Everyone uses near-aimbot hitscan weapons as their main battery, meaning that everyone has a defense grid that is to Phalanx CIWS what Phalanx is to WWI AAA.
Edit: After accommodating for moving to space, of course.
Also, fighters just don't have the boom to kill things. Energy weapons? No, you're not fitting anti-capital phasers into a fighter/shuttle/runabout scale platform. Torpedoes? Good luck, photons are about the size of an IRL cruise missile, and they need dedicate launch systems that are substantially larger than that.
Plus, fighter delivery doesn't add anything to the threat of photon torpedoes.
The Jem'hadar fighters are IIRC only a bit smaller than the Defiant, and a lot of their threat was from ramming.
The tactical situation of 2370s is vastly different from the 2300s, at least as represented in this quest.
Fleets are at least an order of magnitude larger - think hundreds or thousands of ships rather than tens. Small raider ships were also becoming a larger problem, probably a consequence of the further commodification of starships. Photon torpedo technology advanced enough that they could be feasibly equipped on smaller and smaller ships. Furthermore, the Borg threat showed that in the face of technological superiority concentrated in relatively few ships, the best response is a war of attrition (which Federation industry can support) with larger numbers of ships that are capable of dealing at least some damage to such a foe.
Altogether, these factors resulted in smaller warships like the Defiant and Danube classes, and other escort and runabout type ships. I figure that Federation attack fighters were just an evolutionary development from runabouts, making it easy to reuse existing runabout construction infrastructure.
With that in mind, I think the combat mechanics will eventually have to be revised around the 2350s or so, because even disregarding smaller ship classes, we're still talking about a lot of ships to keep track of. Fortunately, at the rate this quest is progressing, and accounting for typical quest slowdowns, we'll only reach 2350s late next year.
The tactical situation of 2370s is vastly different from the 2300s, at least as represented in this quest.
Fleets are at least an order of magnitude larger - think hundreds or thousands of ships rather than tens. Small raider ships were also becoming a larger problem, probably a consequence of the further commodification of starships. Photon torpedo technology advanced enough that they could be feasibly equipped on smaller and smaller ships. Furthermore, the Borg threat showed that in the face of technological superiority concentrated in relatively few ships, the best response is a war of attrition (which Federation industry can support) with larger numbers of ships that are capable of dealing at least some damage to such a foe.
Altogether, these factors resulted in smaller warships like the Defiant and Danube classes, and other escort and runabout type ships. I figure that Federation attack fighters were just an evolutionary development from runabouts, making it easy to reuse existing runabout construction infrastructure.
With that in mind, I think the combat mechanics will eventually have to be revised around the 2350s or so, because even disregarding smaller ship classes, we're still talking about a lot of ships to keep track of. Fortunately, at the rate this quest is progressing, and accounting for typical quest slowdowns, we'll only reach 2350s late next year.
What I'm saying is that things like the Defiant and the Jem'Hadar attacks ships aren't actually fighters. They're escorts that strip out literally everything not devoted to battlefield murder and getting to the battlefield. Actual fighters - things that need a mothership and certainly aren't capable of sustained operations for months - are useless in combat.
And IIRC the only shuttle scale vessel in star trek that's been clearly useful in a serious combat environement barring multi-century tech leads was the Delta Flyer. Danubes and shuttlecraft have only ever mattered in STO.
Edit: In large part because something like Defiant can just kill the mothership and then warp out.
Also because star trek has anticapital missiles that can turn on a dime. Fighters exist in the firing range of a photon torp armed cap ship at the cap ship's sufferance.
And IIRC the only shuttle scale vessel in star trek that's been clearly useful in a serious combat environement barring multi-century tech leads was the Delta Flyer. Danubes and shuttlecraft have only ever mattered in STO.
My sector "fleet" as it stands, consists of myself, the USS Yukikaze, and the IRW Devoras after the Romulan Admiral was recalled to the Senate to answer for the near-total destruction of his command.
