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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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steampvnc1880 said:
When all is said and done will the giant robot dragon be a person or an object? Will it become a character in the quest or a prop/tool? Is there anything that can be done to make it more likely to be a character like using more brains for the runes or something in the head?
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We don't have sure ways of making it more likely to be a character. Using more energy on its animating runes and using the Godhammer are our best options at the moment. Using brains is unlikely to do anything in this regard.
 
Doesn't our elemental scale in power and ability based on our current equipment? What is wielding KKR going to do to it?
 
DragonParadox said:
Then how do you prove he's being a hypocrite? My point is Snori himself does not know if one Dragon Gontri is better than a larger number of smaller ones. Why would be take Vrangi's word for it? Vrangi has even less information than he does and he biased.
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The rule of pride as we understand it, and our current inability to slave multiple gronti to the same MRa means that this isn't a comparison we can actually use.

Snorri *can't* just make multiple gronti instead of one big one.
 
BungieONI said:
So little under a hundred years, when using our future production capacity. The thing I like about having to build smelters to forge the dragon in reasonable time is that they will continue to exist afterwards, and can be used for making better hearthguard kit or other projects which are much more communalist. Off the top of my head, giving Valayan guild members healing items made of Adamant.
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See the thing that doesn't ring right to me... why would we need to wait for Adamant to give Valayan guild members healing items?

And after thats done. Full Adamant Hearthguard is still 240 to 1200 Adamant depending on if you just want armour or full equipment, so we're still going to need to increase production again for that.
And even apart from that, Snorri isn't just going to give away Adamant to people who haven't earnt the secret by developing it themselves at which point they're probably inducted into the brotherhood and have their own super smelter producing more than they can likely use.
And theres only so much that soulcake will allow us to sell to the Brotherhood for free research and runes before he puts his foot down.

If the only thing we can do with Adamant is increasingly ostentatious displays which will require us to further increase production as each successive thing needs to be larger than the previous one, I think we're in a pretty poor state as far as gameplay goes.
 
Byzantine said:
The rule of pride as we understand it, and our current inability to slave multiple gronti to the same MRa means that this isn't a comparison we can actually use.

Snorri *can't* just make multiple gronti instead of one big one.
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He can, he just has to come up with more runic combination to put on each of them, they would just be worse than he he just spammed the combination which he can't do by the Rule.
 
DragonParadox said:
He can, he just has to come up with more runic combination to put on each of them, they would just be worse than he he just spammed the combination which he can't do by the Rule.
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No, because they each require the same Master Rune. And even our lax interpretation of the rule of pride only allows so many of the same master rune in a period.
 
Byzantine said:
No, because they each require the same Master Rune.
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You are allowed to use the same Master Rune by Snori's measure at least. What you are not allowed to use more than once in several centuries is the same combination of three, like we use to make forges for instance. It's not just the Master Rune of Purification, it is that plus the other two. If we wanted to put it on a banner it would not matter if we made a forge last week.
 
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Byzantine said:
The rule of pride as we understand it, and our current inability to slave multiple gronti to the same MRa means that this isn't a comparison we can actually use.

Snorri *can't* just make multiple gronti instead of one big one.
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Dragon is correct here:
soulcake said:
Q. How do Difficult Requests interact with the Rule of Pride mechanically?
If the item you're making for a difficult request only has normal Runes you won't run afoul of the Rule of Pride. If it involves Master Runes then a rough guideline is 3-4 copies of the same Master Rune or Combo with a Master Rune within 10 turns is fine. But more than that and you start risking things.
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People get confused because "Why does the combo matter if the MRune is also limited? Surely its one or the other?" the MRune and combo are both limited because some combos don't involve MRunes.
 
That last time we forged in a storm, something moved in to our armor/skarren. If we stormforge the dragon, this time around we're going in with an upgraded BA that will go MORE POWER again, an anvil that's been changed to pull more deep magic than the first time, KKR which explicitly draws in winds and pulls more deep magic, whatever weird interaction Skarren will have in a storm, and Brynbar which is another wind manipulator/deep magic pulling item. In addition, unlike last time, all three runes being forged focus on deep magic manipulation. 2/3 of the reagents are greedy troll hearts - more deep magic related items.

With all that going on, I hope Snorri's able to manifest the glittering realm again and actually remember it this time and maybe pull something out of it. The funniest outcome would be if whatever was animating Thungni's dragon in the trial decided to move into the dragon.
 
