?

Furthermore, many of our member worlds will object to their fleet taking heavy losses on the other side of Federation space. The Vulcans will not be amused if half their forces are wiped out in an unlucky battle against the Dawiar or Cardassians. The political fallout could cause us to win the battle, but lose the war- or lose the war but win the peace.

So yes, the member world fleets have vast total strength... but our ability to rapidly tap into that strength to force a quick end to a crisis is limited.

Their motherships, which are merely the size of big cruisers or explorers, are.

The Pride of Kadesh, which is in a weight category all its own that I can only term 'grandmothership,' is shaped like a big space banana. Because of course it is.

I'm not covering the scenario of total surprise that effectively allows them to "push delete" on every single ship they find in a particular star system, a la Pearl Harbor, because I don't consider that a realistic outcome given the level of alert we've been operating at.

When surprise is not total, reinforcing the outposts and positions most likely to be attacked can make a major difference. There's a reason it's one of the things you routinely do in warfare when you expect the enemy to attack.

If the Cardassians have enough force to break through, but not vastly more force than they need to break through, concentrating our forces still makes sense.

It makes it more likely that the combined force will avoid near-total destruction, by creating a situation where the Cardassians are forced to choose between taking heavy losses themselves or allowing the combined force to escape.

It makes it much more likely that we can seriously damage their forces while being pushed back, instead of having scattered forces just get steamrollered and crushed without making a meaningful dent. Two Combat 20 forces fighting separately at different times will not make as much impression on an enemy Combat 60 fleet as a single Combat 40 fleet would.

It makes it more likely that (through luck, exploitation of fixed defenses, creative use of 'terrain,' or a tactical blunder on the part of a Cardassian field commander) we can make an effective stand. One that temporarily stalls their attack or forces them to lick their wounds and wait for reinforcements before proceeding,

A force that is outnumbered 3:1 gets steamrolled immediately. Two forces, both separately outnumbered 3:1, still get steamrollered; it just takes longer. One combined force outnumbered 3:2 may not be able to win in the long run, but it is much more likely to force caution and delay on the enemy commander.

There is, I repeat, a good reason why "divided his command in the face of the enemy" tends to be the kind of thing that goes in bad reviews of a military commander's performance, not good ones.

You have to remember that the Cardassians can't just charge hard to Starbase 9 and Indoria.

Because if they don't watch out the Seyek are going to drive the Bajoran Government in exile home for a nice loooong visit.
 
et steamrollered; it just takes longer. One combined force outnumbered 3:2 may not be able to win in the long run, but it is much more likely to force caution and delay on the enemy commander.

There is, I repeat, a good reason why "divided his command in the face of the enemy" tends to be the kind of thing that goes in bad reviews of a military commander's performance, not good ones.

On the other hand, keeping the Sydraxians out of the war is probably worth more than being able to move the Indorian fleet around. It's not like people are voting against the Indorian diplomatic option because they think it wouldn't be useful. It's because they value other things higher.

Matters with the Sydraxians are at a critical point. We got the Yrillians and Gretarians in place, and right now is when the Diplomatic Corps is making its push. Someone said that 'two weeks' couldn't possibly make a difference. Well on the 'we aren't being given stupid options' theory I have to assume that it would, or at least potentially could, or 'tell the Diplomatic Corps to stay on the Sydraxians" wouldn't be an option. I don't want to jeopardize a major foreign policy push that is intended to prevent a war in exchange for a short term tactical advantage.
 
On the other hand, keeping the Sydraxians out of the war is probably worth more than being able to move the Indorian fleet around. It's not like people are voting against the Indorian diplomatic option because they think it wouldn't be useful. It's because they value other things higher.

Matters with the Sydraxians are at a critical point. We got the Yrillians and Gretarians in place, and right now is when the Diplomatic Corps is making its push. Someone said that 'two weeks' couldn't possibly make a difference. Well on the 'we aren't being given stupid options' theory I have to assume that it would, or at least potentially could, or 'tell the Diplomatic Corps to stay on the Sydraxians" wouldn't be an option. I don't want to jeopardize a major foreign policy push that is intended to prevent a war in exchange for a short term tactical advantage.

My reasoning exactly. If the Cardassians are even a little uncertain of Sydraxian support all of a sudden they might back off further instead of fighting us.

