Starfleet Design Bureau

If only that wouldn't cost the shuttlebay, arg!
As someone mentioned, not having shuttles would be crazy, for a ship that's primarily a survey vessel.
I would honestly vote for vertical nacelles and then to have a back box for a shuttle bay ANYWAY. I don't see any reason why we couldn't have a secondary hull just to have a secondary hull.

In fact, double that up. Add a secondary hull top and bottom. The nacelles can go at the ends of those. Tons of room for cargo and science labs. Triple wide saucer for all your cargo and shuttle needs.
 
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Another argument for vertical design, especially with a double secondary hull top and bottom - It would be a derpy as hell looking vertical shape we could continue the fish name tradition and call call the Moa.
 
I don't see how an experimental nacelle layout would become less experimental if we don't actually try using it.


This, so very much! This is the absolute least-risk time to experiment - if the warp drive is less effective than hoped, who cares? It's not racing around the galaxy, it's parking itself somewhere and running sensor sweeps for extended lengths of time. Further, we've already decided this ship should be a major testbed for our next generation of shipboard equipment, with all the problems and teething issues (and die rolls) that will entail.

Even if this design somehow proves to be an abject failure at all levels, it will still succeed at giving Starfleet vital data for refining the new equipment on future projects.
See, I largely agree with the sentiment here; heck, I was the one that pitched a vertical nacelle design to begin with, but not at the expense of semi-hard role-critical equipment. If we go to a vertical design we may as well pull a Stingray and round file the original design brief to build a patrol boat instead, because lacking shuttles will make survey work a poor use of the ship.
 
Now, hear me out. It's not about this ship. This ship is all well and good, but a survey ship is a low stakes time to test out stuff.
I mean, that's exactly the same reasoning I'm voting for the parallel arrangement, and why I pushed for doing the survey ship first at all. That way we could have better, more reliable systems for the workhorse cruiser and explorer. It's just that I think going for the vertical nacelles would push the prototype so far I think it would start to hurt the ship's actual role of a survey science ship rather than just a prototype testbed, while the parallel nacelles would still trial new prototypes in the field without doing so, even if they not quite pushing as far.

And we still have chances to put other prototypes on this ship like impulse engines or any internals of those pop up.
 
See, I largely agree with the sentiment here; heck, I was the one that pitched a vertical nacelle design to begin with, but not at the expense of semi-hard role-critical equipment. If we go to a vertical design we may as well pull a Stingray and round file the original design brief to build a patrol boat instead, because lacking shuttles will make survey work a poor use of the ship.
Or... Hear me out.

Double top and bottom secondary hulls with vertical nacelle design. Double the shuttle bays. A science ship that can pop into a system and deploy a small fleet of shuttles to go poke and scan everything. Rapid survey power.

I mean, that's exactly the same reasoning I'm voting for the parallel arrangement, and why I pushed for doing the survey ship first at all. That way we could have better, more reliable systems for the workhorse cruiser and explorer. It's just that I think going for the vertical nacelles would push the prototype so far I think it would start to hurt the ship's actual role of a survey science ship rather than just a prototype testbed, while the parallel nacelles would still trial new prototypes in the field without doing so, even if they not quite pushing as far.

And we still have chances to put other prototypes on this ship like impulse engines or any internals of those pop up.
On survivability basis, maybe, but a faster cruise speed means it surveys more places faster and less mass means it's cheaper. We could in theory use the mass savings here to add on a shuttlebay ANYWAY... maybe with double secondary hulls top and bottom. Turn our survey ship into a tiny carrier. Give it a fast enough cruise speed and enough cargo capacity that it can serve as a backup transport.

Sprint speed is good and all, but it's specifically good for running away from stuff. It doesn't actually help the survey ship survey any better.
 
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Or... Hear me out.

Double top and bottom secondary hulls with vertical nacelle design. Double the shuttle bays. A science ship that can pop into a system and deploy a small fleet of shuttles to go poke and scan everything. Rapid survey power.


On survivability basis, maybe, but a faster cruise speed means it surveys more places faster and less mass means it's cheaper. We could in theory use the mass savings here to add on a shuttlebay ANYWAY... maybe with double secondary hulls top and bottom. Turn our survey ship into a tiny carrier. Give it a fast enough cruise speed and enough cargo capacity that it can serve as a backup transport.

Sprint speed is good and all, but it's specifically good for running away from stuff. It doesn't actually help the survey ship survey any better.
Somehow, I don't think we're getting much in the way of secondary hull with the vertical arrangement.
Edit: also, you kow how we were talking about scope creep earlier? Yeah.
 
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If only that wouldn't cost the shuttlebay, arg!
As someone mentioned, not having shuttles would be crazy, for a ship that's primarily a survey vessel.
We can probably just add a shuttlebay into the primary hull. It would just take up some internal space.

