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Starfleet Design Bureau

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Takareer said:
I think torpedoes are important due to their non-tactical uses. Disrupting negative space wedgies with a photon torpedo, or sending something unusual down the launch tube in a torpedo casing, are all valuable additions to have.
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Honestly it would be a better use of our resources to just...put more sensors and various equipment in the ship so that it can examine weird space anomalies from a distance.
 
Cavalier said:
We are making a science vessel, not a cruiser. There's no need for it to be especially maneuverable and have a load out of arms eclipsing the Stingray-class light cruisers or the overarmed dedicated warship of the Skate-class. Midline engines, no torpedos, and two phasor mounts are more than adequate for its actual purpose and to keep costs down to facilitate the next project.
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There is an argument for giving it dual engines so it can get out of trouble faster, but I agree that it doesn't need much in the way of firepower.
 
I'm inclined to agree, Midline Impulse to save a bit of Civilian Industry, no Torpedoes to maximize internal space, and 2 phaser banks to prototype the design and give it sharp enough teeth to ward off the occasional opportunist. That should be enough.
 
Skippy said:
Skimping on the impulse engines seems like a real mistake to me. Outside of wartime, we're unlikely to run into issues with civilian industry, and being able to get out of danger quickly is important for a ship where "fly next to exploding stars" is a core part of its mission profile.
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Hmm.

True enough, and it only does cost only slightly more.

No torpedoes though!
 
[ ] 0: Dual Engines (Maneuverability: Medium) [+4 Civilian Industry]

I'm leaning towards this because 2 more civilian industry isn't a big sacrifice, but I'm not married to it.

[ ] 1: No Torpedoes

Torpedoes were specifically called out as taking up internal space we could use for utility things.

If it weren't for that I'd be all for them.

[ ] 2: Four Phaser Emitters (+4 Average Damage) [+12 Starfleet Industry] [Prototype]

Maximum phasers to make up for not getting torpedoes.
 
What's our industry usage so far? So much guns it doubles the price of the ship seems silly
 
Yeah, I'm in favor of Dual Phasers for its armament and leaving it at that. we hash the bugs out and have all the basic prototypes ready to go and fixed for the Utility Cruiser.
 
Cavalier said:
Getting out of trouble is engaging the Warp drive. Impulse engines are for close-in travel and maneuverability matters in combat, where this ship is not supposed to be.
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Engaging warp and not crashing into anything at light speed takes valuable time in a dangerous situation however, time that isn't used up by instead having more maneuverable impulse engines.
 
Cavalier said:
Getting out of trouble is engaging the Warp drive. Impulse engines are for close-in travel and maneuverability matters in combat, where this ship is not supposed to be.
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Warp drive is for getting out of trouble once you've gotten out of the immediate vicinity of it. If something goes weird right next to you, however, chances are you're going to need to do some impulse maneuvering to get into position to escape first.
 
Cavalier said:
Getting out of trouble is engaging the Warp drive. Impulse engines are for close-in travel and maneuverability matters in combat, where this ship is not supposed to be.
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Warp travel doesn't always work. And having dual engines means the ship can still move at impulse if one engine is damaged. I think the dual engines are just a sensible addition for safety. This isn't a cargo ship running protected trade routes. It's going to get into some amount of trouble poking at science whatsits, even if it doesn't get into much of any shooty fighting.
 
I feel like only phasers is fine, considering this isn't a combat vessel, and the torpedo's here aren't stated to have science uses
 
I would note that the extra engine would help with its mission statement. It's not just speed, but maneuverability. Could definitely be useful for navigating asteroid fields or other such "terrain". Nevermind that being able to cross a system in less time would let it do its job faster.

Plus it's a really minor increase in cost, so I think it's worth it.
 
UlseDovThur said:
I would note that the extra engine would help with its mission statement. It's not just speed, but maneuverability. Could definitely be useful for navigating asteroid fields or other such "terrain". Nevermind that being able to cross a system in less time would let it do its job faster.

Plus it's a really minor increase in cost, so I think it's worth it.
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IRL, asteroid fields are spread out enough that you'd be lucky to come close enough to see even one rock as you pass through one. They're densely populated with debris compared to the rest of space, but still very diffuse.
 
Cavalier said:
We are making a science vessel, not a cruiser. There's no need for it to be especially maneuverable and have a load out of arms eclipsing the Stingray-class light cruisers or the overarmed dedicated warship of the Skate-class. Midline engines, no torpedos, and two phasor mounts are more than adequate for its actual purpose and to keep costs down to facilitate the next project.
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Sarpedon said:
While I can see perhaps grabbing the minimum amount of phasers, there is no reason for this thing to be rocking photonics, especially since the mixed use launcher for both probe and torps seems to be a much later possibly TNG era invention. They are simply dead weight in a floating science lab like this is supposed to be.
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The operational realities of a 22nd century starship are vastly different to those faced by a 21st or 20th century warship or oceanographic survey vessel. It is a mistake to take a design ethos from modern day Earth and assume it applies equally to Starfleet- the situation is more comparable to that which ships found themselves in during the 18th or 19th centuries. There is a reason why almost all Federation starships are multirole, with specialisation being a matter of degrees.

