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So, this:
Where the Pharos was the second choice, we might get called upon to design the third. I think that would be fun.
KlavoHunter
THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!
We did nothing wrong, it's the Klingons who are to blame...
REMEMBER BRASILIA!!!
*invests everything into warships forever*
Edit: And do remember that the Klingons are spending battlecruisers like water to get these results...
*heavy breathing, foams at the mouth*
REMEMBER BRASILIA!!!
*invests everything into warships forever*
Edit: And do remember that the Klingons are spending battlecruisers like water to get these results...
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Us doing the big starbase (because we tend to over perform/over deliver when it comes to big important stuff), SanFran making Newton but Warp 8/good and some new bureau making a new tactical cruiser design would be ideal post war, imo.
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Oh for sure the Klingons aren't looking like they're necessarily going to win this war, but I was more talking about how a bunch of the extra expansion our choices have led to have been burnt up by Klingon invaders. It certainly doesn't look like we'll be ahead of canon after the war.
The counterpoint to that is that the Klingons really are bigger and richer than the Federation. If they were truly politically unified and played this sensibly, they very much could follow through and win a total war.
Well they haven't been destroying our expansions, they've been taking them over to use themselves, so I... don't think they'll be too damaged after the war? So we shouldn't lose much by way of colonies or the like. Also, that's only in the direction of Klingon space, I presume we are expanding in every direction, so that should only be a portion of our gains anyways.
The small ones probably wouldn't have fared any better. Events have shown that if we don't want a debacle like this happening again, time to make fortresses on the borders.
We still need a big defensive anchor stations for member worlds. After Arcadia there will be no political will to oppose the demand for such a station.
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
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My thoughts on that are mixed.
On the one hand, the Klingons showing ridiculous coordination to cancel the Self Destruct AND the scuttling charges only for the base to be blown up anyway feels like it could be a Consensus fight.
On the other, heroic Starfleet engineers sacrificing themselves when it all goes to hell worse than they imagined is the kind of thing we see happen an awful lot. Not all unsung heroes are temporal agents.
I personally like to think that this was actually us, or possibly even us fighting off a timeline alteration by Klingons who pushed from the future.
...Oh. I haven't seen the last season of Picard. So THAT'S what Earth Spacedock is for. Oh.
That depends entirely on if we can liberate our occupied planets. Either way though the memories of Klingon occupation and atrocities are going to make peace a LOT harder going forward. And we've seen again and again that occupying Klingon forces, especially in this era, are quite medieval in the level of awfulness expected.
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I don't think it was. After all, most of our expansion wasn't in the direction of the Klingons, and so wasn't burned as they dived for our core.
... Whether that extra expansion makes up for taking a core hit, well. I don't think that's worth arguing about; what's happened has happened.
The Andorian Imperial Guard shadow fleet will hopefully come in clutch here.
Is it copium? Perhaps, but between them still making cutting edge starships Starfleet can use in the late 24th century (see lower decks) and the insightful made on the post about them potentially making their own/their own variant of the class I feel it has a decent chance.
It's also one of the lesser ways to exert temporal agent influence to achieve an outsized effect, much less risky to get the Andorian population to go "we want eight and we won't wait!" (alongside some other things) than it is to have a dude blow up the storage tanks of a starbase.
If you can mess with the geometry to allow 3 standard launchers that saves around 5 cost and 35 cost for a new Selachii isn't terrible.
I have no problem with the technology and mechanics making some designs more efficient for 2-4 designs. I think this mirrors shifts in combat approaches that happen in real life. Then militaries find the weaknesses and adjust their approach/R&D budgets to try deal with them. Starfleet being pushed toward larger multirole ships and trying to figure out how to make the budget work for smaller ships seems fine to me for another design or two. At that point we'll have had 20 years of background industrial buildup, research, and combat experience that should force Starfleet to figure it out.
IMO it felt like we didn't get a Selachii option because creating meaningful choices would be a challenge for the quest design process and not that Starfleet couldn't make it. It might be more expensive than desired but <40% cost lets a case be made.
