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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Andmeuths said:
Structural Runic Amplification almost certainly converts magic into runic energy in some way, shape or form. It's 2AP away to convert this rune, and thanks to Echoes of the Anvil, there's plenty of Aqshy, Chamon and Hysh to fuel Runic Amplification. Improving on it probably requires us to go down Monolith Mastery.
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Note that Runic Amplification does this:

Enemies suffer greater casting debuff, spells cast around the user are broken up and used to improve the casting of all Runes around the user.​

It specifically breaks up spells. It doesn't absorb magic in general. From the description, given that having more magic around strengthens runes (we saw this during the Storm of Magic), then Runic Amplification could just break down spells, as it says, but what it breaks them down into is simply the Winds of which spells are made, and it then pulls those Winds towards the runesmith who then uses them to empower the runes they cast, doing the conversion themselves. It doesn't say that the rune is doing the conversion itself, just breaking down the spell.

Tl;dr: eating spells is different to eating the unstructured Winds. I suspect the later is the purview of the Rune of Sorcery.
 
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Alratan said:
Note that Runic Amplification does this:

Enemies suffer greater casting debuff, spells cast around the user are broken up and used to improve the casting of all Runes around the user.​

It specifically breaks up spells. It doesn't absorb magic in general. From the description, given that having more magic around strengthens runes (we saw this during the Storm of Magic), then Runic Amplification could just break down spells, as it says, but what it breaks them down into is simply the Winds of which spells are made, and it then pulls those Winds towards the runesmith who then uses them to empower the runes they cast, doing the conversion themselves. It doesn't say that the rune is doing the conversion itself, just breaking down the spell.
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If the structure runes have the same limitations, it's basically useless in peacetime inside a Karak, because a structure is unlikely to be exposed to many spells being cast around it outside of an actual siege.

It does give me the absurd imagery of Brana taking the Chamon and Aqshy lying around and shaping it into spells to feed a Runic Amplification array though. :rofl:
 
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pucflek said:
Absolutely not.

WoG is straight up that ritual done correctly petrifies you.

A ritual done incorrectly is almost as dangerous. That we did not blow up this time is because Soulcake wanted us to have cool shit without killing us with no warning, but actually trying to dip into miscasting Rituals? Thats straight up insanity.
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That sounds like an even better argument to follow up on what exactly happened here. If we made a crude ritual by accident once, we should really find out how that happened so we don't do it again and kill ourselves. Anoqeyån might also help with future progress on Akazit and the Waystones.
 
Andmeuths said:
If the structure runes have the same implication, it's basically useless in peacetime, within a Karak outside of that Karak being seiged.

It does give me the absurd imagery of Brana taking the Chamon and Aqshy and shaping it into spells to feed the Runic Amplification array though.
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Note as well that it doesn't make runes crafted under its influence stronger or temporarily strengthen the effects of nearby runes. It specifically and only strengthens runecasting. Rune casting itself is only useful in combat, so it would make sense for a structural version of Runic Amplification to only work in combat as well, as that's what it's for. It's deigned that when the enemy tries to throw fire at you, they fail and you become better at throwing fire back.

Structural runic amplification probably means a structure with the rune can absorb spells thrown at it and strengthen runesmiths in the structure throwing runecasting attacks back.

There seem to be four types of rune empowerment:

Strengthen runecasting: Runic Amplification does this
Allow runes to recharge faster: Rune of Siphoning does this
Temporarily empower nearby runes: Storms of Magic and our set combo does this
Permanently empower runes crafted: Waystones and the Arcane Fulcrum Anvil does this

Some effects do one or more of these, but they're not interchangeable nor is it a simple power scaling.
 
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veekie said:
The gromril channeled the power of the ritual until they disintegrated I think.

The alternative would have been the far more fragile dwarfs casting it. Or the building's greater resistance and lower durability.
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I did not think of that, that would be a good explanation to be honest but my brain can't stop thinking about Snorri going to his vault at 3 Am and finding 3 dangernoodles stuffing their faces with Gromril and looking like a deer in headlights when they get caught.
 
