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Starfleet Design Bureau

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Starship Design Bureau Starfleet Design Bureau
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Sayle said:
Maybe? It has to look decent from multiple angles, but something like.
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I basically just based this on the Thunderchild hull since that seems like a logical conclusion.
I also used it to mockup what I'd like to stuff into it, layout wise:

Should be obvious where the EPS goes.
(I'm actually picturing the lab being two labs port and starboard, with the shop being stuffed in the extra deck added for the deflector as a sort of "use the space for Something" type addition.aalso not married to the aft cargo bay (can easily be smaller or deleted as necessary, it's more of a nice-to-have than necessity).
But all in all I would expect a configuration like this to get the job done quite satisfactorily indeed.

Edit: for the record:
Important stuff:
4x Phaser (Port& Starboard, Dorsal & Ventral)
1x torpedo tube (fore)
Lab
Workshop
Secondary Computer
Shuttlebay

Other Stuff:
1 extra AM pod
Cargo bay
Nice(r) medbay
 
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[X] Parallel Configuration (+0.2 Cruise/Maximum) (Prototype) [1 Success Check]
[X] Sprint Configuration (+0.4 Maximum)
 
Mechanis said:
I basically just based this on the Thunderchild hull since that seems like a logical conclusion.
I also used it to mockup what I'd like to stuff into it, layout wise:

Should be obvious where the EPS goes.
(I'm actually picturing the lab being two labs port and starboard, with the shop being stuffed in the extra deck added for the deflector as a sort of "use the space for Something" type addition.aalso not married to the aft cargo bay (can easily be smaller or deleted as necessary, it's more of a nice-to-have than necessity).
But all in all I would expect a configuration like this to get the job done quite satisfactorily indeed.
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Hmm, I'm thinking no workshop and no cargo bay. Those are better suited for the utility cruiser IMO. That aft cargo probably wouldn't work anyway since we need the full warp conduit from the core to the nacelles too, not just the core itself. Dropping those two should free up a bunch more space for more labs while still keeping room for the turbolift and all the generic space. Quite a lot of these ships are actually left "empty" once you look at the diagrams which is probably where all the stuff below our level of abstraction is placed. But even if we aren't voting on it directly it still needs to be put in the ship, so we can't exactly skimp on space for that.
 
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[X] Parallel Configuration (+0.2 Cruise/Maximum) (Prototype) [1 Success Check]

[X] Vertical Configuration (+0.4 Cruise) [Experimental] [2 Success Checks]
 
Mechanis said:
I basically just based this on the Thunderchild hull since that seems like a logical conclusion.
I also used it to mockup what I'd like to stuff into it, layout wise:

Should be obvious where the EPS goes.
(I'm actually picturing the lab being two labs port and starboard, with the shop being stuffed in the extra deck added for the deflector as a sort of "use the space for Something" type addition.aalso not married to the aft cargo bay (can easily be smaller or deleted as necessary, it's more of a nice-to-have than necessity).
But all in all I would expect a configuration like this to get the job done quite satisfactorily indeed.
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As pointed out above that Cargo Bay position doesn't really work and a dedicated cargo transport bay is better left to the utility cruiser. This survey vessel just needs enough cargo storage to supply itself, not transport equipment to colonies, and ship supply storage doesn't show up on the diagram or get rewarded with Engineering score, but again we don't need that. We also don't need a dedicated workshop for Engineering score, main engineering will have enough space for maintaining the ship, this will not be helping assemble Starbases.

I would put the torpedo launcher behind the deflector (like the Skate class) and move the mess hall to the front edge of the saucer for a better view. I would also move the phasers to right behind the mess hall. That leaves enough room for a big science lab, and a bigger med bay stacked on top of each other. The med bay would be very useful if it can handle things like quarantine because anomalies create situations where being able to quarantine part of the crew would be helpful at an alarming rate. It would also give the ship a secondary role if there is an epidemic on a colony. Several of our ships in the first quest were called out for not having enough med space to handle biohazard scenarios, and we should have a ship for that in this timeline. Our utility cruiser probably won't have room, and the explorer will be built in small numbers and spend a lot of time outside Federation space.
 
7th Hex said:
Hmm, I'm thinking no workshop and no cargo bay. Those are better suited for the utility cruiser IMO. That aft cargo probably wouldn't work anyway since we need the full warp conduit from the core to the nacelles too, not just the core itself. Dropping those two should free up a bunch more space for more labs while still keeping room for the turbolift and all the generic space. Quite a lot of these ships are actually left "empty" once you look at the diagrams which is probably where all the stuff below our level of abstraction is placed. But even if we aren't voting on it directly it still needs to be put in the ship, so we can't exactly skimp ofm space for that.
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The workshop is in for very important reasons: firstly, we're going to be stuffing this thing with all kinds of prototype tech, and I want it to be able to whip up anything it might need to deal with, let's call them teething issues.
Secondly, we're going to be sending these out to poke Anomalies with (highly sophisticated) sticks, and I don't want them to need to have to run back to a starbase if they need some weird bespoke sensor or unusual probe design or whatever; equally if they end up getting into trouble (weird energy fields, weird dust clouds, weird exolife, etc) I'd prefer they have at least the theoretical ability to build anything they might need to self-rescue.
Thirdly, let's be real here, these things are almost certainly going to end up getting pressed into all sorts of interior roles unless they're such spectacular failures we end up not building any beyond the first one, just because of First Federation Ship Ever prestige; and added to that that multirole ships is Starfleet's Thing, designing it as a science heavy workhorse rather than a science lab with engines just makes sense.
 
