Klingons to Gaeni: "Hold! This step, here." "What about it?" "It says blow up a star. There is an ancient Klingon proverb: any time your plan includes blowing up a star, you should have considered simpler alternatives."

Soran, from Generations: "But-"

"Silence, peta'Q! You could have just flown a shuttle into the blasted thing!"
 
Klingons to Gaeni: "Hold! This step, here." "What about it?" "It says blow up a star. There is an ancient Klingon proverb: any time your plan includes blowing up a star, you should have considered simpler alternatives."

To be fair, only the Licori have tried to blow up a star and the Gaeni think they're crazy for it. (An argument we may someday have to make to the Ked Paddah as we explain to them that no, we totally have the Gaeni under control, no need for another science suppression war.)
 
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While you can legitimately challenge our claim to "top X-est Y-s in the galaxy" lists, we have excellent evidence of prior art that predates your species development of extraplanetary travel. Furthermore, we can demonstrate that Earthlings have a longstanding patent on "time-wasting and utterly pointless legal battle." While they have not needed to exercise this particular claim in approximately two centuries, as you well know, these things do not expire.

So help us Q, if you press us on this matter, we will start training human lawyers again. And we will unleash this terrifying weapon upon the cosmos. May the galaxy forgive us for what we do.

I envision Lowering The Bar articles being submitted to Q as evidence. It makes me smile. Well done, sir.
 
The "everybody does is" is based off how large real life corporations are starting to handle the proliferation of IP. You can't build anything anymore without violating patents, so the big companies just have an informal agreement that if you sue me, I sue you, and they all have enough patents in their arsenal to make good on the threat. Of course it would be terrible if an individual did it, but if a Dylaarian clan does it, well, that just makes them smart.
Firstly, it sounds like nearly every person is a member of a clan, which changes the game pretty sharply. The people who aren't members of a clan, well, they just can't engage in creative labor; they'd have to be employed on a fixed basis by some clan that handles the rights to whatever minimum of tools and skills are necessary to do their job. At some point this becomes functionally indistinguishable from being adopted into the clan, which gives me an idea I'll go into more detail on later.

Secondly, the existence of a clan structure suggests a certain maximum practical size. Highly successful clans probably undergo 'fission' into multiple clans that jointly profit from the rights to anything discovered by their forebear. So if you take a technology that's been around for several hundred years like "the steam engine," the odds are that by now there are a LOT of people who are members of clans that jointly own the rights because they are ALL descended from (that is, fission byproducts of) the clan that invented the things in the first place.

Thirdly, there is one HUGE difference between the Dylaarian system and that of 2000-era Earth. Corporations can cheaply and easily merge and acquire one another. A corporation can buy up other corporations and effectively 'consume' them in order to obtain their patents. This leads to great fragmentation (since so many large corporations have been buying up all kinds of random individual patents on all kinds of things), and it also leads to situations where a single entity can hold thousands of patents on widely disparate things.

A Dylaarian clan probably can't just "buy out" another clan to obtain its patents. Merging clans may be possible, but it would be rare and would never be as complete a process as "Ogoco bought Sillycorps and now owns every patent Sillycorps had, perfectly simple." This tends to make the process a bit simpler and more discrete, in that there are clans that specialize in specific things. When they run into a problem they can't handle in-house or a use of their technolgoy they can't afford to develop, they HAVE out outsource it by leasing the patent rights.

Nobody can afford to 'hoard' patent rights past a certain point, because no single clan can get large enough to fully exploit the patent on a basic fundamental technology. If you try to just sit on it and make eleventy gazillion dollars by forcing everyone to use your patent, sooner or later one of your relatives will come to you and suggest splitting the clan (and the enormous profits). You have to share the patent rights out among your clan's descendants, if no one else.