Suffice to to say, this is not how I envisioned my first taste of fleet command to be. Commander Velin reassures me that the Admiral will be fine, and that the victory and sensor logs will bear him out. More of a mandatory board of inquiry thing. We are still stationed in the Kadesh system, running down every sensor ghost and cleaning up pockets of Biophage. Given the number of pockets, I am, regrettably, almost positive that some of the Biophage has escaped. There is simply no longer enough hulls to properly account for them.
The Kadeshi fleet has left their garden behind for Galaar III, reuniting with the last surviving settlement of their people. There they will build one final large vessel and carry what is left of their people into a pilgrimage across known space. I wish them well. No people should have to suffer what they have.
The remaining evacuations have occurred as per requirements. The scouting is complete, revealing the extent of the Somtaw. If the Biophage had been allowed to finish digesting Kadesh and turn their attention to the Sotaw... Catastrophe hardly begins to do the thought justice. It is an fascinating lesson in not guessing the depth of a pool by the colour. [Staff Note for Human Admiral: "When you 'assume', you make an..."] For so long, Starfleet Intelligence, the Tal Shiar, and no doubt the Klingons, have been pointing fingers everywhere else, not realising that there was a warp-capable race springing up there over the last hundred and fifty years.
Regardless. Today space is a little less cruel. I am happier for it.
Well, we've made Councillor Stesk a very happy Vulcan by starting to wind back the state of emergency as we appear to reach the final stages. He had just been starting to make veiled references about the need for the expediency of states of emergency being a dangerous lure that must be resisted, but after the return of a number of assets that appears to cease. There has been a lot of damage in the Neutral Zone, but soon we will be able to handle that within the normal processes of the Federation. Currently, much of our administrative arm is turned towards making sure that we will be able to meet the demand for Vaccines from people in the affected area. A number, of course, that has increased many, many fold with the discovery of the billion-strong Sotaw homeworld.
[Gain +10 Political Will for Demobilising two teams]
End Report
Federation Diplomatic Service Report
The crippling of the CAS Riala and the death of Admiral Aelin is regrettable. However, the manner of his demise, plowing through waves of shuttles in an attempt to reach a doomed planet, has struck a chord with the Amarki people. He is being celebrated as a fallen hero of their people, and will be receiving a full state funeral.
Our inquiry with the Confederacy of Amarkia has, in an almost perverse way, also bolstered relations, by reminding them that it was a shared bond of suffering between the two sides. The initial assessments that we sent of the USS Kumari were very sobering, it seems. By good fortune or, at least, the fact they cannot afford many Riala-class explorers, both of their large berths are clear and the USS Kumari is under tow by Starfleet Engineering Command vessels to the Dzinghi system.
We have also been making progress with our affiliates, the Betazoids. Careful feting of their contribution has struck a chord with the Betazoids, who are very proud of their telepathic heritage.
[+25 Diplomacy with Amarki for interactions]
[2u10+10 push with Betazed = +12 + 10 for interactions for +22]
End Report
Starfleet Engineering Command Report
Admiral,
With only one of five Excelsiors fit for active service, it is a very ... let's go with 'interesting' ... time to be in Starfleet Engineering.
The USS Sarek is back at the large berth of 40 Eridani A, and so is the human industrial team. They will continue their work until the Sarek is spaceworthy again, which at this rate of progress should take three months. The USS Kumari is being towed to Amarkian space, a move that has many in Starfleet Engineering ... pensive. [Chief of Staff note: Read: "Freaking out hilariously".] Nonetheless, we can recognise that the Riala is good engineering, so she should be in good hands with a team from Starfleet Shipyard Ops taking control of the operation.
Other ships are entering a variety of small bays and starbases to carry out repairs. Much of the fleet will be back on deck within three months, baring the USS Svai, which, to be perfectly honest, we have no idea how she survived. But survive she did, to be repaired in one of 40 Eridani A's small bays.
Our work crews, meanwhile, are on Machado IV again, this time installing a series of fusion reactors that will eventually power a planetary shield around the evacuation site camp. The crew from Andoria is also working at the moment, performing a similar operation at Indi Beta Outpost, installing new reactors in order to support more powerful Shield Generators.
End Report
Starfleet Medical Command Report
Admiral, two main things to report on.