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soulcake said:
Second, you had surrounded yourself with a great deal of sympathetic items; the volume of Ancestor badges, Statues of the Ancestors, Runes, your workshop, the Adamant, Gromril you had on hand, Menlinwen theorizes, would be enough to encompass the totality of Khazagar and make up for the admittedly broad sympathetic resonance
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Heres the bit, the Gromril burned like a reagent
 
Inspired by recent discussions, a #Rune-Idea

The Rune of the Reservoir: an unusual rune only found on the most powerful runic equipment, this rune holds an extra charge of power that can be used to fuel those effects so powerful that they usually require an item to recharge after use. The rune itself will then need to recharge, taking as long again to do so after the item's first charge has recovered.

A rune that would usually be a sun-module/feature of another rune scaled up to take an entire rune slot to supply an even greater amount of power.
 
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Alratan said:
Inspired by recent discussions, a #Rune-Idea

The Rune of the Reservoir: an unusual rune only found on the most powerful runic equipment, this rune holds an extra charge of power that can be used to fuel those effects so powerful that they usually require an item to recharge after use. The rune itself will then need to recharge, taking as long again to do so after the item's first charge has recovered.
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Erm Aren't you just describing the Rune of Empowerment.
soulcake said:
Rune of EmpowermentN/AN/AWhen activated, Gronti and Prosthetics inscribed with this Rune or within range of the bearer will see improved performance for a moderate period of time, they become slightly sluggish for half the time afterwards.
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Dark as Silver said:
Erm Aren't you just describing the Rune of Empowerment.
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No. Empowerment makes a gronti stronger.

The Rune of the Reservoir would mean that an item that you can usually use once per decade as it needs to be recharged in between can instead be used twice in succession, but would need to be recharged for an extra decade to recover the extra charge if it's used.

It's essentially an extra battery.
 
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Alratan said:
No. Empowerment makes a gronti stronger.

The Rune of the Reservoir would mean that an item that you can usually use once per decade as it needs to be recharged in between can instead be used twice in succession, but would need to be recharged for an extra decade to recover the extra charge if it's used.

It's essentially an extra battery.
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If we adapted Empowerment to be an structural rune. Would that be what you're describing. Sounds like we're just nitpicking over whether this is the next on the tech tree or equivalent level.
 
Alratan said:
There seem to be four tiers of rune empowerment:

Strengthen runecasting: Runic Amplification does this
Allow runes to recharge faster: Rune of Siphoning does this
Temporarily empower nearby runes: Storms of Magic and our set combo does this
Permanently empower runes crafted: Waystones and the Arcane Fulcrum Anvil does this

Some effects do one or more of these, but they're not interchangeable nor is it a simple power scaling.
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We already have the scent of magic energy conversions to other forms of energy, and runic energy conversions from other forms of energy so Tri's idea isn't actually absurd. Infact, @tri2 's idea is arguably supported by the Karak Dorn array, and if Snorri does anything similar to what Tri2 proposes, it's probably going to be inspired by the Karak Dorn Array that Yorri made, which happens to be powered by Geo-thermal heat.

Infact, even if Runic Amplification doesn't actually tap into the Aqshy, Chamon and Hysh around the Khazagar, Flamedrinking actually does what he asks - just contain all the heat energy under an inverted magical shield and tons of insulation, runic and mundane, as we have many sources of creating, perpetuating and boosting heat from ambient magic, and mundane processes within the Khazgar.

Really the battery idea is very doable. Just find a way to store excess heat energy from purification and all of the other thermal processes occurring in the Khazagar and invent Flamedirnking.
 
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An alternative plan, as I don't think a talismanic rune of siphoning will do anything useful that we can't do better by simply using banners with the rune, and I think it's a wasted opportunity not to compress Guardian's Rebuke and use that to make a superior version of the talisman

[] Plan: Even More Spiteful
- [] Waywarding: [Cost: 1 retainer action]
- [] The Throng is Mustered: [Cost: 1 retainer action]
- [] Drakk Rearing [Cost: 1 heir action + 1 retainer action]
- [] [Simple] Re-warding Work: [Cost: 2 heir actions]
- [] March [Cost: 1 action]
- [] Prod for Prod: [Cost: 1 action] Gain 2 +1d3 Yorri prods
- [] Understand the Master Rune of Challenge
- [] Compress A Guardian's Rebuke Combo: [Cost: Free]
- [] [Difficult] Write In - A Furious Rebuke Pt. 1: Newly Compressed Master Rune of Guardian's Rebuke ([Tier 4] Elder Stonehorn Eye) , Rune of Grudges ([Tier 4] Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Brain), Rune of Fury ([Tier 4] Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Heart). The furious rebuke of a dwarven elder to a hated enemy who has dared strike them. [Cost: 1 action]
- [] [Difficult] Write In - A Furious Rebuke Pt. 2: [Cost: 2 actions]
- [] [Difficult] The Movement of Things Pt. 6b, The Body
-- [] Prod Yorri: [Cost: all the Yorri prods we have]
- [] [Simple] Frostbird's Feather: [Cost: 1 research action]
- [] Order
--[] Order: T4 Voidstone

