How much political power do we have about now? (From events and whatnot)

My view of the bomb having being the nadir hopefully remains as such. 27 Resilience is quite a lot; coupled with the annual halving, we may return to the low cost era... eventually.

On one hand, Oneiros did say the Syndicate had invested a lot of effort in that bombing. We've hit another damage threshold now, so they may not be able to do something like that again.

On the other hand - and this is a very sobering thought - the warhead they used was from an escort micro-torpedo. Think about how many escort craft there are floating around in the Federation sphere of influence, in private hands or in the hands of corrupt or incompetent governments. How many torpedoes does each of them carry?

Weapons of mass destruction are really, really easy to get ahold of in this setting.
 
On one hand, Oneiros did say the Syndicate had invested a lot of effort in that bombing. We've hit another damage threshold now, so they may not be able to do something like that again.

On the other hand - and this is a very sobering thought - the warhead they used was from an escort micro-torpedo. Think about how many escort craft there are floating around in the Federation sphere of influence, in private hands or in the hands of corrupt or incompetent governments. How many torpedoes does each of them carry?

Weapons of mass destruction are really, really easy to get ahold of in this setting.

I'd honestly be much more concerned about KKVs or suborned freighters that have an antimatter payload in the cargo bay (or pure fusion nukes for that matter). ST seems open enough that a freighter that noses up to a starbase and suddenly goes boom could be a thing at least once.
 
Weapons of mass destruction are really, really easy to get ahold of in this setting.
I think the counter to that is sensors in Trek are really, really good as well. I suspect most of the effort went into smuggling it past patrol vessels, then system sensor nets, then inner system sensor nets, then orbital sensor nets, planetary sensor nets, passive sensors in cities, and police/military patrols throughout all of that.

There's always 'sensor dampening' but that can also be seen through.
 
I have to say that while I have grown to love those posts from a storytelling perspective I can't help but feel that the whole Master of Orion thing is rather subobtimal from a gameplay perspective. What I mean to say with that is that we, as players, have nearly no way to influence what is happening in them and are forced to remain mostly passive (which then stacks with an already large amount of posts that are less than suited for high player participation) which seems a bit unlucky considering how much effort and planning seems to have went into those interludes. I personally think fewer interludes that actually involve choices would be "better".

Isn't that pretty much exactly how the Captain's Logs work? I think it's just the nature of the quest. We get to choose the initial configuration that affects how events play out, but we rarely ever get to respond to anything directly. Often it's decisions that we made many turns ago that affect what's going on right now.
 
The fact that they seem to have created a functional interstellar civilization suggests that they must have something going for them, Briefvoice. I mean, maybe they'd look at 21st century Earth and say "Wait, you claim to own things that aren't ideas? And your economy is mainly based around things? You guys trade in land, to the point where you have entire economic bubbles created entirely by price fluctuations in the value of land and structures? WTF PURGE IT WITH FIRE (TM)!"

Let's not jump to conclusions just because they push one of our Millennial Buttons the way a faction of overt open space communists would push the buttons of a science fiction fan from the 1950s.

I don't see why I shouldn't allow my buttons to be punched by fiction. Okay 'purge with fire' was a bit of a humorous exaggeration, but I don't like these guys at all. And that's fine, it's good to have some species around with things that seem kind of horrible, especially when it can be done without going to tired old wells like murder or slavery.

As for the idea that they must have something going, well nearly any system can work for a while. The trouble comes when all the workarounds necessary to get the system to produce acceptable outcomes start failing and the whole things seizes up. I was actually already toying with an omake about them, getting out how they have to have social rewards to induce putting tech in "creative commons" so that so much knowledge doesn't become locked up in mutually competing properties that no one can build anything without paying off half the civilization and making building it in the first place not economically viable.
 
Maybe in a normal quest distance would be a problem. But in those quests we'd be playing Captain of the Enterprise. We're Admiral Starfleet, which is by design, removed from events. A real commanding Admiral of any navy has to deal with other people doing things on their own initiative beyond her purview, yet the effects trickling back to her desk.
 