Or even if the Cardassians do fight us, if the Sydraxians stay out of the war that's dozens of points of Apiata and EC Combat aimed right at Cardassia
 
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How fast can we replace losses if we fight the incoming Cardassian fleet if they are hostile?
 
I'm not covering the scenario of total surprise that effectively allows them to "push delete" on every single ship they find in a particular star system, a la Pearl Harbor, because I don't consider that a realistic outcome given the level of alert we've been operating at.

When surprise is not total, reinforcing the outposts and positions most likely to be attacked can make a major difference. There's a reason it's one of the things you routinely do in warfare when you expect the enemy to attack.

If the Cardassians have enough force to break through, but not vastly more force than they need to break through, concentrating our forces still makes sense.

It makes it more likely that the combined force will avoid near-total destruction, by creating a situation where the Cardassians are forced to choose between taking heavy losses themselves or allowing the combined force to escape.

It makes it much more likely that we can seriously damage their forces while being pushed back, instead of having scattered forces just get steamrollered and crushed without making a meaningful dent. Two Combat 20 forces fighting separately at different times will not make as much impression on an enemy Combat 60 fleet as a single Combat 40 fleet would.

It makes it more likely that (through luck, exploitation of fixed defenses, creative use of 'terrain,' or a tactical blunder on the part of a Cardassian field commander) we can make an effective stand. One that temporarily stalls their attack or forces them to lick their wounds and wait for reinforcements before proceeding,

A force that is outnumbered 3:1 gets steamrolled immediately. Two forces, both separately outnumbered 3:1, still get steamrollered; it just takes longer. One combined force outnumbered 3:2 may not be able to win in the long run, but it is much more likely to force caution and delay on the enemy commander.

There is, I repeat, a good reason why "divided his command in the face of the enemy" tends to be the kind of thing that goes in bad reviews of a military commander's performance, not good ones.

I'm considering defeat in detail, but from the much broader perspective of the entire theatre. Your idea of combining the fleets and making a stand invites defeat in detail in a far more severe way than scattering smaller forces that can regroup in strength later. If surprise is achieved, we lose one force at 3:1 and the other gets away. If surprise is not achieved, both forces can be preserved. Depending on Cardassian strength, we can decide when and where to make a stand, but we are not forced to do so on only best guesses.

Cardassian strength must be enough to defeat our forces locally, or they would not go to war, so the idea that we can make an effective stand immediately is to me, not sensible.

The lessons of Ghosts and Whispers indicate to me that slapping a concentrated enemy with a big fleet is actually rather ineffective in the case where we have sensor superiority. Remember, T'Lorel believed that the Cardassians could converge on her at any time. The same idea applies in reverse against a concentrated fleet with a dispersed one. So long as we have freedom to attack, which we do in the case of war.

Your suggestion pins what could become our best theatre asset to defending SB9. That is not a wise choice to precommit to, and does not acknowledge the strategic situation.
 
You have to remember that the Cardassians can't just charge hard to Starbase 9 and Indoria.

Because if they don't watch out the Seyek are going to drive the Bajoran Government in exile home for a nice loooong visit.
Yes.

The Cardassians have to maintain strength on at least four fronts that we know of, and possibly other, unknown fronts. They can't be strong everywhere. If they commit a massive, overwhelming force to Indorion space, well... if I'm the one drawing up the war plan, the forces around Indorion space concentrate as best they can and fall back slowly, giving ground grudgingly and trying to inflict damage on the enemy in the process. We keep pushing reinforcements in as we can, if necessary pulling member world fleets off deep space duty and anti-Syndicate duty.

But our real strategy in that case is to make enough trouble with the Explorer Corps and the Apiata on one flank, and the Seyek on the other, that the Cardassians have to pull force out of that big push and disperse it along other parts of the front...

On the other hand, keeping the Sydraxians out of the war is probably worth more than being able to move the Indorian fleet around. It's not like people are voting against the Indorian diplomatic option because they think it wouldn't be useful. It's because they value other things higher.

Matters with the Sydraxians are at a critical point. We got the Yrillians and Gretarians in place, and right now is when the Diplomatic Corps is making its push. Someone said that 'two weeks' couldn't possibly make a difference. Well on the 'we aren't being given stupid options' theory I have to assume that it would, or at least potentially could, or 'tell the Diplomatic Corps to stay on the Sydraxians" wouldn't be an option. I don't want to jeopardize a major foreign policy push that is intended to prevent a war in exchange for a short term tactical advantage.
My own position has been, all along, that I simply don't expect the negotiations with the Sydraxians to bear fruit for months. We're close, but I didn't think we were that close. If you disagree with me about that, then I fully respect your position and it has good internal logic.