The Clan that broke itself apart to become the nameless and put up IP on a open license was one of these. It was directly descended from the Clan that got the IP on metalworking steel back in the day.
Briefvoice said:
Metal-working? Are you envisioning this as a biological determinism from the earliest days of their civilization? I figured it was just how they did things right now, and maybe 500 years ago there was a whole different cultural paradigm.
This leads me to think about just how this system evolved from previous systems. As @AKuz noted, it probably grew out of other ideas that are superficially similar but different in detail. Sort of like how Earthly concepts of land ownership grew out of older concepts of land ownership.

For example, in feudal Europe where nobles were the ones who really 'owned' land, and were legally entitled to enforce laws on their land because they owned it. Go to Europe nowadays and that's not true; ownership of a piece of land no longer entails the right to set the legal code which applies on that land. And the converse is also true (the government being able to tell you what you can and cannot do with your land doesn't mean you don't own it or can't sell it). Likewise, it may be that at some point in the past of the Dylaarian species, cultures would say that whoever held the rights to a particular industrial practice had the sole power to regulate it- but over time that changed.

Theory-time: there was a time before the current system was established. Therefore, every clan has a crack team of archeologists that tries to source every invention back to its roots and prove whomever made it has a direct line to one of the clans. The war that threatned to tear them apart might have been over the massive, upsetting discovery that the owners of the idea of [fundamental thing] were not, in fact, the originators and the idea was going to be owned by another clan entirely, until Steelworking Clan self-sacrificed to create a neutral corps of archeologists and determined a few goods in public interest and thus creative commons or 'effectively ownerless.'
This can be added seamlessly to my idea, on which more below.

...

Perhaps this system evolved out of some kind of caste system, originally, in which there were specific castes of people who did specific types of job.

However, the caste system allowed for adoption or movement from one caste to another, so that the de facto status of the castes was that of semi-hereditary trade unions. This provided a social safety valve that prevented the caste system from becoming the target of revolutionaries; it's hard to build up much resentment against a system that lets you move if you really feel motivated to do so.

Since time immemorial, it was of course customary for castes that engaged in a skilled trade to adopt and develop trade secrets. Furthermore, the castes tended to fission along regional lines (because this was a pre-industrial society and transportation was hard). Also along lines of closely related subcrafts (barrel-makers, house-building carpenters, furniture-making carpenters, wheelwrights, etc.) However, the individual clans that made up these castes retained strong ties to one another and these ties provided them with legally accepted status in Dylaarian communities. At least, in the parts of the planet ancestral to their dominant planetary culture of today, that's what happened.

Now, on Earth, the idea of semi-hereditary craft unions basically got obliterated by the rise of capitalism, because the new technologies in machinery and metalworking and so on were owned by individual investors who simply ignored the question "well, what are you doing to the livelihood of all those blacksmiths?" Due to the way that the legal systems worked in the dominant planetary culture of Dylaar, that wasn't possible, for whatever reason.

So imagine that some monocle-wearing giant gecko of the Dylaarian equivalent of the 18th century decided to build a huge industrialized ironworks that used totally new principles. Thing is, the Association of Blacksmith Sub-Castes or whatever successfully challenged that Dylaarian capitalist in court, pointing out that while she might own the idea of heating the iron in a crucible in such and such a way, she clearly did not own the concept of "melting iron to do such and such."

Someone wants to build a railroad? Well clearly the Guild-Clan-Thing of Coal Miners can show prior art in that they've been using carts on rails to transport coal for centuries. You're just scaling up the concept, which is great and all... but either you have to share the profits with them, or you have to apply to be adopted into their clan. While paying off the Animal Drovers' Clan-Caste-Guild-Thing, who are the only ones who are entitled to drive the oxen-equivalents that pull the carts.

Oh, you built a machine that does an ox's job? Great! But you still have to pay the Drovers' Clan-Caste-Whatever, because they own the idea 'hitch this to that to make this go.' Or something.