So something I'm always curious about...
Exactly how long can we go at sprint speeds for? An hour, a day, a week (but then you need heavy repairs?)
I had been thinking of it as the speed for reaching multiple different battles in close proximity and escape speed, but curious as to if it's also "Go save a colony" speed.

If it's instead maximum plot speed that's fine too, but I figured I should probably ask during a relevant vote.
 
LawsOfRobotics said:
As pointed out above that Cargo Bay position doesn't really work and a dedicated cargo transport bay is better left to the utility cruiser. This survey vessel just needs enough cargo storage to supply itself, not transport equipment to colonies, and ship supply storage doesn't show up on the diagram or get rewarded with Engineering score, but again we don't need that. We also don't need a dedicated workshop for Engineering score, main engineering will have enough space for maintaining the ship, this will not be helping assemble Starbases.

I would put the torpedo launcher behind the deflector (like the Skate class) and move the mess hall to the front edge of the saucer for a better view. I would also move the phasers to right behind the mess hall. That leaves enough room for a big science lab, and a bigger med bay stacked on top of each other. The med bay would be very useful if it can handle things like quarantine because anomalies create situations where being able to quarantine part of the crew would be helpful at an alarming rate. It would also give the ship a secondary role if there is an epidemic on a colony. Several of our ships in the first quest were called out for not having enough med space to handle biohazard scenarios, and we should have a ship for that in this timeline. Our utility cruiser probably won't have room, and the explorer will be built in small numbers and spend a lot of time outside Federation space.
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I think we need a functional cargo bay even if just to scoop up interesting stuff to bring back for extended study (or to fill a museum). It doesn't have to be huge and it's fine if it can't really fulfil a secondary cargo hauler role because it's going to be busy anyway, but it should be able to be loaded in less than perfect conditions rather than just filling the ship at a resupply station.
 
Mechanis said:
The workshop is in for very important reasons: firstly, we're going to be stuffing this thing with all kinds of prototype tech, and I want it to be able to whip up anything it might need to deal with, let's call them teething issues.
Secondly, we're going to be sending these out to poke Anomalies with (highly sophisticated) sticks, and I don't want them to need to have to run back to a starbase if they need some weird bespoke sensor or unusual probe design or whatever; equally if they end up getting into trouble (weird energy fields, weird dust clouds, weird exolife, etc) I'd prefer they have at least the theoretical ability to build anything they might need to self-rescue.
Thirdly, let's be real here, these things are almost certainly going to end up getting pressed into all sorts of interior roles unless they're such spectacular failures we end up not building any beyond the first one, just because of First Federation Ship Ever prestige; and added to that that multirole ships is Starfleet's Thing, designing it as a science heavy workhorse rather than a science lab with engines just makes sense.
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That's not how the quest works so far.

Cargo Bays add to engineering, not science. Productions rooms do not let you double dip science and engineering, just engineering, otherwise there would no reason to add anything but more lathes.

This ship is being rated on its science score.

Science Vessel: "It should be a (relatively) safe assignment, primarily focused on scientific discovery."

vs

Utility Cruiser: "That will most likely consist of hauling emergency materials, but includes tactical interventions. When not diverted from usual duties it should be able to conduct basic patrols and cargo transfers."

We want to load the utility cruiser with cargo room and a more than modest amount of guns, not this ship.


[X] Sprint Configuration (+0.4 Maximum)
 
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Mechanis said:
The workshop is in for very important reasons: firstly, we're going to be stuffing this thing with all kinds of prototype tech, and I want it to be able to whip up anything it might need to deal with, let's call them teething issues.
Secondly, we're going to be sending these out to poke Anomalies with (highly sophisticated) sticks, and I don't want them to need to have to run back to a starbase if they need some weird bespoke sensor or unusual probe design or whatever; equally if they end up getting into trouble (weird energy fields, weird dust clouds, weird exolife, etc) I'd prefer they have at least the theoretical ability to build anything they might need to self-rescue.
Thirdly, let's be real here, these things are almost certainly going to end up getting pressed into all sorts of interior roles unless they're such spectacular failures we end up not building any beyond the first one, just because of First Federation Ship Ever prestige; and added to that that multirole ships is Starfleet's Thing, designing it as a science heavy workhorse rather than a science lab with engines just makes sense.
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Not having a large dedicated workshop doesn't mean there isn't space for the engineers to work on maintaining the ship, it means there isn't a large dedicated space to assemble an atmosphere processing unit for a new colony. Where was the workshop in Voyager? Yet that thing made it home from the far side of the galaxy despite being in so many fights it didn't really win it was practically a Ship of Theseus by the time it got home. For a ship operating in friendly space and with no expectation of doing colony or starbase construction work, dedicated large cargo bays and large workshops are overkill and not nearly as helpful for as letting the science ship being good at science and medicine and just building a dedicated utility cruiser like we plan to.
 