We have split our focus over the last month. Our organic engineers have detached to help deploy the Tachyon Detection network. This use of our assets may have made Starfleet Medical irritable in most cases, but in this case, our medics are preoccupied. Which brings us to the other focus. Our medical staff have deployed to the recovering ships of the Romulan Border Zone fleet to attempt to heal the wounded of that battle. There are, lamentably, fewer than normal. The nature of the Biophage leads to many damaged areas being purged which is no less damaging to the crew than it is to the Biophage.
As a result, our final casualty list from the battle runs to approximately 1,380 dead Starfleet and Federation personnel, plus another 325 wounded. Combined with earlier actions during the crisis, this crisis has seen the greatest loss of life among Starfleet since before the signing of Khitomer.
However, this is most likely at an end. With the addition of Commodore McCoy, the Infectious Diseases Institute has made the breakthrough in developing a vaccine that will render a person immune to the reshaping effects of the Ulith III Biophage, and will shortly have a system that renders the hulls of ships likewise.
Biophage Vaccine Research Rush
10 / 10 Perform full analysis of the properties of the Biophage.
20 / 20 Sample Bio-laboratory Containment Procedures
20 / 20 Sterilisation Procedures
30 / 30 Vaccine Development I 40 / 40 Vaccine Development II 20 / 20 Structural Integrity Field Modifications I 30 / 30 Structural Integrity Field Modifications II (+10 gained from Battle of Kadesh)
Ship Modifications
20 / 20 Structural Integrity Field Modifications [+1 to Hull vs Biophage, Slow down infection rates]
11 / 30 Structural Integrity Field Modifications II
14 / 20 Freon-Trilithium Plasma Coolant Hull Adhesive (Slow down infection rates from Infection Beams if hull undamaged) 10 / 10 "The Big Red Button" Accelerated Warp Core Breach Process (+1 to attempts to self-destruct after infection)
Tactical Command Report
Our principal aim at Starfleet Tactical Command has been in analysing the events and outcomes of the Battle of Kadesh, which was the largest and most significant battle Starfleet has fought in decades. This will be an extended process, of course, as there is much to examine. However, we have already drawn a number of useful details, including ways to improve ship survivability in contact with the Biophage, which has helped our research considerably. In the long term, seeing how the ships performed will be invaluable to our progress towards making combat doctrines for the new era.
The scouting teams have also reported in. Our final tally of the Sotaw indicates they have four colony worlds, the largest of which has two million people, plus five science outposts, and the homeworld with a billion people on it. They appear to be a people dedicated to engineering rather than exploration or war, and are capable of great feats in this field.
Biophage Combat Research Rush
20 / 20 Develop EPS Venting Protocols [+5 for Actions at Birkeed III]
20 / 20 Romulan Combat Footage Analysis
20 / 20 Phaser Firebreaks (to slow spread of biophage on a planet)
20 / 20 Rapid Beam-out (Save crews while minimising the risk of conveying the infection)
28 / 30 Specific Phaser Remodulation [+10% to Combat Pool in fleet battles vs Biophage] (+10 gained from Battle of Kadesh)
18 / 20 Anti-Biophage Torpedo Payload Jacketing [Escorts gain +1 Combat vs Biophage large ships] (+10 gained from Battle of Kadesh)
18 / 20 Navigation Deflector Disruption Pulse [-1 to Biophage Combat stat, to a minimum of 2] (+10 gained from Battle of Kadesh)
Suicide Shuttle Countermeasures
15 / 15 Shuttle Cloak Sensor Pattern Analysis (+1 to Science when attempting to spot inbound shuttles)
15 / 15 Mutual Support Formation (+1 to Combat when attempting to intercept inbound shuttles)
30 / 30 Tachyon Burst Sweep (+1 to Science when attempting to spot inbound cloaked vessels)
20 / 20 Shield Harmonics Modifications (+1 to Shield when attempting to withstand a hit)
End Report
Communique from Federation President
Congratulations, Admiral.
Your handling of this crisis has seen it through to a successful conclusion. While casualties among colonists were steep, as they were among ships and crews, the intellect of your researchers, and the valour of your crews have seen the threat of the Biophage contained, reduced, and now effectively eliminated. Thousands perished, but millions survived, and against an organism unlike any we have ever seen before, of an unparalleled lethality, this is good work indeed.