The result of this is that the Dylaarian equivalent of the Industrial Revolution wound up being modulated through the pre-existing system. The legal basis of "own the rights to ideas" would have changed drastically during this time, of course. But there are some positive side effects. For instance, the capital/labor divide as we know it would be greatly reduced, because turning investment capital into a successful business has to be modulated through a large clan. You can outcompete a rival steelworking clan, but it's a lot easier to join them with your superior modifications to their old technique, as compared to trying to beat them with it.

The adoption mechanism means that people tend to gradually shift away from clans that are shrinking and lack resources, into clans that have them. I imagine that there were a LOT of people who abandoned the Farmer Caste-Clan-Alliance-Guild-Thing during the Dylaarian version of the 19th and early 20th centuries, and were adopted into craft clans. But within each clan the atmosphere is kind of like a worker's co-op; the entire population of the clan is, so far as possible, involved in making the clan's key IP rights and ideas into a success.

There would almost certainly be a recognizable government, with associated clans descended from the castes that used to govern the system. However, about the only patents these groups would hold are those directly related to administration... And yet they have a lot of influence and power because it's agreed upon that they're the ones who oversee important concepts like "jail" and "taxes." They're also the ones who are arbitrating most of the patent disputes that cannot be settled amicably.

Lateral movement into and out of these clans is possible, if it's what you want, and if you're acceptable to them. Presumably, the society would tend to evolve to permit lateral movement at a rate that causes things not to fall apart, or the parts of society where it doesn't would tend to falter compared to other parts that do.

It honestly might take these guys a long time to get their act together and get into space, but I think it's possible. Especially if you remember that the clans which own the ideas are not the same as the pure-profit corporate entities that tend to own important ideas on Earth.
 
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Speaking of aliens, the Qloathi are integrating this quarter. We know very little about them from updates other than they're explorers with decent local diplomacy and pretty, modern ships.

That will make the Dawiar awfully surrounded, once we turn the fuzzy dot into a light blue blob.
e: ALso hopefully we'll learn where the Qloathi's colonies are.
 
Firstly, it sounds like nearly every person is a member of a clan, which changes the game pretty sharply. The people who aren't members of a clan, well, they just can't engage in creative labor; they'd have to be employed on a fixed basis by some clan that handles the rights to whatever minimum of tools and skills are necessary to do their job. At some point this becomes functionally indistinguishable from being adopted into the clan, which gives me an idea I'll go into more detail on later.

Secondly, the existence of a clan structure suggests a certain maximum practical size. Highly successful clans probably undergo 'fission' into multiple clans that jointly profit from the rights to anything discovered by their forebear. So if you take a technology that's been around for several hundred years like "the steam engine," the odds are that by now there are a LOT of people who are members of clans that jointly own the rights because they are ALL descended from (that is, fission byproducts of) the clan that invented the things in the first place.

Thirdly, there is one HUGE difference between the Dylaarian system and that of 2000-era Earth. Corporations can cheaply and easily merge and acquire one another. A corporation can buy up other corporations and effectively 'consume' them in order to obtain their patents. This leads to great fragmentation (since so many large corporations have been buying up all kinds of random individual patents on all kinds of things), and it also leads to situations where a single entity can hold thousands of patents on widely disparate things.

A Dylaarian clan probably can't just "buy out" another clan to obtain its patents. Merging clans may be possible, but it would be rare and would never be as complete a process as "Ogoco bought Sillycorps and now owns every patent Sillycorps had, perfectly simple." This tends to make the process a bit simpler and more discrete, in that there are clans that specialize in specific things. When they run into a problem they can't handle in-house or a use of their technolgoy they can't afford to develop, they HAVE out outsource it by leasing the patent rights.

Nobody can afford to 'hoard' patent rights past a certain point, because no single clan can get large enough to fully exploit the patent on a basic fundamental technology. If you try to just sit on it and make eleventy gazillion dollars by forcing everyone to use your patent, sooner or later one of your relatives will come to you and suggest splitting the clan (and the enormous profits). You have to share the patent rights out among your clan's descendants, if no one else.

