Starfleet Design Bureau

2241: Four Years War (Part Two)
The Federation had always known that all-out conflict with the Klingon Empire was possible, but the centralisation of power had always been considered a nightmare scenario. Equally-matched Great Houses, internal Klingon politics, and simple distance had always been considered the main obstacles to a major Klingon incursion. Unfortunately the first two problems had been handily solved by Karhammur and the D7, but the last proved a vital lifeline for a reeling Starfleet. For all the sophistication of their newest capital ship and the investment in building as many as possible the Klingons were still limited by their slowest and shortest-range fleet elements. The main advance stalled out thirty light years deep, leaving dozens of minor colonies behind the line but no industrial hubs that could replenish the fuel needed to continue the attack.

As the Klingons consolidated their gains they also began to ship material for depots and resupply bases into their newly conquered territory, along with the antimatter needed to fuel deeper raids while the majority of the fleet was prepared for the next push. Starfleet did not sit idle and the shipyards began crash retrofits of older ships with the new Mark II phasers. EPS compressors and power boosters were incapable of feeding the weapons enough power to fire on-cycle, but the greater particle density and the higher spike lethality were considered worth the lower fire rate, even if the raw damage on target was unchanged. Meanwhile the Excalibur-class was dispatched en masse behind the frontline to act as commerce raiders. This they accomplished with aplomb and lethal results, their high cruise speed and superlative sprint factors allowing them to swoop in on Klingon convoys and destroy them in minutes.

The penetration of the Klingon rear lines by the Excalibur had its consequences, changing the strategic shape of the conflict as Klingon commanders soon found themselves running low on everything from fuel for their ships to fresh gagh for the mess hall. The bold and relentless surge that saw Starfleet scattered before them slowly ground to a halt beyond a mere rest-and-resupply as the exigencies of war forced alternative methods of fighting. But the advance did not stop entirely, Karhammur encouraging his supporters to accrue glory and victory for their Houses with light but devastating raids on whatever Starfleet elements were within reach. Those that preferred their previous tactics had time to understand personally that lack of supplies made it impossible.

So it was in a matter of months each new push was characterised not by an overwhelming deluge of vessels sweeping away everything in their path, but isolated and strategically-directed raids. With a sudden paucity of antimatter even the most brash commanders hesitated to commit their forces to a deep strike, and instead the unedifying work of setting up well defended depots and safely transporting supplies to the front lines became their primary concern. Klingon morale ebbed from the euphoric high of victory, and the captains of the profoundly lethal D7 found themselves escorting bulk transports and cargo haulers. Nothing else could contend with an Excalibur-class starship.

In this lull the Klingon fleets began to break apart into more diffuse squadrons and task forces as the individual Houses took stock of their newest acquisitions and began to backtrack into investigating some of the more minor colonies that the lightning advances had passed by. As the war entered the second half of its second year, Starfleet became slowly more confident that the situation could be stabilised long enough for the fortification of the outer member worlds to make them too hard a nut to crack. Once it was assured this was the case, the fleet could be consolidated further for a hard counterstrike into the increasingly thin Klingon presence in occupied space.

This confidence was sadly ephemeral. For all the heroic efforts of the Excaliburs behind the line the Klingons readily rediscovered and adapted their tactics to fend off opportunistic attacks on their supply ships. Like the U-boats in the battle of the Atlantic, the captains of the Excalibur-class raiders found the Golden Time was slipping away. The loss of the UFS Excalibur in October of 2241 very much seemed to be the final nail in the coffin. With too many targets and the Klingons making further convoy strikes too risky the decision was made to recall Starfleet assets back beyond the lines to prepare for the expected hammer-blow.

It came sooner than expected, with the House of Antaak suddenly surging forward over twenty light years to strike at Arcadia. With the blow expected to fall on the other side of the front lines towards Pharos Four and the direct line of supply into the Federation core only a small defensive force could be assembled at short notice. Despite the lack of defending starships there had been extensive fortification works, and the Klingon fleet charged headlong into the gauntlet of phaser satellites that now surrounded the planet's orbital infrastructure.