The new vaccine is being delivered to the Gaeni for mass fabrication and even now is being distributed among the sentients who live in the Neutral Zone.
Further, you and the Enterprise have sown the first seeds of communications with the Romulan Star Empire, something we hardly envisioned possible. What those seeds will grow into none of us can say, but the Council looks forward to finding out.
The experience of this encounter, and the feeling of needing extra ships everywhere, and more acutely the current vulnerability as the Excelsiors are repaired, has also led the Council to believe that an expansion of Starfleet is required. The details remain to be ironed out, but we are looking forward to working with you on authorising this expansion.
End Message
======================================
The Ulith III Biophage State of Emergency has been concludedsuccessfully with the development of the Vaccine and destruction of the Biophage's major fleet units.
The Federation Threat Levelis Reduced from 8 to 4. The Militarisationlevel is Reduced to 2.
In line with the authorised expansion of Starfleet, the Maximum Combat Value has been increased by 100, to bring it to a total, at the current threat level, of 190. You are advised that the Minimum Science Level will be steadily increasing in future to match this. Further, minimum defence levels on systems will be increasing. You, of course, have no maximum Science level. You are reminded that this is an expansion of the fleet, not a militarisation of it, and should be careful how this is treated.
This crisis is considered to have come to a Successful conclusion. Gain +100 Political Will, and +50 Research Points. Gain +10 diplomacy with all non-affiliates. Gain 25 diplomacy with all affiliate members.
What I'm saying is that things like the Defiant and the Jem'Hadar attacks ships aren't actually fighters. They're escorts that strip out literally everything not devoted to battlefield murder and getting to the battlefield. Actual fighters - things that need a mothership and certainly aren't capable of sustained operations for months - are useless in combat.
And IIRC the only shuttle scale vessel in star trek that's been clearly useful in a serious combat environement barring multi-century tech leads was the Delta Flyer. Danubes and shuttlecraft have only ever mattered in STO.
You've kinda missed my point. I'm not arguing that the Defiant is a fighter. I'm saying that in Star Trek canon, we were seeing the prevalence of smaller ship classes (which does include Federation attack fighters!) and an explosion in ship numbers in the Dominion War. Current combat mechanics simply won't scale to that level of fleet warfare.
Main reason for UP is it comes with a free Light Cruiser team, which makes it worth it. We can smooth over problems using diplomacy, and besides we'll also do the Andoria shipyards as soon as possible.
Well, that was a nice conclusion and a welcome opportunity to expand the Fleet. I am pleased that we have already built more Oberths than the Council requires and are in the progress of building a fourth. As a ship class, they do a good job of showing commitment to pure Science. @OneirosTheWriter when are the three completed Oberths going to be reassigned? I'm still curious to see what sort of missions they get.
Really looking forward to seeing future tuns of this quest.
As for Affiliates, I think that every turn we can spare the political will we should Diplomatic Push both the Amarki and the Betazoids. Bringing both the warrior race and the peaceful telepaths in at about the same time would be good for the Federation's balance.
Well, we've made Councillor Stesk a very happy Vulcan by starting to wind back the state of emergency as we appear to reach the final stages. He had just been starting to make veiled references about the need for the expediency of states of emergency being a dangerous lure that must be resisted, but after the return of a number of assets that appears to cease.
I-I have no words....I mean did he not realize what the hell could have happened? Or am I just reading this wrong because to me it's coming across as he didn't approve of the state of emergency.
Well, that was a nice conclusion and a welcome opportunity to expand the Fleet. I am pleased that we have already built more Oberths than the Council requires and are in the progress of building a fourth. As a ship class, they do a good job of showing commitment to pure Science. @OneirosTheWriter when are the three completed Oberths going to be reassigned? I'm still curious to see what sort of missions they get.
Really looking forward to seeing future tuns of this quest.
As for Affiliates, I think that every turn we can spare the political will we should Diplomatic Push both the Amarki and the Betazoids. Bringing both the warrior race and the peaceful telepaths in at about the same time would be good for the Federation's balance.