This leads me to think about just how this system evolved from previous systems. As @AKuz noted, it probably grew out of other ideas that are superficially similar but different in detail. Sort of like how Earthly concepts of land ownership grew out of older concepts of land ownership.

For example, in feudal Europe where nobles were the ones who really 'owned' land, and were legally entitled to enforce laws on their land because they owned it. Go to Europe nowadays and that's not true; ownership of a piece of land no longer entails the right to set the legal code which applies on that land. And the converse is also true (the government being able to tell you what you can and cannot do with your land doesn't mean you don't own it or can't sell it). Likewise, it may be that at some point in the past of the Dylaarian species, cultures would say that whoever held the rights to a particular industrial practice had the sole power to regulate it- but over time that changed.

This can be added seamlessly to my idea, on which more below.

...

Perhaps this system evolved out of some kind of caste system, originally, in which there were specific castes of people who did specific types of job.

However, the caste system allowed for adoption or movement from one caste to another, so that the de facto status of the castes was that of semi-hereditary trade unions. This provided a social safety valve that prevented the caste system from becoming the target of revolutionaries; it's hard to build up much resentment against a system that lets you move if you really feel motivated to do so.

Since time immemorial, it was of course customary for castes that engaged in a skilled trade to adopt and develop trade secrets. Furthermore, the castes tended to fission along regional lines (because this was a pre-industrial society and transportation was hard). Also along lines of closely related subcrafts (barrel-makers, house-building carpenters, furniture-making carpenters, wheelwrights, etc.) However, the individual clans that made up these castes retained strong ties to one another and these ties provided them with legally accepted status in Dylaarian communities. At least, in the parts of the planet ancestral to their dominant planetary culture of today, that's what happened.

Now, on Earth, the idea of semi-hereditary craft unions basically got obliterated by the rise of capitalism, because the new technologies in machinery and metalworking and so on were owned by individual investors who simply ignored the question "well, what are you doing to the livelihood of all those blacksmiths?" Due to the way that the legal systems worked in the dominant planetary culture of Dylaar, that wasn't possible, for whatever reason.

So imagine that some monocle-wearing giant gecko of the Dylaarian equivalent of the 18th century decided to build a huge industrialized ironworks that used totally new principles. Thing is, the Association of Blacksmith Sub-Castes or whatever successfully challenged that Dylaarian capitalist in court, pointing out that while she might own the idea of heating the iron in a crucible in such and such a way, she clearly did not own the concept of "melting iron to do such and such."

Someone wants to build a railroad? Well clearly the Guild-Clan-Thing of Coal Miners can show prior art in that they've been using carts on rails to transport coal for centuries. You're just scaling up the concept, which is great and all... but either you have to share the profits with them, or you have to apply to be adopted into their clan. While paying off the Animal Drovers' Clan-Caste-Guild-Thing, who are the only ones who are entitled to drive the oxen-equivalents that pull the carts.

Oh, you built a machine that does an ox's job? Great! But you still have to pay the Drovers' Clan-Caste-Whatever, because they own the idea 'hitch this to that to make this go.' Or something.

The result of this is that the Dylaarian equivalent of the Industrial Revolution wound up being modulated through the pre-existing system. The legal basis of "own the rights to ideas" would have changed drastically during this time, of course. But there are some positive side effects. For instance, the capital/labor divide as we know it would be greatly reduced, because turning investment capital into a successful business has to be modulated through a large clan. You can outcompete a rival steelworking clan, but it's a lot easier to join them with your superior modifications to their old technique, as compared to trying to beat them with it.

The adoption mechanism means that people tend to gradually shift away from clans that are shrinking and lack resources, into clans that have them. I imagine that there were a LOT of people who abandoned the Farmer Caste-Clan-Alliance-Guild-Thing during the Dylaarian version of the 19th and early 20th centuries, and were adopted into craft clans. But within each clan the atmosphere is kind of like a worker's co-op; the entire population of the clan is, so far as possible, involved in making the clan's key IP rights and ideas into a success.