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soulcake said:
Specialty Levels go as follows:
0: [Not Listed]
1: [Listed-]
2: [Listed ]
3: [Listed+]
4: [Exceptional-]
5: [Exceptional]
6: [Exceptional+]
7: [Mastered-]
8: [Mastered]
9: [Mastered+]
10: [Savant]
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Super cool to see the expanded granularity here! Let's look at what this means for Snorri.
soulcake said:
Specialties:
Runes: General Rune Subset: Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered), Talismanic Runes, Engineering Runes, General Rune Subset: Power
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soulcake said:
Aldrhunki: +2 to Specialty Modifier when researching Runes.
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Snorri's Specialties:

  • MAIN CATEGORIES
    • Weapon Runes — 2
    • Armor Runes — 2
    • Talisman Runes — 4
    • Banner Runes — 2
    • Engineering Runes — 4
    • Structural Runes — 2
  • General Rune Subsets
    • Odd and Esoteric Runes — 8
    • General Rune Subset: Power — 2
For clarity when performing calculations, only the main categories have been modified to have the bonus from Aldrhunki since one of those will always be present and the modifier doesn't stack.
 
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Byzantine said:
I read that as we can use the same master rune 3-4 times a century period? Combo or not.
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Correct, and we can also use the same master rune 3-4 times a period even if its in the same combo.
Snorri can make 3 Gronti, granted this would require us to scale back the size as even after upgraded production we'd be 100 or so Adamant short of 3 Plated Emperor sized Grontis. If we did try and do this for multiple centuries in a row though, we'd probably get people raising eyebrows.
 
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BungieONI said:
We don't have sure ways of making it more likely to be a character. Using more energy on its animating runes and using the Godhammer are our best options at the moment. Using brains is unlikely to do anything in this regard.
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Actually we can research a rune for that.

soulcake said:
(*Updated*)[ ] [Difficult] The Mind of Things Pt. 6: [Cost: (10 -4) =6 actions] Master of the Odd will proc. You have managed to create a Rune that, on the whole, can transfer skills and experience from one Dwarf to another. An impressive feat, and yet one not without flaw. It is skill imparted without context, which must still be earned. You can do more, you can do better. True comprehension, transference of that which makes a skill, experience; or in other words, the wisdom to temper knowledge.
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All we need is to copy Snorri's mind and have it serve as the dragons mind.
 
BungieONI said:
No sadly. We don't really know what other people's production rates are. You have prodded me to do the math for our own throughput though.

Pulling up Arch's own Adamant production math from here: RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest) Fantasy - Users' Choice!

At our current production of 10 bars a turn, it'd take about 19 turns to match the dragon. Since we're going to be improving that to a baseline of 22 bars a turn, it'd take 9 turns for our own production to equal 192 bars.

So little under a hundred years, when using our future production capacity. The thing I like about having to build smelters to forge the dragon in reasonable time is that they will continue to exist afterwards, and can be used for making better hearthguard kit or other projects which are much more communalist. Off the top of my head, giving Valayan guild members healing items made of Adamant.

Or when Akazit gets off the ground, adamant reagent producing crucibles and machines. Making healing potions from Adamant magic cauldrons sounds fun.
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The Snow Guard looms in the distance, and it makes me very very happy.
Dark as Silver said:
See the thing that doesn't ring right to me... why would we need to wait for Adamant to give Valayan guild members healing items?

And after thats done. Full Adamant Hearthguard is still 240 to 1200 Adamant depending on if you just want armour or full equipment, so we're still going to need to increase production again for that.
And even apart from that, Snorri isn't just going to give away Adamant to people who haven't earnt the secret by developing it themselves at which point they're probably inducted into the brotherhood and have their own super smelter producing more than they can likely use.
And theres only so much that soulcake will allow us to sell to the Brotherhood for free research and runes before he puts his foot down.

If the only thing we can do with Adamant is increasingly ostentatious displays which will require us to further increase production as each successive thing needs to be larger than the previous one, I think we're in a pretty poor state as far as gameplay goes.
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I'm fully intending to break down the Snow Guard plan into various stages, and drip-feeding it through our Adamant supplies. Doing it all in one go is more than a little absurd, but doing it in chunks and slices is very much plausible.

Especially if we can get Waystone Tapping running.

That, by predictions, should result in about halving the time needed.

And a unit of fully Adamant equipped Elders is the kind of thing that changes the battlefield.

Sorta like the dragon itself, but instead of an anti-super-unit weapon, it's for handling and crushing other hostile elite forces.

(We're gonna be fighting Chaos for yonks, I assume doctrinally they WILL have super units and elite forces, it's how they work.)
 
what are the current valid plan sets we voting on? think there were some which were mechanically impossible the last I read?
 
tri2 said:
what are the current valid plan sets we voting on? think there were some which were mechanically impossible the last I read?
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The plans that are mechanically impossible were these two.

[] Plan: Fires of Inspiration, Hammer and Drakks (Together Version)
[] Plan: The Dragon Kaiju Begins (Together) and Checking in on Draco Grandkids


The current possible plan sets are either

->go check in on the dragon kids with Karstah, design our own dragon gronti, and make progress on ESP while Karstah builds a banner for the Hearthguard. This is the leading plan.

the second place plan is
->make progress on ESP, design our own dragon gronti, have Karstah check on the dragon kids by herself, Karstah builds the Flamedrinking talisman we designed last turn, and examines the Godhammer.

remaining plans are slight variations on these two ideas.
 
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