I have to say that while I have grown to love those posts from a storytelling perspective I can't help but feel that the whole Master of Orion thing is rather subobtimal from a gameplay perspective. What I mean to say with that is that we, as players, have nearly no way to influence what is happening in them and are forced to remain mostly passive (which then stacks with an already large amount of posts that are less than suited for high player participation) which seems a bit unlucky considering how much effort and planning seems to have went into those interludes. I personally think fewer interludes that actually involve choices would be "better".
It keeps up active discussion of the anti-Syndicate campaign, at least. And given that Oneiros would have to put in the time and effort to roll up those events and conflicts on the sideline anyway, I'm not sure how much effort would be saved. The easiest thing for him would probably be to dryly report "so and so many points of Impact and Cost gained on Duaba because of fight between [asset] and [asset], so many points Impact gained by [detective group], and +2 resilience because [event]."

If he wanted to do that, I'm sure he could.

I don't see why I shouldn't allow my buttons to be punched by fiction. Okay 'purge with fire' was a bit of a humorous exaggeration, but I don't like these guys at all. And that's fine, it's good to have some species around with things that seem kind of horrible, especially when it can be done without going to tired old wells like murder or slavery.

As for the idea that they must have something going, well nearly any system can work for a while. The trouble comes when all the workarounds necessary to get the system to produce acceptable outcomes start failing and the whole things seizes up. I was actually already toying with an omake about them, getting out how they have to have social rewards to induce putting tech in "creative commons" so that so much knowledge doesn't become locked up in mutually competing properties that no one can build anything without paying off half the civilization and making building it in the first place not economically viable.
Agreed; they appear to have already hit that point or they wouldn't have "ownerless" warp drive. They may well have hit that point repeatedly throughout their history, and have some sort of weird nigh-religious veneration for those anti-materialistic clans who sacrifice their IP for the greater good of the civilization, while recognizing that the average Dylaarian is not saintly enough to give up their clan's economic income that way (sadly, say the street preachers).

And on the more general note, I don't mind them pushing your buttons, I just want to make sure the freakouts don't make us collectively unwilling to deal with aliens that are "icky and weird" in ways that are actually quite tame and that we really wouldn't have any trouble learning how to live with if we wanted to make the effort.
 
It's kinda crazy to imagine how industry would work. Like, okay, you invent a warp drive, but you're probably going to use some off-the-shelf components in it, so that means you're paying patents for energy conduits, cooling pumps, specific storage tank designs...

And then, to power it, you probably need to license a fusion reactor from someone, which itself probably has easily 1000 sub-licences for various improved magnets, electronic timers, shielding, etc... maybe even the equations that govern it's functioning.
 
I don't see why I shouldn't allow my buttons to be punched by fiction. Okay 'purge with fire' was a bit of a humorous exaggeration, but I don't like these guys at all. And that's fine, it's good to have some species around with things that seem kind of horrible, especially when it can be done without going to tired old wells like murder or slavery.

As for the idea that they must have something going, well nearly any system can work for a while. The trouble comes when all the workarounds necessary to get the system to produce acceptable outcomes start failing and the whole things seizes up. I was actually already toying with an omake about them, getting out how they have to have social rewards to induce putting tech in "creative commons" so that so much knowledge doesn't become locked up in mutually competing properties that no one can build anything without paying off half the civilization and making building it in the first place not economically viable.

Yeah I'd actually thought about that. which is why there are mechanisms for distributing common ideas. They just don't like doing it if they don't have to. It would be the same as a Corporatocracy instituting some level of basic welfare or pensions/ labour rights.

And I'm fine with you not liking them for ideological reasons as long as you're accepting them as a thing. (I mean, I absolitely despise the Killiks of the Star Wars EU, just hate them. Think they're the worst.)Not everyone agrees with every ideology that exsists. And there are people here on earth that would be totally fine with your ideas and inventions belonging to you forever coigh*Disney*cough, it's just not really the norm for most of us.

