KlavoHunter
THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!
UFS Sonic The Hedgehog, UFS Knuckles The Echidna, UFS Rainbow Dash...
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[X] Support (Cargo, Fabrication, Repair)
- Location
- Somewhere and somewhen in time and space
[X] Frontier (Cargo, Evacuation, Medical)
[X] Support (Cargo, Fabrication, Repair)
[X] Support (Cargo, Fabrication, Repair)
The current political meta doesnt favor those, and the design brief is fundamentally about requesting an anchor point for a task force. Repair capabilities feed into that role. Moreover, its pretty clear that Starfleet is looking at how they were literally hard carried by the lack of starbases and Deep Space Stations for the Klingons to take advantage of as refueling depots.
Diffusion is the game here, so acting like that role isnt necessary when it was explicitly requested and is implicitly favored...Is kind of an incorrect reading of the situation
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Empress_Boog
Grand Empress
[X] Frontier (Cargo, Evacuation, Medical)
Support or Frontier could work here I think, but I am always a big fan of medical.
Support or Frontier could work here I think, but I am always a big fan of medical.
Really not surprising it has a lackluster science capability when people don't vote to put science in the ship. This vote right here is where we'd be saying we want this ship to be better than a Cygnus at some space science. It's a massive platform we could likely get some synergy in module choices. It's where the bulk of a science score would be chosen.
As is it feels like people have decided that since it's already good at fast cargo and tender duties we must lean even further into that without attempting to develop another specialty. I'm unconvinced that outside of some niche cases it'll provide a big value in time saving. Will the ships it's supporting be that close together while being far enough away from our hubs? It feels like we're setting this ship up to burn months of time in transit to save roughly the same number of months for other smaller ships. If the Federation needs a region like that supported then they build up the infrastructure for a defendable hub and drop a Pharos for good measure.
This ship goes about twice as fast as those smaller ships, so you are spending at most 1 day to save 2, especially when you consider that the Federation can carry supplies to put stop multiple ships and so you spend a day to save more like 5 or 6 days of other ships time.
And meanwhile there is a colony or two along the way, so you pack some supplies to drop off, and they need some stuff built so you set the manufacturing facilities to work while you transit.
Except the lessons of the 4YW strongly warn against that set up. What drove the Klingons to their misplaying was explicitly a lack of such hardened infrastructure - the two times there were battles around Pharos stations they resulted in a pyrrhic victory and a decisive loss, resulting in both Pharos Stations having to be scuttled explicitly to prevent a worst case scenario.
It doesn't work.
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
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- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean, we haven't picked a name for this one yet... or a Ranger class.Okay, now we *have* to call a future light/heavy cruiser warship the Huntsman-class.
Onionjones
The LCAF's best social general
- Location
- Tharkad
Like the carrier?
We could follow it up with a UFS Kitty Hawk, UFS Yorktown, UFS Illustrious etc
a lot of those names for carriers probably work well here
Don't modern carriers sometimes refuel the rest of their task force because they are often nuclear powered so in role that's somewhat similar
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Reminder
The peacetime meta is solo operations. You are not going to have Feddies anchoring Miranda squadrons; the Federation does not have enough starships for that
No it will not
The same reasons we arent using the Archer that way would also apply to some scenario where its armaments and speed are obsolescent
You are mistaken
This was not part of Starfleet's post-war conclusions
EDIT
Im afraid people are voting based on a mistaken impression of what the Support option in particular represents
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If those other ships are all together you can see savings, if they're all spread out you don't. The time going from ship to ship to get to their own patrol locations would kill any sort of advantage. Especially when you've got to travel 4 days sideways with a Federation to string together your route compared to the smaller ship using 4 days going directly to and from the closest support hub.
It only doesn't work if you don't harden your infrastructure or have enough ships nearby. This ship can stand up to a fight that a Pharos can't.
But if it's doing fleet support and resupply in an area at any significant frequency then we clearly have the ships nearby and that justifies building up hardened infrastructure instead of continuing to rely on a long (and relatively thin) logistics backbone. The Pharos isn't meant to be a hard point on it's own, it's meant to actually cut down on the resupply and refuel loop. If there's not a huge need for the role then we don't have a huge need to lean into that capability.
The US Navy played around with technology to turn sea water to kerosene, but ultimately didn't adopt it. The aircraft carrier had the power, but ultimately they decided not to go that direction.
And it was boat and plane fuel, not other ship fuel.
But they dont do any such thing?