How fast can we replace losses if we fight the incoming Cardassian fleet if they are hostile?
If fleets fight each other aggressively, and we can't suddenly speed up our ship construction by like a factor of ten, ships will get blown up faster than they can be rebuilt.

On the other hand, the last time anyone fought a war in our setting where we were in a good position to know what at least one side was thinking, the war took a long time and neither side moved very aggressively, because nobody wanted to get their fleet wrecked by screwing up.

Our biggest wartime hope is that the sheer size of our forces combined with those of our numerous member worlds will let us put more total strength out there and inflict disproportionate losses on the enemy.

I must also note that as yet we do not actually know a Cardassian fleet IS incoming. If that happens, much damage we can do to it depends on where it goes, what we have nearby to fight it with, and how strong it is.
 
Wow, gone for most of the day and come home to 20 pages of contentious thread. Yay?

[X][SOE] Arrange for an SoE immediately following a Cardassian guarantee for Celos.
[X][SFTF1] Support Operations on Celos
[X][SFTF2] Hunt and Destroy Syndicate Space forces
[X][UETF] Support Operations on Freedom
[X][ATF] Escort shipping
[X][CBZ] Focus on defence of Starbase 9 at Lapycorias
[X][SBZ] Focus on defence of Square 0d
[X][DIPLO] Remain focused on Sydraxians

If the Cardassians declare for Celos I can't see a way this doesn't end in war, same as if we declared support for the Bajoran Resistance. If they don't we don't declare an SOE.

My CBZ and SBZ choices are for defending our borders. My Diplo choice is because this is the best shot at getting the Sydraxians we've had and backing off them now will probably have negative impacts on our Gretarian and Yrillian relations.

Keeping the Amarki away from Celos as that's too much like an invasion force. Instead they can hunt down the Syndicate space forces and eliminate them from play. Which they'll probably be happier doing anyways.

SFTF1 to Celos as they have the Anti-Syndicate experience that I want focused there to stop this from escalating any further. Hopefully they can take the planet back in 2 weeks. I'd think this would actually be easier then before as there are now a series of well known installations to assault instead of another police/guerrilla campaign with our enemies hiding amid the civilians.
 
I really don't think it's a good idea, when reading event description text like "more chance of X, less chance of Y," to assume much more chance of X, much less chance of Y, and that issues A, B, and Z won't come into the picture..

I'm not assuming much more chance of X, I'm assuming if the Cardassians decide to back the syndicate then were going to be shooting at them shortly anyways. there are odd edge cases where this will result in us going to war when we would otherwise have had an acceptable peace, but I don't think they are very likely.
 
My own position has been, all along, that I simply don't expect the negotiations with the Sydraxians to bear fruit for months. We're close, but I didn't think we were that close. If you disagree with me about that, then I fully respect your position and it has good internal logic.

I think we are that close to actually opening up diplomatic contact with the Sydraxians. That's not to say that they're going to call off the war, but if they would at least start talking to us then it would be a major victory, and I think we're real close to a make-or-break. If they aren't at least willing to give us a list of grievances with both the Gretarians and the Yrillians nagging them about it then nothing will work.

Remember that at the end of this month the Council's deadline for concrete progress with the Sydraxians expires, so I assume that the Diplomatic Service is trying to get something to show for their efforts by then.
 
Something to bear in mind is the Kadeshi fleet is in Apiata space, which has their own strong fleet and there are what, two or three explorer corp ships in the area (one of which is accompanying them) and also there is a Honiani explorer there as well. That is a large amount of weight of ships and may give the Cardassians pause. Since they would need to attack an area with Outposts and Starbases up around Apiata that would give us time to know they are coming. More so if we concentrate the SBZ force nearby like what is currently winning as that could move and reinforce quickly. If our CBZ forces fall back to Indoria that is around 48 combat plus an outpost so a bit over 50 all told, and they have the Seyek to the south that may or may not join. Hitting the Seyek first though would give us more time for our own fleets to mobilize and they have to consider Task force 2 coming in as reinforcements.