I-I have no words....I mean did he not realize what the hell could have happened? Or am I just reading this wrong because to me it's coming across as he didn't approve of the state of emergency.
Could be a hint from the GM that trying to use Emergency Powers to do anything that doesn't directly relate to the Emergency is going to get plenty of raised eyebrows, and that trying to squeeze maximum value from the teams we've raised, even when the fighting is basically done will also get complaints?
I-I have no words....I mean did he not realize what the hell could have happened? Or am I just reading this wrong because to me it's coming across as he didn't approve of the state of emergency.
Councilor Stesk is an idealist and a pacifist who believes that states of emergency are a necessary evil. He voted and spoke in favor of this one, but he was also eager to wind it down as soon as the reduction in threat justified it. In this case, we did and it made him happy.
Think of him as the pain in the rear that keeps you honest.
I-I have no words....I mean did he not realize what the hell could have happened? Or am I just reading this wrong because to me it's coming across as he didn't approve of the state of emergency.
He didn't. He seems to be the type who would only respond when the opponent causes a blow that can not be ignored. An isolationist to the very core he is. The only thing that would make him want a state of emergency would be if someone pulled a Pearl Harbor on us, and even then it would be a reluctant support.
He didn't. He seems to be the type who would only respond when the opponent causes a blow that can not be ignored. An isolationist to the very core he is. The only thing that would make him want a state of emergency would be if someone pulled a Pearl Harbor on us.
Yes, but seeing as the Biophage had already wiped out three federation planets by that time, it most likely would have resulted in Vulcan calling for his withdrawal and replacement if he didn't support the state of emergency.
By the way, I'd love to hear how people felt about/enjoyed/didn't enjoy the Biophage emergency from a mechanics stand point and a narrative stand point to help me improve things in future.
By the way, I'd love to hear how people felt about/enjoyed/didn't enjoy the Biophage emergency from a mechanics stand point and a narrative stand point to help me improve things in future.
Mechanically I liked it, but it does make me worried about a longer, year+ emergency like a war. The format was getting to the point of stale right at the end there, because almost every turn felt like 'do the same things you did last time & mobilize more dudes'.
Narratively, no real complaints. I felt like the horror of the Biophage came through quite well from the interludes. Though, I don't really feel like our scientific developments had much narrative impact aside from the Vaccine and EPS purging.
@OneirosTheWriter I did like how it worked overall, and the idea that we could react more and have more control in the event of a crisis. It also is a good test of a system to be used if we ever get in a Dominion War Situation.
One thing though, was the bonus to combat level we got from hitting the science level ever applied?
[+30 to Maximum Combat Base Value for completing Science Tasks set by the Federation Council]
Also guys, we got another research boost for finishing the biophage crisis, so we are now 56 points over what we can use this turn (assuming no tech teams requested) so we can run all our tech teams both this year and next year with just our base income. Also in addition to the new +100 PP we also got +10 PP for demobilizing two assets. We should be able to get a lot of options this turn at the council.
@ the "why don't we have fighters" argument: I think we have to differentiate between Destroyers, and viable Fighters. (Note: gross simplification in play. Also, this is technically a tl;dr, after I realized no one wants to read an unresearched essay)
During the age of blue ocean ships, Destroyers are nimble ships whose entire purpose is to hunt down and Destroy Torpedo Boats and Submarines (hence the name of that class). They have depth charges. They have torpedoes. Their guns are puny, their hulls laughable compared to Cruisers and Battleships, but they're fast and nimble, can take a hit or five before launching their everything, and said speed will assist it in retreating to a safe distance before deciding whether or not to try again.
And when they "launch their everything", Destroyers still have the capability to seriously screw up an enemy ship whose displacement is several tens of times larger than it.
(to my admittedly small pool of Trek knowledge,) The Defiant seems to sit squarely in this position.
Fighters, or rather, strike craft on the other hand, are much smaller and requires a base ship to refit/resupply/repair. It has to be able to attack from an unexpected angle, and survive relatively well when doing so (which planes does... relatively ok in WWII, what with them being all but untargetable by the main guns of ships, plus the state of the AA capabilities back then). It should have the capability to really HURT the larger ships it is attacking, up to and including outright destruction in a single good pass, and it should be able to do that in ranges that'd put the Carrier out of range of retaliation.