There would almost certainly be a recognizable government, with associated clans descended from the castes that used to govern the system. However, about the only patents these groups would hold are those directly related to administration... And yet they have a lot of influence and power because it's agreed upon that they're the ones who oversee important concepts like "jail" and "taxes." They're also the ones who are arbitrating most of the patent disputes that cannot be settled amicably.

Lateral movement into and out of these clans is possible, if it's what you want, and if you're acceptable to them. Presumably, the society would tend to evolve to permit lateral movement at a rate that causes things not to fall apart, or the parts of society where it doesn't would tend to falter compared to other parts that do.

It honestly might take these guys a long time to get their act together and get into space, but I think it's possible. Especially if you remember that the clans which own the ideas are not the same as the pure-profit corporate entities that tend to own important ideas on Earth.

Okay. That was well thought out and all. And I appreciate it. I really do.

But the main thing that I am getting from that is that I need giant 18th century gecko with a monocle in my life /right now/
 
I wonder if we can get a Snakepit option once they have 100 relationship to use fair means or foul to pry them away from the Cardassians. They're quite the security threat...
They're actually in a really bad strategic position - for them as independants or Cardassian clients.

We've pretty much locked in the Seyek, Risans and Qloath. Those three joining leaves the Dawair basically enveloped by our territory AND puts a very powerful member squarely between them and the Cardassians.
 
The Dawiar are a manageable threat in my opinion, because all we really have to do in order to stalemate them is keep the Caitian and Andorian navies watching them. Furthermore, we're likely to be able to persuade them to declare neutrality in the event of any war that doesn't directly involve them in the opening phase.

I'd honestly say "let the Dawiar be for now," because we have like four major crisis areas to deal with at the moment and our resources are limited. We don't have enough spare Federation ships to constitute a fleet capable of beating down the Dawiar militarily or stopping a large Cardassian task force that attacks their space. We don't have enough spare political will to spend another thirty points getting a special session on the 'Dawiar issue.'

We don't want a repeat of the Bajor outcome. There, we pushed too hard to recruit a new affiliate, only for the Cardassians to pre-empt our diplomatic manuever with a military maneuver. So whenever we actually try to recruit the Dawiar, we want to do it while we're in a position to interfere if the Cardassians use force.

If it doesn't come down to war within the next year or two... Well, hopefully we'll have already persuaded the Sydraxians that being our friend is better than being Cardassia's friend, at which point we can free up a LOT of ships and assets, and we'll be in a better position to stop Cardassia from trying that.

If it DOES come down to war with Cardassia... Well, our member world forces will be free to act, and the Cardassian fleets won't have the initiative to try anything particularly bold like sailing into the heart of space we and our affiliates occupy for a month, because they'll be very busy dealing with the rest of the front against us.

Assuming that we get to handle war mobilization the way we did against the Biophage, one of our first actions should be to mobilize an External Diplomacy asset to persuade the Dawiar to remain neutral. I think we can do that without much difficulty, especially if we're prepared to make a few concessions.
 
They're actually in a really bad strategic position - for them as independants or Cardassian clients.

We've pretty much locked in the Seyek, Risans and Qloath. Those three joining leaves the Dawair basically enveloped by our territory AND puts a very powerful member squarely between them and the Cardassians.

While that is true, they are Space Dwarfs. I don't really want them doing stupid honor shit and tearinga hole in our strategic rear before we put their fleet down for the count. Their existence as a client during peacetime also gives the Cardassians leverage to enter our space under diplomatic guise.

@OneirosTheWriter given that the Diplomatic Service sent a mission to the Dawiar recently, does Sousa know if they plan to woo the Dawiar away from the Cardassians whether we push for it or no?

@Simon_Jester the Cardassians were able to do that because Bajor is in the heart of their territory. Here, the shoe is on another foot.
 
To me, if the Daiwar are gonna switch sides and fulfill their 'ambition' then there's an obvious, if distasteful way to do it.