I do imagine they have some plans to engage us and get what they hope are favorable results however attacking into an area that the enemy has sensors and you do not allows them to be more likely to decline battle. If our fleet can it can shadow their fleet, while our reinforcements gather and then swing up to join in a hammer and anvil. And they know that is a risk.

That is probably a big reason I think if they do push it will be with cutouts, first send the border force through the Straits, see if they can't get us to act aggressive which may convince some of our affiliates to stay neutral and get their clients to go in with them. They have to know we have some discussions with the Dawiar and trying with the Sydraxians and they would want a plan to maximize the chance of them joining in a war to keep our fleets spread out.
 
Something to bear in mind is the Kadeshi fleet is in Apiata space, which has their own strong fleet and there are what, two or three explorer corp ships in the area (one of which is accompanying them) and also there is a Honiani explorer there as well. That is a large amount of weight of ships and may give the Cardassians pause. Since they would need to attack an area with Outposts and Starbases up around Apiata that would give us time to know they are coming. More so if we concentrate the SBZ force nearby like what is currently winning as that could move and reinforce quickly. If our CBZ forces fall back to Indoria that is around 48 combat plus an outpost so a bit over 50 all told, and they have the Seyek to the south that may or may not join. Hitting the Seyek first though would give us more time for our own fleets to mobilize and they have to consider Task force 2 coming in as reinforcements.

I do imagine they have some plans to engage us and get what they hope are favorable results however attacking into an area that the enemy has sensors and you do not allows them to be more likely to decline battle. If our fleet can it can shadow their fleet, while our reinforcements gather and then swing up to join in a hammer and anvil. And they know that is a risk.

That is probably a big reason I think if they do push it will be with cutouts, first send the border force through the Straits, see if they can't get us to act aggressive which may convince some of our affiliates to stay neutral and get their clients to go in with them. They have to know we have some discussions with the Dawiar and trying with the Sydraxians and they would want a plan to maximize the chance of them joining in a war to keep our fleets spread out.

The Kadeshi fleet contains the whole of their species, and I'm not going to make them fight a war which really has nothing to do with them. The Honiani likewise have no real incentive to join the war, and have only known us for a few years besides. The real questions on our side are the Seyek and Qloathi. Their choice will be a major factor in how the war goes. We don't have much information on Cardassian-Seyek interactions, but they were willing to pass on sensor results to us during the Kadek-Tor crisis, which was a good sign. The Qloathi are on good terms with the Dawiar, so they may be reluctant to join the conflict if the Dawiar oppose us. Plus they don't border Cardassia directly and likely haven't been harassed by them.
 
The Kadeshi fleet contains the whole of their species, and I'm not going to make them fight a war which really has nothing to do with them. The Honiani likewise have no real incentive to join the war, and have only known us for a few years besides. The real questions on our side are the Seyek and Qloathi. Their choice will be a major factor in how the war goes. We don't have much information on Cardassian-Seyek interactions, but they were willing to pass on sensor results to us during the Kadek-Tor crisis, which was a good sign. The Qloathi are on good terms with the Dawiar, so they may be reluctant to join the conflict if the Dawiar oppose us. Plus they don't border Cardassia directly and likely haven't been harassed by them.
Oh I have no intention of drawing them in, I am just saying those have to factor into the Cardassian calculations as they do not know if the Kadeshi and Honiani will join us or not. Qloathi having good relations with the Dawiar though has to concern Cardassian analysis as well since that may cause the Dawiar to stay neutral. Or it may try to force them to have us fire first to try and get powers like the Seyek and Qloathi to stay neutral while the Dawiar join in.
 
The Kadeshi fleet contains the whole of their species, and I'm not going to make them fight a war which really has nothing to do with them. The Honiani likewise have no real incentive to join the war, and have only known us for a few years besides. The real questions on our side are the Seyek and Qloathi. Their choice will be a major factor in how the war goes. We don't have much information on Cardassian-Seyek interactions, but they were willing to pass on sensor results to us during the Kadek-Tor crisis, which was a good sign. The Qloathi are on good terms with the Dawiar, so they may be reluctant to join the conflict if the Dawiar oppose us. Plus they don't border Cardassia directly and likely haven't been harassed by them.

IIRC, the Seyek are hosting the Bajoran government-in-exile, so one gets the impression they aren't on the best of terms with the Cardassians.
 
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