Linked contents
Yeah, but the cop patrol is going to be more maneuverable than a smuggler freighter and will inevitably sit in their worst arc, so likely face a single phasor of return fire.
That plus shields means the patrol vessel likely cripples the phasor able to shoot back at them and forces the smuggler to strike colors even if everyone has phasor 1s.
And if a freighter pulls up with 6 phasor mounts so it has 100% coverage with 2 phasors per arc then you call in backup because something is up.
Last edited:
[X] Stick to the Type-1 Phasers. [120,000 Ton Max] [Tactical: Second Place]
- Location
- Somewhere in the Ashes
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Utility is actually a 0-5 scale. Everything else is 1-3 though.
Yeah, all things considered cost may be the tiebreaker, but utility is actually the most important criteria. Quite frankly utility alone is worth only one less point that tactical and cost combined.
That's why I think type 1s are fine. Tactical is actually the LEAST favored category.
And while I understand that the score and actual market performance won't be sure to line up I think the score IS communicating something factual to us about what the market wants.
They want a high utility patrol boat with enough tactical ability to get the job done as cheaply as they can get it.
Last edited:
Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
Pretty much this. Taking second place in cost and tactical while sweeping Utility, which we can absolutely do, will almost certainly win both the contest and the procurement review that comes after. Both competing designs have utility 2, remember, so we could probably put in everything that both designs have independently- a brig+a cargo bay and tractor beam+a shuttle, respectively- while still beating out Denobula for cost. We might even be able to throw Transporters on it and still be cheaper than Denobula's entry!
2182: Project Protector (Design Ethos)
[X] Stick to the Type-1 Phasers. [120,000 Ton Max] [Tactical: Second Place]
Given the advantages inherent in a standard phaser package, the Type-1B is sorrowfully passed over even by the team that initially suggested it. You think that the idea would have had more traction for a Starfleet project, but the more it was considered the more inconvenient a complicated logistics chain became. After all, the Type-2 might involve serious reconfiguration and alteration of the existing cooling systems, and so the supply of parts for the Type-1B might rapidly dry up as the technology obsoletes. The increased bulkiness certainly didn't do it any favours either. No, you need to keep your focus on track.
With that in mind, you find yourself with the oddly pleasant but still quite peculiar situation of considering utility functions even before a hull has been planned. On essentially every United Earth project it is taken as a given that certain amenities and functions are included, with excess space provided to further enhance or add to those capabilities. Here, with much less space to work with and tight design goals, you are approaching from the opposite direction. What can you afford to include at all? Here you straddle the line between mass and capability. More functions means more crew, which means more space, which means more facilities, which means more power, which means more conduits - everything spirals outwards at the small scales you are working at.
So you need to reframe the question. Not what features you can add, but what features you can remove. At present you are looking at around sixty thousand tons of starship standing still. Adding every capability the contest evaluates would put you at your maximum limit thanks to the shuttlebay, which demands the most space. Shuttles are wonderfully useful, of course, especially the Type-2s that are now replacing shuttlepods across the fleet. But does the Protector really need them? For that matter, does it need transporters when a shuttle will do? If it can tractor ships, does it need a cargo bay? Isn't a tractored starship just an external cargo bay, when you think about it? For that matter do you need a tractor beam if the ship is well-armed enough to force compliance or disable engines? Putting in everything might win you the contest but lose you standing when it comes to actual procurement.
No, what you need to do is pick features that will synergize or cover for each other and exclude others. The Tellaries have an inspection ship, the Denobulans a pursuit ship. Both have strengths and weaknesses, capability gaps that can be exploited to take the prize. What is Earth offering?
[ ] 0: Shuttlebay (+20,000 Tons)
[ ] 0: No Shuttlebay
[ ] 1: Transporter (+10,000 Tons)
[ ] 1: No Transporter
[ ] 2: Cargo Bay (+10,000 Tons)
[ ] 2: No Cargo Bay
[ ] 3: Brig (+10,000 Tons)
[ ] 3: No Brig
[ ] 4: Tractor Beam (+10,000 Tons)
[ ] 4: No Tractor Beam
Three Utilities are required to win the competition.