Conquer the Lecarrens. Of course, this would be a major problem for them, since they're both being armed by the Cardassians, and the Lecarre have a significant tech lead, but nobody said 'ambitions' would be easy.
 
The obvious counter to the threat of the Dawiar doing something rash at the start of a war with Cardassia is to have a big chunk of our rear area reserve force massing at Ferasa. Combined with the Caitian fleet we already have, and with the Andorians massing as a backstop force somewhere like Landle IV, that gives us more than enough raw strength to smother a surprise Dawiar attack force.

We'd need a few weeks to muster the forces in that region of space before we could send them spinward to fight the Cardassians directly, anyway. They might as well muster in a place that lets them react if the Dawiar behave recklessly.

That's already part of my "Epsilon-2" mobilization plan; I should start looking at an "Epsilon-3" plan now that I know where our ships are likely to be in 2313Q2.
___________________

And it really shouldn't take us more than a few weeks to talk to the Dawiar and persuade them it would be to their advantage NOT to do something violent and stupid. Or...

HM. I just had an idea!

Perhaps we could persuade them to try something like, oh, a ritual combat between all of our ships in that specific fleet and all of their ships, with combat continuing to shield failure, and "defeated" ships being temporarily demilitarized and detained under [insert way to make the guard force reliable]

That way, the Dawiar can tell the Cardassians "look, we tried, and we went mega badass and actually knocked out two cruisers and a fathership that are now NOT going to be attacking you, you're welcome by the way, but dude we were outnumbered like three to one and now all our ships are in a Federation impound lot so seriously what the hell."
 
I'm of two minds on the Dawiar. On the one hand, we have the Yrillian example. Even though affiliation was blocked, getting them above 100 "opened lines of communication" and was presumably valuable in and of itself. Similar might be valuable with the Dawiar. On the other hand, why destabilize a stable situation? The Dawiar might be Cardassian clients, but I doubt they're pouring in as many resources as some of the other client races. They have too much leverage to be forced into a bad deal.

To me, if the Daiwar are gonna switch sides and fulfill their 'ambition' then there's an obvious, if distasteful way to do it.

Conquer the Lecarrens. Of course, this would be a major problem for them, since they're both being armed by the Cardassians, and the Lecarre have a significant tech lead, but nobody said 'ambitions' would be easy.

It's unclear if the Lecarre have a tech lead. The Dawiar are listed as "2200s (Recent data shows their weapons are being brought up to modern spec by Cardassians)" and the Lecarre are "2240s (Being uplifted)". Sounds like both of them are integrating Cardassian tech as fast as they can.

Of course we could never encourage a war of conquest, but as the Federation has told the Lecarre time and time again we are all about the free and open sharing of information. Perhaps we should freely and openly share the location of the Lecarre home world with the Dawiar. Just a friendly gift of a star chart of the neighborhood with a big circle around the Lecarre and a comment that their homeworld is right there. You know, if the Dawiar wanted to know for some reason. Did we mention the Lecarre don't seem to have a very big navy? Just in case the Dawiar were curious.
 
I'm of two minds on the Dawiar. On the one hand, we have the Yrillian example. Even though affiliation was blocked, getting them above 100 "opened lines of communication" and was presumably valuable in and of itself. Similar might be valuable with the Dawiar. On the other hand, why destabilize a stable situation? The Dawiar might be Cardassian clients, but I doubt they're pouring in as many resources as some of the other client races. They have too much leverage to be forced into a bad deal.



It's unclear if the Lecarre have a tech lead. The Dawiar are listed as "2200s (Recent data shows their weapons are being brought up to modern spec by Cardassians)" and the Lecarre are "2240s (Being uplifted)". Sounds like both of them are integrating Cardassian tech as fast as they can.