The cost for the Klingons was heavy, but numbers have a quality all of their own. Although the House of Antaak lost over twenty ships in the assault they did successfully oust the few Starfleet vessels in orbit, destroying the eponymous Newton and forcing the partially-repaired Kusanagi to retreat with further battle damage. Captain Paulson would almost certainly have faced court martial for abandoning Arcadia to its fate before being given orders to that effect had he not drawn the pursuing Antaak D7 into the Orion Nebula where both hunter and hunted disappeared to become the stuff of tales and treasure hunters. The once-contender for the position of Chancellor of the Klingon Empire disappeared with him, unlamented and unmourned by followers who had been subject to tactical and strategic failings that cost them both blood and honour.

If the House of Antaak and any other Klingon Great Houses hoped to use the industrialised facilities of Arcadia to support a further invasion they were to be gravely disappointed - Starfleet had never set up refuelling depots over the planet and the small Arcadian naval presence was equipped and supplied to do little more than act as an arm of customs and excise. What antimatter they found stored was barely enough to replenish the fuel and power that the Klingons had expended travelling to the planet, let alone provide the impetus for a further push. In terms of grand strategy the Empire had gained very little and lost valuable ships.

The fall of a Member World was nonetheless catastrophic for Federation morale, with Commander Starfleet resigning for being unable to foresee and predict the assault on Arcadia. The pressure on Starfleet was clear both politically and publically to have at least some small victory now that the Excalibur campaign had been called off. Shortly thereafter they would have their chance, with Karhammur personally leading the long-awaited assault on Pharos Four. Once in his possession the station would be the gateway to the Federation core and the highly developed worlds there.

This timing was not ideal for the defenders, as Admiral Blake had hoped to have at least several Excaliburs repaired and ready to assist in the defense. Instead the defenders were faced with the strongest Klingon House Fleet in the war - a veritable swarm of two dozen Birds-of-Prey, ten D6 cruisers, and nine D7s. The full force of the House of Duras crashed down onto Pharos Four with a vengeance, but this was now a starbase reinforced by phaser satellites and a small flock of Kea-class cruisers in addition to the defenders that had been so thoroughly chased away from Pharos Seven.

Karhammur was not without tactical acumen, and prosecuted a ruthless and incisive command style that saw his cruiser arm advancing first to dismantle the defensive platforms before he committed his lighter forces. This was not without losses to the D6, who were subjected to attack from both the satellites and the defending starships. Of the ten cruisers, only four returned from the second attack run. But the deed was done, and the phaser satellites had been destroyed or disabled by disruptor fire. The wave crashed down as every Bird-of-Prey under the House of Duras' command slammed into Starfleet's defensive line and then straight through to strike at the station's heavy weapon emplacements.

Pharos Four quickly lost its ability to contribute to the battle, while Karhammur held back his heavy cruisers at longer range. The Newtons were forced to rely on the Kea's wide-angle coverage to assist against the Birds-of-Prey, whose attack runs on the slower ships meant focusing fire was nearly impossible. Unfortunately the sheer quantity of the small but deadly Klingon ships meant it the majority of their casualties resulted from the initial closing pass rather than the prolonged engagement that followed, despite it taking a fraction of the time. As the shields of the Newtons failed and Selachii frigates were outright destroyed, Karhammur whittling away at them from extreme range all the while, the lack of supporting fire from Pharos Four or the phaser satellites became a crippling weakness.

With battle turning against Starfleet several of the Newtons disengaged from the main line and retreated behind Pharos Four to beam off the station's skeleton crew, but Karhammur perceived this as a sign that the Federation forces were about to abandon the position and potentially destroy the station. His D7s charged forward from their position at the rear of the engagement, a trio swinging wide to hit each flank while the Chancellor and his own guard pursued the disengaging ships. As a result the crew could not be evacuated while their evacuation ships were under fire, and Admiral Blake ordered all forces to retreat along different routes. While five more ships were chased down and destroyed, the remainder limped away from the battle to fight another day.

Pharos Four was another loss for Starfleet in a war that was becoming characterised by losses for Starfleet. The Klingon boarding teams not only disabled the self-destruct but in a feat of impressive coordination also prevented the detonation of the scuttling charges. While the antimatter production facilities were successfully wrecked by the station crew the undamaged outer tanks promised to provide a ready-made depot for Klingon antimatter supplies in range of the Core Worlds. Or they would have been were it not for an engineer who escaped the Klingon kill teams with a spacesuit and used an overloading hand phaser to critically damage the magnetic constrictors of Pod Three.