Two Hour Moratorium, Please
Given the advantages inherent in a standard phaser package, the Type-1B is sorrowfully passed over even by the team that initially suggested it. You think that the idea would have had more traction for a Starfleet project, but the more it was considered the more inconvenient a complicated logistics chain became. After all, the Type-2 might involve serious reconfiguration and alteration of the existing cooling systems, and so the supply of parts for the Type-1B might rapidly dry up as the technology obsoletes. The increased bulkiness certainly didn't do it any favours either. No, you need to keep your focus on track.
With that in mind, you find yourself with the oddly pleasant but still quite peculiar situation of considering utility functions even before a hull has been planned. On essentially every United Earth project it is taken as a given that certain amenities and functions are included, with excess space provided to further enhance or add to those capabilities. Here, with much less space to work with and tight design goals, you are approaching from the opposite direction. What can you afford to include at all? Here you straddle the line between mass and capability. More functions means more crew, which means more space, which means more facilities, which means more power, which means more conduits - everything spirals outwards at the small scales you are working at.
So you need to reframe the question. Not what features you can add, but what features you can remove. At present you are looking at around sixty thousand tons of starship standing still. Adding every capability the contest evaluates would put you at your maximum limit thanks to the shuttlebay, which demands the most space. Shuttles are wonderfully useful, of course, especially the Type-2s that are now replacing shuttlepods across the fleet. But does the Protector really need them? For that matter, does it need transporters when a shuttle will do? If it can tractor ships, does it need a cargo bay? Isn't a tractored starship just an external cargo bay, when you think about it? For that matter do you need a tractor beam if the ship is well-armed enough to force compliance or disable engines? Putting in everything might win you the contest but lose you standing when it comes to actual procurement.
No, what you need to do is pick features that will synergize or cover for each other and exclude others. The Tellaries have an inspection ship, the Denobulans a pursuit ship. Both have strengths and weaknesses, capability gaps that can be exploited to take the prize. What is Earth offering?
[ ] 0: Shuttlebay (+20,000 Tons)
[ ] 0: No Shuttlebay
[ ] 1: Transporter (+10,000 Tons)
[ ] 1: No Transporter
[ ] 2: Cargo Bay (+10,000 Tons)
[ ] 2: No Cargo Bay
[ ] 3: Brig (+10,000 Tons)
[ ] 3: No Brig
[ ] 4: Tractor Beam (+10,000 Tons)
[ ] 4: No Tractor Beam
Three Utilities are required to win the competition.
| Mass | Cost (Tiebreak) | Tactical | Utility | Total | |
| Tellar | 60000 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 6 |
| Denobula | 80000 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 6 |
| Earth | 2 | 2 | 4 |
Two Hour Moratorium, Please
Last edited:
fishsicles
ate a calculator to gain its power
- Location
- Alexander Horned Earth
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'd go with transporter over shuttle bay. The ability to beam things aboard from other ships is too valuable as a piece of doctrine to leave it out of a patrol ship, especially since by now the technology should be reasonably proven.
The need to launch whole shuttles is probably limited in this use case anyway, compared to moving things en masse from larger ships.
The need to launch whole shuttles is probably limited in this use case anyway, compared to moving things en masse from larger ships.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Okay, just doing an assessment here, but...
This is a Police Cutter, it should be treated as such. About intercepting and bringing in low level evildoers. Cargo is unneccessary, shuttles are unnneccessary.
But the Tractor Beam, Brig, and Transporters are Necessary. The Brig to separate arrested folks from their equipment, the Tractor Beam to drag their ship along, and Transporters to get people from Point A to Point B. That gets all the utility required of a police cutter, while being inexpensive.
Which puts us at a net 90 Kilotons, with a Type-2 Impulse Engine, that's very close to maximum possible Agility (90 KT mass vs 150 KT Thrust), and it brings considerable Utility to the table as well.
This isn't a cargo hauler, except in the sense that it can drag an impounded ship to be inspected, which is almost the same thing. It doesn't need to intercept warships, or battlegroups, because that is Starfleet's job, it's just meant to apprehend small, private Problems, which means you don't need to be able to move mass goods from place to place, just deploy away teams to conduct an arrest after pursuit. The Brig space can also be converted easily enough down the line as well if you want to use the base chassis for something else.
This is a Police Cutter, it should be treated as such. About intercepting and bringing in low level evildoers. Cargo is unneccessary, shuttles are unnneccessary.