This was the end of war retrospective
Note that nowhere does Starfleet say it was a mistake to build stations, or resolve to stop building them
Lets not swing from one extreme to the other
Especially since the Miranda is going to have a range thats around a third of the Feddie
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- Outside the Box
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This ship has enough speed and range to make regular supply checks for far-flung colonies. I think it stands to reason that it could also manage resupplying other starships when they need it. The hope here is they could greatly help keep more ships circulating along the frontier where they're most needed rather than needing to resupply back to the core as often.
Nope, the Federaton has never built many Pharos stations and no new ones for quite a while before the four year war. The frontier colonies don't have any logistics like that. All the pharos arecurently in our core, mid rim colonies from my read at least.
Corect thats why we made her a heavy cruiser and now vote to make her a good support vessel! That way in piece time she hunts pirates and ships cargo in the outer colonies around for more than a year before returning with a belly full of materials from said colonies.
Nope im voting based on wanting a frontier/border colonies support vessel that can help industrial/logistical development while also acting as tender for other ships! Thats shes a fleet lynchpin in war is just a good synergy.
We aren't talking about days of travel time for detours its weeks or months as again all our fuel infrastructure is not in the border/frontier colonies!
...
No, like, there was an entire post outlining that observation to be the case?
Like, its made very clear that trading territory for time was Starfleets intended method to fight off the Klingons, and even if things didnt always go the way that Starfleet had preferred, the pressure of those logistical demands is what drove Karhammur to commit to the Andorian attack that ultimately doomed him and his war.
There's no way that Starfleet isnt incorporating that lesson when the situation for them is as tenuous as it is.
[X] Frontier (Cargo, Evacuation, Medical)
Onionjones
The LCAF's best social general
- Location
- Tharkad
Didn't know about the idea to turn sea water into kerosine - have no idea how that would work
I guess otherwise I got bunker oil mixed up with jet-1a or whatever they use but that is still some sort of underway replenishment and this is the first ship here capable of that
They're still good names I think except ranger isn't really great for the lead ship
...Don't put words into my mouth, please. I explicitly stated that the scenario I was responding to isnt one that is solved by plopping down a bunch of phaser satellites and a Pharos.
And in a follow up post I referred to two examples by which it demonstrably did not work as means of deterring an in force assault, and in fact would represent a potential detriment in a total war scenario.
Moreover, you citing this:
As a means of contradicting my assertion is you flat out misreading things; I was straight up referring to how to deal with long range deployments and the individual engagements necessitated by deep interstellar warfare by pointing out that the Freddie as a support ship meets those needs more than adequately as per the current needs of the Federation
You are mistaken. Utterly.
Except we come back into the fact that infrastructure can be captured by a hostile actor, and the Pharos lacks the capability - even with support - to ward off a determined attacker, especially if they're a hostile powers task group. That kind of consideration has to wait until we have a new Starbase design on hand fit for the demands of the Frontier. The Pharos simply doesn't cut it, and it showed that in the 4YW consistently.
Edit: Additionally, under the current circumstances a logistics chain consisting of multiple relatively thin supply lines forming a web is actually ideal as a deterrent against hostile actors at the current time. There's no infrastructure really worth taking outside of outlying territories as a land grab, and a land grab is something Starfleet is able to punish incredibly harshly with the Federations joining the Excalibur classes as the cores of a task group.
You'd need to commit to a big enough push that rearline raids would be survivable, and that would necessitate a total war scenario. One in which you'd need to commit enough resources to reach the Core Federation worlds, as otherwise you wouldn't be making any dents in the Federations warmaking capability. At least until you commit to attrition, at which point said Task Groups would be attritioning your investments the entire time with the advantage of a defender.
Its a bold risk to take, and one that the most likely taker already attempted and failed in doing so. Most political entities dont have an appetite for such a war, and for the rest, Freddies in the role they're shaping up to be would be a more than adequate answer to; specifically limited warfare.
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Fine, "Pharos like functionality". The only places this should be a massive issue are where we lost our older Pharos stations or the places where our colonist population has surged enough to justify putting one down.
Yeah, it was a small scaled example. Multiply those numbers by like 10. If we've got loads of unsupported ships months away from their closest resupply in territory we consider dangerous enough to need a Federation we're losing those ships.
If any peer-enemy is going to concentrate enough forces they'll take out whatever fixed installations we have. Right now the goal is to keep ships close to areas and deal with distributed a pirate presence. They're also supposed to be a clear sign that the Federation is alert and to act as a tripwire. Any force distribution that accomplishes these tasks will be at risk from a defeat caused by a peer state fleet if they decide to do so. Should we not distribute ships to do the job we need because we fear they could be destroyed in a decade?