The largely depleted pod then demonstrated that a 'few' kilograms of liquid antihydrogen absent a perfectly controlled magnetic field would soon become a diffuse cloud of expanding gas and subsequently a very large explosion. The cause of the sudden self-immolation of Pharos Four would be unknown to Federation historians for over a century absent Klingon accounts and sensor logs, but the effect was immediate: Karhammur's base of operations for the final conquest of the Federation disappeared in a very large fireball.

Frustrated, Karhammur fell back to his forward bases to recover and consider his grand strategy. Friction was beginning to appear internally - glory or conquest would satisfy the other Houses, but a lack of either in an active war would create discontent that could not be afforded when the Chancellor was away from Qo'nos. He decided that if the Federation was to be broken that a single decisive victory was required, and not merely one that would humble Starfleet but a triumph so cataclysmic it would make clear that the United Federation of Planets was a failure altogether. He conceived of a plan that would see the mightiest warships of the Empire - the full force of the House of Duras and its supporters - victorious once and for all. After all, he reasoned, his fleets could strike the very heart of the Federal Core if they didn't need to save fuel for the return trip.

He set his eyes on Andoria. Once the orbitals were secured the world could be used to replenish the Klingon fleets. It was there that the Federation would finally be humbled.
 
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So essentially what I'm hearing is less fixed costs, more mass-based costs.

The problem right now is that since phasers are limited, the only path we see to better combat ships is max speed and forward tubes. Everyone dismisses phasers entirely except for bonus damage on the torpedo alpha burst. The large Excaliber is all forward burst with aft coverage, the tiny Darwin is all forward burst with no phaser coverage at all.

Maybe instead of investing in phaser banks, we have to pay for EPS grid size that scales with ship size. Basically the inverse of the shield formula, it's cheaper to run more phasers the larger the ship.

Small ships can go fast more easily, so they favor torpedoes.

Large ships get more HP and cheaper multi-phaser layouts, so they don't mind being slow and losing torpedo DPS.
 
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I do wonder if we get to see the member fleets of the core worlds come into play for one last hurrah? Because we dont have enough Excaliburs at this point. And losses to other ships have really reduced Starfleet size
 
Starfleet did not sit idle and the shipyards began crash retrofits of older ships with the new Mark II phasers. EPS compressors and power boosters were incapable of feeding the weapons enough power to fire on-cycle, but the greater particle density and the higher spike lethality were considered worth the lower fire rate, even if the raw damage on target was unchanged.
An answer to our questions about refitting older ships with the new phasers. Good to know.

The Newtons were forced to rely on the Kea's wide-angle coverage to assist against the Birds-of-Prey, whose attack runs on the slower ships meant focusing fire was nearly impossible. Unfortunately the sheer quantity of the small but deadly Klingon ships meant it the majority of their casualties resulted from the initial closing pass rather than the prolonged engagement that followed, despite it taking a fraction of the time.
Ah. We're finding the limits of the Newton's agility, and a reminder that most of the ships we're facing are Birds of Prey in large numbers, so the ability to account for that is important. A slower ship with much better phaser coverage like the Kea is one option, but something even smaller than the Darwin as currently designed does seem to have a role, if we can make it cheaply enough.

Or they would have been were it not for an unknown saboteur who escaped the Klingon kill teams with a spacesuit and used an overloading hand phaser to critically damage the magnetic constrictors of Pod Three.
And our Temporal Accord saving throw. Ouch.
 
Meanwhile the Excalibur-class was dispatched en masse behind the frontline to act as commerce raiders. This they accomplished with aplomb and lethal results, their high cruise speed and superlative sprint factors allowing them to swoop in on Klingon convoys and destroy them in minutes.
I know its not technically a battlecruiser but I do feel like there's some more cindicati9n of the concept here. Whilst they were meant to kill commerce raiders those features also lend themselves well to commerce raiding.

Starfleet had never set up refuelling depots over the planet
Huh, score one for making the Pharos then. If we didn't have those hubs we'd have much mote diffuse antimatter supplies thst they could use to their advantage.

Might influence future policy, keeping central hubs that can be more wel defended/blown ti deny the enemy in the future.