Golgotha said:
So something I'm always curious about...
Exactly how long can we go at sprint speeds for? An hour, a day, a week (but then you need heavy repairs?)
I had been thinking of it as the speed for reaching multiple different battles in close proximity and escape speed, but curious as to if it's also "Go save a colony" speed.

If it's instead maximum plot speed that's fine too, but I figured I should probably ask during a relevant vote.
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Sprint speed is for when time is absolutely critical. Whether you're racing a coronal mass ejection to beat it to a helpless colony, racing to deliver a critical medication to an epidemic, or running from a pack of angry Klingons, Sprint Speed is what you use.
 
Mechanis said:
Sprint speed is for when time is absolutely critical. Whether you're racing a coronal mass ejection to beat it to a helpless colony, racing to deliver a critical medication to an epidemic, or running from a pack of angry Klingons, Sprint Speed is what you use.
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Plot duration instead of a rough time line then.
What I figured, but disappointing.
 
Nyvis said:
It belongs in a museum! (ignore how that means stealing native artifacts to display in your monument to imperialism :V)
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Given that this line, in tv and movies at least, is usually contrasting that option with someone else's plan that involves sticking it in private collections, using it as part of an evil plot, or destroying it, it's usually a bit more benevolent than that.
 
Nyvis said:
It belongs in a museum! (ignore how that means stealing native artifacts to display in your monument to imperialism :V)
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Man museums can get crazy with that stuff, I hope Starfleet's better at not stealing, but some episodes of TNG show Picard or another federation citizen with apparently authentic alien cultural artifacts; though I cant remember if they were from a entirely dead civilization or not.

Edit:
The Chase « Mission Log Podcast Star Trek: The Next Generation Rewatch:
 
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Golgotha said:
Plot duration instead of a rough time line then.
What I figured, but disappointing.
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I vaguely recall mention of a day being the expected duration.
Either way, the longer one runs at sprint speed, the more likely, and more serious, problems become. Relatively short durations are just more maintenence intensive, but...
 
LunaMoth said:
Man museums can get crazy with that stuff, I hope Starfleet's better at not stealing, but some episodes of TNG show Picard or another federation citizen with apparently authentic alien cultural artifacts; though I cant remember if they were from a entirely dead civilization or not.
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The real reason why Starfleet uniforms don't have pockets. :V
 
Chargone said:
I vaguely recall mention of a day being the expected duration.
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A day would be good.
Having a sprint that's twice as fast for that duration would cover a lot of extra light years, especially when the basic sprint speed is already so much faster.

But yeah, hearing Picard say "Maximum warp!" Then the next scene being instantly there doesn't really help judge time lines easily.

Presumably a higher max sprint also means you could sprint below your max for longer... But given how warp speeds ramp up I don't even know if that would be helpful.
 
Wootius said:
That's not how the quest works so far.

Cargo Bays add to engineering, not science. Productions rooms do not let you double dip science and engineering, just engineering, otherwise there would no reason to add anything but more lathes.

This ship is being rated on its science score.

Science Vessel: "It should be a (relatively) safe assignment, primarily focused on scientific discovery."

vs

Utility Cruiser: "That will most likely consist of hauling emergency materials, but includes tactical interventions. When not diverted from usual duties it should be able to conduct basic patrols and cargo transfers."

We want to load the utility cruiser with cargo room, not this ship.
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My point was that not all anomaly related issues are solved by science alone, and we have the space for some engineering capacity (probably), and that it's likely that people are going to end up using it as a cheapish workhorse anyway for in universe political reasons, and that super specialist ships isn't really a thing Starfleet does, especially in peacetime. As mentioned, I am absolutely not married to the cargo bay, it would be nice to have but it's an add-on not a critical role system.
Like, right now this is purely theorycrafting for what I would like to have in an ideal world. I absolutely don't expect to get everything and obviously the lab+computer core wombo combo is my preference for meeting the science requirements here and what I would consider the minimum; I'm well aware that I'm extremely unlikely to get everything without compromising somewhere as you might note from me discarding the vertical mounts right out the gate despite being the one who initially suggested them, because it'd make getting a shuttlebay into the thing more painful. It's been clarified from my initial impression of not getting shuttles at all, but having fiddled with mockups I'm pretty convinced that trying to shoehorn a shuttlebay into the ship without the extra hull is going to be a recipe for frustration.
Though in my original proposal I actually suggested adding a modest superstructure like so:

In anticipation of that very issue.
 
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