Of course we could never encourage a war of conquest, but as the Federation has told the Lecarre time and time again we are all about the free and open sharing of information. Perhaps we should freely and openly share the location of the Lecarre home world with the Dawiar. Just a friendly gift of a star chart of the neighborhood with a big circle around the Lecarre and a comment that their homeworld is right there. You know, if the Dawiar wanted to know for some reason. Did we mention the Lecarre don't seem to have a very big navy? Just in case the Dawiar were curious.

If this were RomulQuest we'd find a way to leak Lecarre Infiltration invaision plans to the Dawiar with the Implicating that the Cardassians were backing it out of a fear that their own dishonorable actions cause the Dawiar to back off.

The Lecarre would of course deny it in the most shady way possible whereupon we contrive to have a Lecarre infiltrator "uncovered" somehow. Perhaps even by pulling a switch with one of our agents.

Then once things deteriorate we openly come to the Dawiar and go "look. The Cardassians can't be trusted. But we outweigh them. So if they do want to fite you we have your back. Then we stash a cloaked fleet out in the gap past Bajor and jump any Cardassian force that attempts to respond.

We negate two Cardassian allies and eat an entire fleet to open the war where we then go on the offensive.

> : 3
 
If this were RomulQuest we'd find a way to leak Lecarre Infiltration invaision plans to the Dawiar with the Implicating that the Cardassians were backing it out of a fear that their own dishonorable actions cause the Dawiar to back off.

The Lecarre would of course deny it in the most shady way possible whereupon we contrive to have a Lecarre infiltrator "uncovered" somehow. Perhaps even by pulling a switch with one of our agents.

Then once things deteriorate we openly come to the Dawiar and go "look. The Cardassians can't be trusted. But we outweigh them. So if they do want to fite you we have your back. Then we stash a cloaked fleet out in the gap past Bajor and jump any Cardassian force that attempts to respond.

We negate two Cardassian allies and eat an entire fleet to open the war where we then go on the offensive.

> : 3
Maybe we can do that. We have options to do it. We probably have spies in the syndicate who could arrange for just that to happen. The problem is how do we do it without implicating ourselves.
 
Maybe we can do that. We have options to do it. We probably have spies in the syndicate who could arrange for just that to happen. The problem is how do we do it without implicating ourselves.

Listen if the Romulans think it's a good idea and an elegant plan as the Federation you pretty much start at "no" and then escalate to "hell no"
 
Listen if the Romulans think it's a good idea and an elegant plan as the Federation you pretty much start at "no" and then escalate to "hell no"
The Romulans may be cunning evil and not to trusted to pedal a foot bike 6 feet from the starting position but they do come up with good ideas sometimes. The problem is that those plans have a tendency to backfire sometimes. but sometimes the plans do work. There are a couple of plans they did do in Canon that did work IIRC.
 
On an unrelated note, @OneirosTheWriter, can you confirm whether we still have Revak's 4pp/yr bonus now that you've switched sector commands from bonuses to attributes?

And to confirm whether the following are blocked from affiliate: Yrillians, Dawiar, Licori (likely yes to all)

Speaking of aliens, the Qloathi are integrating this quarter.

Wait, really? Last I heard, they were "Further Integration Pending" as of this year's snakepit.
 
I'm willing to guess that more plans like that fell apart from having too many moving parts than succeeded. Which is why the Romulans don't rule the quadrant.

It sounds like you're someone who's watched the shows!

The Romulans may be cunning evil and not to trusted to pedal a foot bike 6 feet from the starting position but they do come up with good ideas sometimes. The problem is that those plans have a tendency to backfire sometimes. but sometimes the plans do work. There are a couple of plans they did do in Canon that did work IIRC.

Oh yes. If this was RomulQuest that would be my plan. 100% there are probably lots of ways to remove the moving parts and tip things around so that we don't have to plant anything just use the right leading questions and friendly pointers. I am after all the Official Quest Romulan.

What I mean is that no one in the Federation has the mindset, talent, or experience to pull it off without it spilling out into the open within a few weeks. Federation strengths lie elsewhere.

Remember the quest tag "This is not an Empire Quest"
 
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