. Of the ten cruisers, only four returned from the second attack run
Damn, SanFran can made some good stuff. Just has to be literal monofucused mass produced.

Or they would have been were it not for an unknown saboteur who escaped the Klingon kill teams with a spacesuit and used an overloading hand phaser to critically damage the magnetic constrictors of Pod Three.
All things considered a rather minor investment for an outsized result. If they do have to intervene this is probably the preferred investment.

He set his eyes on Andoria. Once the orbitals were secured the world could be used to replenish the Klingon fleets. It was there that the Federation would finally be humbled.
Well, unless Pharos 4 can be considered it this will be our Midway/their Ten-Go. Hopefully.
 
Current mechanics render the prices meaningless.
There is no trade off between phasers and torpedoes. The combination of technology and rules says "take the minimum number of phasers required to reliably put the maximum permitted to fire at once on target and take the maximum number of torpeoes permitted, or get wrecked" We've been punished more than once for trying to do otherwise. Consequently the cost of one vs the other is a non-factor.

The way the weapons work combined with how shields work (cost, effectiveness vs enemy weapons) say high or very high manouverability is Required (because accepting less makes torpedoes worse and you can't actually just use phaser coverage to compensate... And our shields aren't good enough to just tank everything.) Consequently tge cost of impulse engines is functionally... Not a non-factor but a non-deiscion. You take the cheapest option that gives High or better agility (barring other added wrinkles).

Shields and hull size interact with each other and with price such that it's consistently better to have larger emitters on a larger hull using older tech than any other combination. Price Would matter here, except that picking anything less good than the biggest shield that isn't getting penalised for being too new results in outcomes that seem surprisingly similar to not bothering with shields at all (or at least, that's what must be infered from the numbers given and the results of what we have chosen so far), and when there's a fancy new shield option the choices are "worse than the existing minimum acceptable option", "the same strength as the current minimal acceptable option at a higher cost" or "better, but also so disproportionately more expensive compared to the improvement as to be immediately cut for cost reasons on the grounds that it's the only thing we actually Can cut if we're trying to keep costs down without losing the ship the first time it gets in a fight."

There's a lot of things like that where the combination of what tech we do and don't have combined with the way the quest works, both in terms of fluff and crunch, mean there's really only one viable build. If you want different outcomes, there needs to be space to build things that aren't heavy cruisers and have them still be able to function...

Of course anything that actually does that won't "feel like star trek" (other than Maybe heavily reworking the phaser limits, but we've had that argument enough times) because star trek is basically built around heavy (in some cases ultraheavy) cruisers at a fairly fundamental level.

Or at least, that's how it seems to me at this point.
 
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The combination of technology and rules says "take the minimum number of phasers required to reliably put the maximum permitted to fire at once on target and take the maximum number of torpeoes permitted, or get wrecked" We've been punished more than once for trying to do otherwise.
The performance of the Refit Kea in this very update says you're wrong. It's the Newtons, not the Kea, that are having problems.

Coverage costs, but we're seeing right now that it does have utility, especially in fleet versus fleet fights rather than one-on-one duels.

Now, what is an issue is that having good enough shielding is almost purely a matter of mass, which means if we want a cheap combatant we should currently be building a big one (possibly with light shielding rather than heavy) because it's easier to fix agility with a second Type 3 than it is to make up additional defenses with a heavier shield generator, and the Newtons are just fragile.

We can make nasty little attack frigates just fine. The problem is that they are pricy in addition to lacking utility.

Edit: Right, running the numbers here. Using a single Type 3 Impulse a 90kton frigate has maximum agility. Mount a single RFL on it, minimum phasers, and a heavy shield generator and we're looking at 5 + 12 + 4x2 + 16.7*.9 = 40 cost, before Warp Core or Nacelles. Or hull, but I think that's like 3 per 100ktons? Pretty trivial. Also, not that much cheaper than an Excalibur for what we're getting out of it.

I think the simplest response, assuming @Sayle wants to encourage the design of vicious fighty frigates, is to add "ablative armor" or "structural reinforcements" or whatever (maybe some kind of custom shield-mod) as an optional add-on, that give us an extra flat, non-scaling bonus to defense but has a cost to add that scales with ship mass. This solves one of the biggest problem with our light ships - they die like flies - without simultaneously boosting big ships as well.
 