I also made that reference to an internal war a century ago that was ended by the largest Clan giving IP and becoming Neutral arbitrators because I agree that there will be issues.
 
Last edited:
The other alternative to Creative Commons is that everyone breaks the rules all the time and is technically a criminal, but clans settle things by "arbitration" in which they tally up everything periodically and pay each other off. Unless you're one of the underclass in which case you have no juice and can't do anything without being thrown in prison. In which case first contact with the Enterprise might have been less honest confusion and more jumping at the opportunity to extend their protection racket. Maybe it wasn't peacefully resolved because they got a look at the age of the sensors but rather they got a look at the size of the phasers.

The notion that some virtuous Dylaarian scientist would never dream of reverse-engineering a PADD might be less a truth and more a cultural myth, with what actually happens totally dependent on what the scientist thinks she can get away with.
 
So going back warp drive is ownerless, but I could actually see multiple clans pooling their inventions together to make a larger, more profitable invention they can then patent, like a fusion reactor. They would probably then share in the ownership and profits of licensing that. Sort of like a dark mirror to Yrillian work gangs - instead of being a mutual association for productive gain, it's a mutual association for shared perpetual ownership and profits.

And in between them the Orions going
 
Well, Prince at the time.

I still (IMPORTANT EDIT: haven't) had a chance to go ahead and detail the Renaissance mesh. I'd like to get the broad shape right before I apply a subsurf to smooth it all out. It becomes much harder to make large changes afterwards, but it's difficult to model any small additions (such as windows!) before I do that. So, any comments/criticisms on the current model?



3d model on Sketchfab.
 
Last edited:
Well, Prince at the time.

I still had a chance to go ahead and detail the Renaissance mesh. I'd like to get the broad shape right before I apply a subsurf to smooth it all out. It becomes much harder to make large changes afterwards, but it's difficult to model any small additions (such as windows!) before I do that. So, any comments/criticisms on the current model?



3d model on Sketchfab.


I dig it. We've decided the Rennie is basically a high tech reimagining of the Connie, and that's exactly what your model looks like.
 
The other alternative to Creative Commons is that everyone breaks the rules all the time and is technically a criminal, but clans settle things by "arbitration" in which they tally up everything periodically and pay each other off. Unless you're one of the underclass in which case you have no juice and can't do anything without being thrown in prison. In which case first contact with the Enterprise might have been less honest confusion and more jumping at the opportunity to extend their protection racket. Maybe it wasn't peacefully resolved because they got a look at the age of the sensors but rather they got a look at the size of the phasers.

The notion that some virtuous Dylaarian scientist would never dream of reverse-engineering a PADD might be less a truth and more a cultural myth, with what actually happens totally dependent on what the scientist thinks she can get away with.

No, they're naturally fairly peaceful (Which tells you something about out of control things got a century ago that a war was starting up. On the Other hand Humanity blew itself up not long before that so.) but certainly a little paranoid about their work. The expectation is that if you try to pirate? You will get caught.

The best example I can think of is land squatting. That land has to belong to someone /somewhere/ and you have no claim or right to it without a piece of paper.

So going back warp drive is ownerless, but I could actually see multiple clans pooling their inventions together to make a larger, more profitable invention they can then patent, like a fusion reactor. They would probably then share in the ownership and profits of licensing that. Sort of like a dark mirror to Yrillian work gangs - instead of being a mutual association for productive gain, it's a mutual association for shared perpetual ownership and profits.

And in between them the Orions going

This is exactly how it works

Something that I ended up cutting from the brief because the Grammer and examples were dumb and never got around to putting back in because I forgot/ was lazy/exhausted was that most Clans have a sort of loose hierarchy of association where they cooperate with each other as sorts of Cartels that also function as the main "Parties" in their Clan Conclave.