But the Tractor Beam, Brig, and Transporters are Necessary. The Brig to separate arrested folks from their equipment, the Tractor Beam to drag their ship along, and Transporters to get people from Point A to Point B. That gets all the utility required of a police cutter, while being inexpensive.
Which puts us at a net 90 Kilotons, with a Type-2 Impulse Engine, that's very close to maximum possible Agility (90 KT mass vs 150 KT Thrust), and it brings considerable Utility to the table as well.
This isn't a cargo hauler, except in the sense that it can drag an impounded ship to be inspected, which is almost the same thing. It doesn't need to intercept warships, or battlegroups, because that is Starfleet's job, it's just meant to apprehend small, private Problems, which means you don't need to be able to move mass goods from place to place, just deploy away teams to conduct an arrest after pursuit. The Brig space can also be converted easily enough down the line as well if you want to use the base chassis for something else.
Last edited:
Get rid if the cargo bay and keep everything else shuttles and transported are both needed in my opinion
LunaMoth
Wings of Kynareth is my comfort song...
- Pronouns
- He/They
Oh yeah cutting out both the cargo bay and the shuttlecraft's would result in lowest mass without sacrificing anything too badly, since a small cargo bay for contraband is below the level of abstraction this quest operates under I think?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Besides, said items can potentially stay on any captured ship as it's moved to an impound lot.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I think I agree with this. There are too many scenarios where one might want to inspect a stopped ship without dropping shields to beam personnel over. For instance, if you have stopped a ship without disabling it because it complied with your request to stop and be boarded, but which you believe for whatever reason might stop complying during the inspection.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
If it's mass contraband, we're seizing the whole ship, if it's just a couple pieces, that can be stored away, without dedicated cargo space, yeah. At the end of the day, Shuttles and Cargo Bays are redundant for the ship's intended role.
More importantly, civilian grade starships aren't going to be able to just sneak attack you like that. You're not going to order them to "Stop and let us inspect you", you're going to say "Heave to and power down." They're not going to be able to shoot you with something hefty enough to punch through your armor and SIF from a cold EPS conduit.
More importantly, civilian grade starships aren't going to be able to just sneak attack you like that. You're not going to order them to "Stop and let us inspect you", you're going to say "Heave to and power down." They're not going to be able to shoot you with something hefty enough to punch through your armor and SIF from a cold EPS conduit.
Last edited:
- Location
- USA
Is this the last step? Because if so we have a lot of points to make up if we want to win this
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't think it is, it's explicitly mentioned that the Tellarites submission has a cargo bay for storing contraband so if we don't take the cargo bay we don't have any cargo bay period.
Ivan the Not-so-Terrible
AH MEW CHEEKI BREEKI I V DAMKE
- Location
- Mikonyan’s USSR
Any contraband large enough to need a dedicated cargo bay to hold is contraband that justifies seizing the ship carrying it, I'd think.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
At least long enough to tow it to the station for a careful inspection, yeah.
As a police cutter we absolutely need at minimum a brig and a tractor beam emitter. We cannot hope to fulfill even the most basic functions without these.
Between the transporter and shuttlebay, well, ideally we'd have both, but the shuttlebay is the clear winner if we have to pick one. Not only does it allow us operations in a far wider set of conditions than a transporter but also over a far greater range.
A cargo bay is needed too, not only for stowage of contraband but also relief and other supplies. These police cutters are likely to be first responders to any internal disaster.
Between the transporter and shuttlebay, well, ideally we'd have both, but the shuttlebay is the clear winner if we have to pick one. Not only does it allow us operations in a far wider set of conditions than a transporter but also over a far greater range.
A cargo bay is needed too, not only for stowage of contraband but also relief and other supplies. These police cutters are likely to be first responders to any internal disaster.
Last edited:
- Location
- UK
Shuttle seems a little pointless for this kind of ship. It's a small patroller designed to stay within a system or cluster, it doesn't need parasite craft for detached duties and it's never going to need ship to surface functionality. Loading and off-loading can be done at a starbase, inspections can be done remotely or via the transporter, and the mass is better spent on the utility of secure holding space.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
More expensive though, even if I do see the logic, might be the difference between High and Very High Manueverability though.