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Taking the archer's shield strength (22) as the minimal for any combat focused starship we would need a 146,500 tonne starship to equal its shield strength with light covariant shields, 110,000 tonnes to equal it with standard covariant and 88,000 tonnes for heavy covariant.

The shield costs would be: 11 for light, 12.5/13 for standard and 14.7/15 for heavy on their respective hull masses.
 
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Higher than the Newton's, I'll note!
By 3 points, which is kinda funny given the Newton is expected to see itself closer to the border/weird shit than the Archer (it and the Archer also show that shield strength is not rounded up to the nearest whole number but rather down, since the Archer is actually 22.5 and the Newton 19.5).

Also, I've added the costs on the given masses.
"The shield costs would be: 11 for light, 12.5/13 for standard and 14.7/15 for heavy on their respective hull masses."
 
Also, I've added the costs on the given masses.
"The shield costs would be: 11 for light, 12.5/13 for standard and 14.7/15 for heavy on their respective hull masses."
Costs aren't quite as bad as I was worried they might be; the 4 point difference between the heavy shielding and the light shielding is more than it costs to build the bigger hull, but it doesn't also cover the additional engines, so what we're gaining in mass comes out of our agility.

The bigger ship would be able to do more science or engineering missions, though.
 
There really has been no incentive to build anything besides torpedo boats as big as we can. between phaser limitations pushing us back towards canon, thrust being so cheap, and getting told we were wrong the last time we tried to make a phaser boat, phasers are the first thing cut for cost.
 
forcing the partially-repaired Kusanagi to retreat with further battle damage. Captain Paulson would almost certainly have faced court martial for abandoning Arcadia to its fate before being given orders to that effect had he not drawn the pursuing Antaak D7 into the Orion Nebula where both hunter and hunted disappeared to become the stuff of tales and treasure hunters.

Some real legends of space stuff there. The Kusanagi simply listed as still on patrol.

Had an old nebula prospector swear to me once that he caught a glimpse of the Kusanagi and the Antaak frozen in a temporal anomaly, still exchanging fire. I don't believe it, mostly, but still... you do see strange things sometimes off the shoulder of Orion.
 
Between the problems with gathering enough ships on short notice to defend against concentrated assaults, the anemic defense of the Pharos stations, and how a gauntlet of even the basic single-phaser defense satellites managed to deliver damage, I'm going to guess one of the first projects of the post-war is going to a larger Starbase meant to defend Federation member worlds.

Something big and heavy enough to hold off an entire fleet, with the express purpose of preventing another Arcadia from happening, for both military and political reason.
 
Wow, things are going badly badly. Monofocusing on expansion can't be said to have paid off, when the next war we get in has the enemy going right through said expansion.
 
So.. that was a disaster, like if we had not been lucky (or had temporal agents covering our ass) we would be up shit creek with no paddle. Our fleet is getting munched hard, we have lost a member world. We don't have enough ships to really do much, luckily the klingon in charge is an idiot and doesn't just sue for peace so is gonna over extend. Also turns out static defenses have had a good effect on the enemy in at least making them think twice before attacking something we should build more of them, perhaps even a frigate to be stationed near or around colonies to protect them. That's just my idea to prevent the whole the enemy can show up and avoid your main battlefleet because it's so small.
 
Wow, things are going badly badly. Monofocusing on expansion can't be said to have paid off, when the next war we get in has the enemy going right through said expansion.

Yes and no.

There's been a real "Pacific Theater of WWII" vibe where the Klingons have been playing the part of Imperial Japan, hoping to secure enough resources in a massive blitz to support their expansion. Now they're preparing to throw the dice on one massive do-or-die battle where if they lose, they've essentially lost the war.
 
Yes and no.

There's been a real "Pacific Theater of WWII" vibe where the Klingons have been playing the part of Imperial Japan, hoping to secure enough resources in a massive blitz to support their expansion. Now they're preparing to throw the dice on one massive do-or-die battle where if they lose, they've essentially lost the war.
Honestly the diffusion of Starfleet Logistics is what's saving it right now, barring outrageous luck pre-Temporal Agent save.

It's important to remember that this is an escalation of sorts from Canon thanks to Perfidious Romulus using the Klingons as a Cats Paw extremely overtly
 
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