There's a lot of cooperation going on. But it is absolutely taken as objective truth that ideas can be, /and should be/ owned.
 
It's kinda crazy to imagine how industry would work. Like, okay, you invent a warp drive, but you're probably going to use some off-the-shelf components in it, so that means you're paying patents for energy conduits, cooling pumps, specific storage tank designs...

And then, to power it, you probably need to license a fusion reactor from someone, which itself probably has easily 1000 sub-licences for various improved magnets, electronic timers, shielding, etc... maybe even the equations that govern it's functioning.

there is a clan that regulates things, and forces some people to sell their licenses at a low cost. I imagine that works out to stuff that absolutely everyone uses being fairly cheap to license, though there technological progression is likely really weird. On one hand there is strong incentive to build your own version, on the other hand you have to be really carful no to come off as violating copyright.
 
[EDITED IN:

I like AKuz's analogy to land squatting. In most of our dominant societies today, it is generally agreed that you can't just move into a patch of land, it has to belong to someone if only to the government. There are various sorts of anarchists who believe that the government shouldn't be allowed to own land and that such land is free for private owners to claim... but there's almost no one, not even communists, who really think land should be completely unowned. Someone has to be in charge of deciding what happens to it, whether or not they extract any profit from their decision.

And we routinely accept consequences of this- the idea that land belongs to some specific person- Consequences like:
1) Paying parking fees (how dare you put your hunk of metal here without permission!?)
2) Squatters getting evicted even if that means they experience serious physical suffering.
3) People getting evicted out of long-established homes for failing to pay back rent or property taxes.

And we have entire categories of institution that exist only because we have this widespread concept of land ownership but sometimes we have to compromise on that in order to solve a practical problem. Such as water rights agreements in dry regions. Such as eminent domain. Such as, again, property taxes. Such as requirements to mark property boundaries, such as professional surveyors who sort out land disputes. Such as (in past ages) feudalism.

You can argue that the concept of land ownership is necessary to the function of civilization- and it is. Or rather, it's necessary to the function of our civilization. It's not impossible to imagine a society that just doesn't care or informally negotiates such disputes in a way that doesn't really translate as 'ownership.' Modern humans in developed societies generally don't actually do that, but that doesn't mean that alternate-universe humans couldn't, or that less territorial creatures from another world couldn't.

Well, here we're seeing the converse applied to IP rights. A civilization where there are a huge number of institutions that have grown up around the concept of dealing in, and brokering, IP rights and ensuring that they are properly distributed and that society doesn't just totally seize up and cease to function due to the implications of that.

END OF EDIT]

It's kinda crazy to imagine how industry would work. Like, okay, you invent a warp drive, but you're probably going to use some off-the-shelf components in it, so that means you're paying patents for energy conduits, cooling pumps, specific storage tank designs...

And then, to power it, you probably need to license a fusion reactor from someone, which itself probably has easily 1000 sub-licences for various improved magnets, electronic timers, shielding, etc... maybe even the equations that govern it's functioning.
I suspect that a lot of this is standardized and 'bundled' in a manner similar to the way the financial sector of 21st century Earth bundles debts and so on.

There are probably clans who are MASSIVELY successful because they have the IP on how to 'bundle' large amounts of individual IPs into a complicated but marketable system. Brokerage, in other words.

The other alternative to Creative Commons is that everyone breaks the rules all the time and is technically a criminal, but clans settle things by "arbitration" in which they tally up everything periodically and pay each other off. Unless you're one of the underclass in which case you have no juice and can't do anything without being thrown in prison. In which case first contact with the Enterprise might have been less honest confusion and more jumping at the opportunity to extend their protection racket. Maybe it wasn't peacefully resolved because they got a look at the age of the sensors but rather they got a look at the size of the phasers.