Here's the thing:
"survive relatively well when doing so"
"in WWII ... all but untargetable by the main guns of ships... the state of the AA capabilities back then"
This is the big difference, the reason why we can't copy/past an idea in the past Oceans into Space.
The most obvious of which is that in Space, everyone is "flying". And so every single weapon those ships have to be able to hit a "flying" target. AND the fact that in Star Trek, everyone's favorite weapon of choice to pound against the shields of an opponent are banks of highly accurate, high powered Phasors, backed up by highly capable targeting computers.
An analogy of the difference being invoked is: Just think of with every single one of any Battleship of World War 2 , from the massive cannons, to the secondaries, down to any AA it has... ALL of THEM capable of hitting incoming planes accurately, every single shot of them.
THAT would be a slaughter. You'd have to be Biophage-level suicidal to be able to bypass that level of accuracy... which means you're sending a LOT of crew to their more-or-less confirmed deaths.
So, unless something changes to increase the survivability of fighters (and load them up with something scary to Trek's big ships)... we are not going to see fighters anytime soon.
(Edit: There's more. Like, say, "everyone has warp drives, so Carriers will NEVER be safe"... but I'll stop here)
By the way, I'd love to hear how people felt about/enjoyed/didn't enjoy the Biophage emergency from a mechanics stand point and a narrative stand point to help me improve things in future.
I enjoyed it. If it matters, I felt like the crisis would drag on for a couple more years, so the way it ended was a bit anti-climactic. But that was a problem with my expectations, especially after that disastrous battle.
Game mechanics were reasonable, research was responsive and had appropriate time scales. There were sufficient twists that it didn't seem too formulaic. Combat mechanics worked fine for this crisis, but I am worried about how well it will scale. Though maybe I'm just jaded with my experience with 4X games
edit: Note: I'm a non-player, not actively participating in voting, so take above feedback with a large grain of salt.
The most obvious of which is that in Space, everyone is "flying". And so every single weapon those ships have to be able to hit a "flying" target. AND the fact that everyone's favorite weapon of choice to pound against the shields of an opponent are banks of highly accurate, high powered Phasors, backed up by highly capable targeting computers.
An analogy of the difference being invoked is: Just think of with every single one of any Battleship of World War 2 , from the massive cannons, to the secondaries, down to any AA it has... ALL of THEM capable of hitting incoming planes accurately, every single shot of them.
TBH, fighters do seem kinda odd in Star Trek, but the fact is, they were used in canon. Realistically, I can imagine fighters working if the enemy is caught unawares, with ships optimized for fighting other capital ships. But you'd think you could easily design an anti-fighter class of warship that features large banks of less powerful phasers and tractor beam emitters.
On the other hand, in a total war situation, where you have to maximize production and are throwing everything you can at each other with less regard for sentient casualties, where dealing damage at all costs is the name of the game, I can still see fighters having an actual role.
By the way, I'd love to hear how people felt about/enjoyed/didn't enjoy the Biophage emergency from a mechanics stand point and a narrative stand point to help me improve things in future.
Mechanically I liked it, but it does make me worried about a longer, year+ emergency like a war. The format was getting to the point of stale right at the end there, because almost every turn felt like 'do the same things you did last time & mobilize more dudes'.
Narratively, no real complaints. I felt like the horror of the Biophage came through quite well from the interludes. Though, I don't really feel like our scientific developments had much narrative impact aside from the Vaccine and EPS purging.
I was expecting it to take longer, however. Also, I feel that an eventual rework will be necessary, because scale.
As someone joining the quest, I felt that the votes ended up being walls of text that took too much time to comprehend, which is why I abstained from voting. If I had more time, I probably would have done more.
I'm also going through AGG: CORE right now, which is why I haven't been spending much time on this. I liked the personal actions, as they gave the quest a bit more flavor, though I'm not sure how applicable the idea is, given the smaller degree of personal involvement that Adm. Kahurangi has vs. Sheridan.
Question: how long does it take to simulate a battle?