If this ship gets a distress call, then it is likely going to be the only first responder for light years. That is a result of the immense distances involved, and the fact that Star Trek warp drives are simply not like Star Wars hyperdrives. Giving this ship more than a minimal armament could come in handy if we expect it to be out in the middle of nowhere and the first on-scene to respond to emergencies - which under realistic circumstances, is going to happen not infrequently.

Cavalier said:
Getting out of trouble is engaging the Warp drive. Impulse engines are for close-in travel and maneuverability matters in combat, where this ship is not supposed to be.
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This is not practical in a wide array of contingencies which the ship may realistically find itself in, particularly in conditions with a strong gravity well or other adverse stellar conditions.
 
Hm, ok. Either 2 bow torpedoes or no torpedoes, and 2 or 4 phasers. I don't see the point to phase cannons, we should trial our phasers here and not on something we expect to fight. As long as 2 phasers gives us adequate coverage, I'm ok with just 2. That gives us almost as much average damage as 4 phase cannons, and for less industry. Win-win-win with the prototyping.

I'll quote the assessment I wrote up:
Project BRAHE armament should be established at a level to defeat or deter Class I threat vessels, and escape Class IIa threat vessels. BRAHE is likely to operate alone given limited fleet numbers, and outpaces all current potential escorts. Defeat or deterrence of Class I threat vessels ensures that BRAHE is able to: defeat local pirates, press or negotiate UFP system claims against pirates and hostile independent mining groups, render aid to civilian vessels, and establish deterrence and communications with initially hostile vessels.

In order to do this, the Brahe should have an armament roughly equivalent to an early Stingray, not necessarily the current refit. I think this can be achieved with 2 phasers and no torpedoes, though I wish a single aft torpedo was possible.

I think we should go with the dual engines. Low maneuverability has basically always been terrible.
 
Skipping on impulse engines because 'we have Warp Drives' is a sure thing that will cost us a ship.

It's just a few more industry points to add, yet some still feel they want to shortchange the ship and its future crew. :eyeroll::eyeroll:
 
Cavalier said:
We are making a science vessel, not a cruiser. There's no need for it to be especially maneuverable and have a load out of arms eclipsing the Stingray-class light cruisers or the overarmed dedicated warship of the Skate-class. Midline engines, no torpedos, and two phasor mounts are more than adequate for its actual purpose and to keep costs down to facilitate the next project.
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Yeah, I agree. Two phasers is good enough to prototype and refine phaser technology, torpedoes are a mature technology that's just unnecessary firepower, and midline engines are... basically fine.
 
I'm in favor of dual engines and a relatively light phaser armament.

That way, when one of these science ships does end up in a hostile situation, they can boogie, instead of just being a nigh-helpless target.

Prototype phasers gotta be tested on some ship, and why not here, on a science ship, where the armament isn't strictly necessary?

Plus, if the phasers work out instead of underperforming or failing, this science ship will have some nasty teeth to use in any engagement they might end up in.

Also, dang, this is a gorgeous ship.
 
I agree with dual engines- the minor Civilian industry cost is worth it compare to the extra manoeuverability, and as this is a science vessel is unlikely to be going into combat, so I don't see the point in torpedoes.
Weapons - Let's get the phasers, the sooner we get them prototyping and tested the sooner we can get them onto our actual combat ships, but we only need 2 because it's a SCIENCE ship
 
Empress_Boog said:
I really would have preferred to put only one torpedo on the ship, but as that isn't an option I'm going with two. I want to prototype the weapons too, but this is a survey ship, so only two of the phasers.

[ ] 0: Dual Engines (Maneuverability: Medium) [+4 Civilian Industry]
[ ] 1: Two Forward Photonics (+7.5 Burst Damage) [+6 Starfleet Industry]
[ ] 2: Two Phaser Emitters (+2 Average Damage) [+6 Starfleet Industry] [Prototype]

This would be my preferred vote.
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I just... I jut really like maneuverablity. What if we meet a negative space wedige that wants to pet us, but hasn't yet figured out that 'touching' stuff from our reality causes atoms to decay?
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An that is why I'm gonna vote for these. But if I wasn't a manoeuvrability junkie, I'd voted for the basic engines, and maximum [prototype] guns.

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I note that the QM has made no mention of lauching probes. Maybe torpedo tubes don't actually be used to launch probes at all, or maybe such functionality comes built in to a shuttle bay, or maybe even comes as standard[1] on all starfleet ships?

[1] Like, it might not be a shuttle bay, but even the ability to launch one shuttle has enough utility value that it is included on all but the smalles of ships.

Who knows?
Sayle. Salye knows.
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But other than this, I'd go 'cheap' and pick poor engines, no torpedoes and max [prototype] guns.
Edit:
The space may be better used for other systems as well, so forgoing the launchers entirely wouldn't be a controversial deicsion.
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Whelp. No torpedoes for me :D.
 
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