It's just that the other two come with a secondary hull, which itself is a great place for a shuttle bay, and this ship will have a shuttle bay regardless so might as well put it there.
 
[X] Sprint Configuration (+0.4 Maximum)

This is a science ship. What's important is it's ability to run away when the anomoly it's poking blows up.

Well that and it's ability to do SCIENCE!
 
I would also like to point out a fact that may be making the parallel configuration look better than it actually is.

The scale is not liner. A .2 difference is less than half a .4 difference. The parallel configuration gives us less than half the bonus to cruse speed and sprint speed. If you add the totals up it does not perform halfway between the other two options. We lose total capability to get flexibility.
 
[X] Vertical Configuration (+0.4 Cruise) [Experimental] [2 Success Checks]

We're building a science ship! Best to push the envelope on interesting tech and design, especially without a desperate need to hit spec.
 
I would also like to point out a fact that may be making the parallel configuration look better than it actually is.

The scale is not liner. A .2 difference is less than half a .4 difference. The parallel configuration gives us less than half the bonus to cruse speed and sprint speed. If you add the totals up it does not perform halfway between the other two options. We lose total capability to get flexibility.

Yes. I know that. I don't care. I'm giving up some potential total capacity that involves *another success check* for flexibility with only one success check required.
 
So, uh, question for those who want to max out sprint speed for getting-away-from-anomalies reasons. Wouldn't sublight speed be a lot more relevant for that than warp speed?
 
[X] Vertical Configuration (+0.4 Cruise) [Experimental] [2 Success Checks]

Science ship needs the pacing more than the sprinting.
 
So, uh, question for those who want to max out sprint speed for getting-away-from-anomalies reasons. Wouldn't sublight speed be a lot more relevant for that than warp speed?
No. If you can't outrun something in warp you can't outrun them. They can hop into warp and jump in front of you. Sublight is for evading attacks and keeping your guns on target.

We can probably just add a shuttlebay into the primary hull. It would just take up some internal space.

It's just that the other two come with a secondary hull, which itself is a great place for a shuttle bay, and this ship will have a shuttle bay regardless so might as well put it there.
I mean, instead of the normally spindly arm holding the nacelle we have a thicker secondary hull where we put a shuttle bay. It should be doable.
 
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No. If you can't outrun something in warp you can't outrun them. They can hop into warp and jump in front of you. Sublight is for evading attacks and keeping your guns on target.
I would suggest that "running away from hostile ships" is different than "running away from spacial anomalies". If the former is your goal then fair enough, but I think my question stands for the latter.
 
Or... Hear me out.

Double top and bottom secondary hulls with vertical nacelle design. Double the shuttle bays. A science ship that can pop into a system and deploy a small fleet of shuttles to go poke and scan everything. Rapid survey power.


On survivability basis, maybe, but a faster cruise speed means it surveys more places faster and less mass means it's cheaper. We could in theory use the mass savings here to add on a shuttlebay ANYWAY... maybe with double secondary hulls top and bottom. Turn our survey ship into a tiny carrier. Give it a fast enough cruise speed and enough cargo capacity that it can serve as a backup transport.

Sprint speed is good and all, but it's specifically good for running away from stuff. It doesn't actually help the survey ship survey any better.
Can you actually say we're going to get a chance to add these double secondary hull you talked about to fit the shuttle bays or other equipment? Can we get @Sayle in here so they can answer whether or not they're going to even give us a vote to add secondary hulls for the sake of adding secondary hulls after this before we go and base our votes around the idea? Because in every other design both this question and in the previous IIRC whenever we've had a vote on nacelle configuration that has been immediately followed by either the impulse engines or the tactical systems, with no other chance to add hull extensions to the ship after the nacelles.

If @Sayle can confirm that we'll still have the ability to just add more hull to this if we take the vertical nacelles, I'll probably swap since I want to push new nacelle tech too. But if they don't, unless we want our only high quality science ships to be our long range explorers and have to keep a bunch of them back to handle anything particularly weird close to home where they aren't taking advantage of their range, the Brahe needs to be a very good science ship with a bunch of prototypes more than it needs to be a prototype testbed that can do some science.

As for cruise speed, yes it would be nice to have a cruise speed boost on this ship. The parallel arrangement also provides that. Not as much as the vertical sure, but it's still there and IMO it won't compromise the Brahe's capabilities as a science ship as much vertical arrangement without the secondary hull would.
 
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No. If you can't outrun something in warp you can't outrun them. They can hop into warp and jump in front of you. Sublight is for evading attacks and keeping your guns on target.


I mean, instead of the normally spindly arm holding the nacelle we have a thicker secondary hull where we put a shuttle bay. It should be doable.
Description in the update proper pretty much implies no secondary hull, period, should the Vertical configuration be chosen.
 
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