The notion that some virtuous Dylaarian scientist would never dream of reverse-engineering a PADD might be less a truth and more a cultural myth, with what actually happens totally dependent on what the scientist thinks she can get away with.
You never know; alien minds are alien. It may be that rule-breaking is relatively common but the people involved feel deeply guilty and actually are legitimately offended when they find evidence of it. Sort of like marital infidelity- it's not that it doesn't happen, it's not even especially rare, but hardly anyone ever approves and it is almost unanimously discouraged.

In other words, it's not that the Dylaarians are the MPAA. It's that the MPAA is a bunch of humans insincerely pretending to be Dylaarians. They're unlikeable because they're trying to enforce an alien mentality on a species that doesn't "naturally" believe in it.

Well, Prince at the time.
Leslie: "Meh. It's been a while. Promotions happen."

I still had a chance to go ahead and detail the Renaissance mesh. I'd like to get the broad shape right before I apply a subsurf to smooth it all out. It becomes much harder to make large changes afterwards, but it's difficult to model any small additions (such as windows!) before I do that. So, any comments/criticisms on the current model?
I'm very happy with this hullform, though I was at least minimally satisfied with the old one. It definitely looks like a good starting point for "first of the 24th century designs," arguably more so than the canon Ambassador with its Excelsior-esque nacelle pylons and circular deflector.
 
Last edited:
There probably are some advantages to everything being protected, even if it is doubtless cumbersome. For example, you're liable to end up with multiple solutions to the same problem, which lets people be more flexible in their selection. Like if there's an incentive for multiple different antibiotics to be developed, then bacteria are less likely to become resistant to the dominant antibiotic. Stuff like that.
 
Well, Prince at the time.

I still had a chance to go ahead and detail the Renaissance mesh. I'd like to get the broad shape right before I apply a subsurf to smooth it all out. It becomes much harder to make large changes afterwards, but it's difficult to model any small additions (such as windows!) before I do that. So, any comments/criticisms on the current model?



3d model on Sketchfab.


I really like this!

Between this and the Art from Leila (And my cutie Constie! > : P) we could probably put together an ad banner with content entirely native to the quest if we wanted to!
 
You never know; alien minds are alien. It may be that rule-breaking is relatively common but the people involved feel deeply guilty and actually are legitimately offended when they find evidence of it. Sort of like marital infidelity- it's not that it doesn't happen, it's not even especially rare, but hardly anyone ever approves and it is almost unanimously discouraged..


Yes! Exactly like that! It happens, it's not even super rare. But the participants feel guilty and Shame and everyone is offended by it if caught. Marital infidelity, hmm, yes that didn't occur to me but it's a perfect analogy in that way.
 
Yes! Exactly like that! It happens, it's not even super rare. But the participants feel guilty and Shame and everyone is offended by it if caught. Marital infidelity, hmm, yes that didn't occur to me but it's a perfect analogy in that way.
Right.

The rule 'marital fidelity...'

It is a rule that most people have at least occasionally been tempted to break. And where in many cases there are desirable benefits for breaking it. And where we can easily imagine that everyone would break it, if we're cynical. But the reality is, not everyone breaks it, many people never break it and even those who do usually don't do it often. It's almost unfailingly taken seriously when people do break it, and even high-status people can get in a lot of trouble for breaking it.

And if you go "meh, well it's no big deal to break this rule," everyone thinks you're an utter jackass. Because it's a rule that hits very close to home for most of us, even the ones who break it of their own initiative. Being a person who thinks "this rule shouldn't even exist" makes you some weird kind of fetishist.
 
There's a lot of cooperation going on. But it is absolutely taken as objective truth that ideas can be, /and should be/ owned.
It occurs to me then there's probably some massive Research clans solely dedicated to uncovering pure maths and theoretical physics that they then get sweet residuals from when used in larger projects. Can you imagine how rich Einstein could have been if people had to pay a royalty or licencing fee every-time an invention of theirs used some of his mathematical proofs or formulae? GPS satellites, for example.
 
Clan Salandi is still making bank off the fact they invented the wheel, but that's nothing compared to Clan Zoi, which invented the first stone tool :V
 
Back
Top