This presumes we'll be able to liberate all the worlds that the Klingons have invaded. I have doubts about that, we don't I think have the capacity to build some huge fleet to push them back and the loss of infrastructure will hamper any counterpush. Maybe if the Empire really destabilizes to the point that houses give it up to make us go away, or we can slowly pick apart their gains from individual houses.
joe6168
Just a humble lurker
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So just for fun I was re-reading the design of the type-3 nacelle, and I can't help but imagine a 'what if' where we took slightly different choices for even higher performance cost be damned.
Specifically the injectors and field stabilizers
Because if I understand it correctly if we had taken the compressor rings and asymmetric stabilizer we could have had an Excalibur with an efficient cruise of almost Warp 7, and a max Warp of damn near 9.
Am I understanding things correctly here, or am I just completely wrong? Because can you just imagine the looks on the faces of the Temporal Agents trying to understand how we managed those kinds of speeds this early in the timeline?
Specifically the injectors and field stabilizers
Because if I understand it correctly if we had taken the compressor rings and asymmetric stabilizer we could have had an Excalibur with an efficient cruise of almost Warp 7, and a max Warp of damn near 9.
Am I understanding things correctly here, or am I just completely wrong? Because can you just imagine the looks on the faces of the Temporal Agents trying to understand how we managed those kinds of speeds this early in the timeline?
On the one hand, post-war Starfleet and any member fleets can expect a shitton more funding.
On the other hand, there probably will be mandates about spending a lot of that funding not on mobile warships that can be redeployed, but on fixed bases around core worlds.
Certainly explains why piracy gets to flourish post war if the budgets are going into fortifications.
That said, Im looking at this performance, looking at the number of Excaliburs that were allegedly built and scratching my head.
The only way I can find a total build of 18 plausible under these conditions would be if they promptly designed a bigger, beefier Warp 8 ship and built like 40 of them post-War.
On the other hand, there probably will be mandates about spending a lot of that funding not on mobile warships that can be redeployed, but on fixed bases around core worlds.
Certainly explains why piracy gets to flourish post war if the budgets are going into fortifications.
That said, Im looking at this performance, looking at the number of Excaliburs that were allegedly built and scratching my head.
The only way I can find a total build of 18 plausible under these conditions would be if they promptly designed a bigger, beefier Warp 8 ship and built like 40 of them post-War.
We haven't lost much infrastructure yet though, that's why the Klingons are going for this big push, they've gotten very little of much worth out of their attacks so far, which is causing them internal issues. As to whether we get the stuff they've taken back? Hard to say for sure, but this seems likely to me, as I don't see Starfleet leaving their people in enemy hands if given the option.
Miranda-class time? It's got more volume than the Connie and same weapons fit, and was built in ridiculous numbers, our version would probably be similar (though perhaps with 2x forward RFL).
Endorfinator
Awkwardly Social
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I mean not really? My understanding is that they basically burned a couple decades of accumulated war loot to build up their D7 fleet and spent a much larger portion of their GDP compared to us. The force we are seeing right now isn't really representative of their sustainable economic output. That's why they're desperate to conquer all these colonies so that their economy doesn't implode at the end of this.
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Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
The cost rating being C+ and the economy of the Federation being gutted by first the overextension and then the war. The need to have more ships to cover the far-flung spacelanes for anti-piracy patrols means that dedicated warships for fighting peer-power navies get short shrift. 18 C+ Excaliburs is already 4 more than the A+ cost Constitutions in the main timeline, and so quite a bit more total cost.
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Assuming we do get a big 'bastion' starbase project post war, as well as for strategic locations I'd imagine it'd be a shoe in for something to have over every full member world. Which means that hopefully costs wouldn't be entirely on Starfleet but also come out of their internal fleet budgets (since it'll also guard them, and their forces would also do some manning/have access).
Unleash the ping-pong balls of doom!
Basically a sphere or hemisphere (which we haven't been offered yet as a shape) would maximise our forward area, wouldn't it?
Otherwise some fashion of elongated d4 (tetrahedron) might also work for the frontage part.