On the ingredients for A Furious Rebuke. Dragon ogres never forget, particularly not a slight, just like dwarves never forget a grudge. They also frenzy when exposed to the right stimulus, in their case lightning.

Dark as Silver said:
If we adapted Empowerment to be an structural rune. Would that be what you're describing. Sounds like we're just nitpicking over whether this is the next on the tech tree or equivalent level.
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That doesn't make sense at all. The Rune of Empowerment is the opposite of a battery. It causes gronti and prosthetics to over-clock and so run down their internal batteries/capacitors faster and need to recharge afterwards (the period of weakness). A structural version would presumably allow all you to do the same to all gronti/prosthetic inside the structure.

What I'm proposing does something completely different. It gives an extra charge to runic items that can run out of power and need to be recharged. It's almost completely unrelated to the Rune of Empowerment.

Andmeuths said:
We already have the scent of magic energy conversions to other forms of energy, and runic energy conversions from other forms of energy so Tri's idea isn't actually absurd. Infact, @tri2 's idea is arguably supported by the Karak Dorn array, and if Snorri does anything similar to what Tri2 proposes, it's probably going to be inspired by the Karak Dorn Array that Yorri made, which happens to be powered by Geo-thermal heat.

Infact, even if Runic Amplification doesn't actually tap into the Aqshy, Chamon and Hysh around the Khazagar, Flamedrinking actually does what he asks - just contain all the heat energy under an inverted magical shield and tons of insulation, runic and mundane, as we have many sources of creating, perpetuating and boosting from ambient magic alone.
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The concept of converting other forms of energy isn't absurd. It's just that strengthening runecasting is different to temporarily strengthening already existing runes, which is different again to upgrading runecrafting to make permanently more powerful runes.

Runic Amplifcation producing stronger runecasting leads does not mean it leads to stronger runecrafting, or that it leads to being able to recharge runes faster. They may be qualitatively rather than quantitatively different kinds of effects.

I don't think we've any particular evidence of which 'kind' of runic energy a Rune of Flamedrinking produces. It could very easily be like Runic Amplification, in that it strengthens rune casting alone, not the other three things it could o.
 
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Alratan said:
That doesn't make sense at all. The Rune of Empowerment is the opposite of a battery. It causes gronti and prosthetics to over-clock and so run down their internal batteries/capacitors faster and need to recharge afterwards (the period of weakness). A structural version would presumably allow all you to do the same to all gronti/prosthetic inside the structure.

What I'm proposing does something completely different. It gives an extra charge to runic items that can run out of power and need to be recharged. It's almost completely unrelated to the Rune of Empowerment.
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Okay, so it seems to me that the issue between us is that I interpret the grontis overclocking to be coming from an additional power influx from the Rune of Empowerment and the slow down is due to needing to refill afterwards so the Waking isn't able to get its actual requirements. Which is why I think you're just describing a more generic Empowerment.
Whereas you just think Waking has excess power reserves it doesn't use or only uses when power intake is low.
Guess this is an issue that only soulcake can answer and we'll have to research.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Okay, so it seems to me that the issue between us is that I interpret the grontis overclocking to be coming from an additional power influx from the Rune of Empowerment and the slow down is due to needing to refill afterwards so the Waking isn't able to get its actual requirements. Which is why I think you're just describing a more generic Empowerment.
Whereas you just think Waking has excess power reserves it doesn't use or only uses when power intake is low.
Guess this is an issue that only soulcake can answer and we'll have to research.
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My view is that if it worked as you suggest the gronti wouldn't have a period of weakness afterwards. It would just return to its normal strength prior to the Rune of Empowerment being used rather than being weaker than it was originally. The weakness tells me that something in the Master Rune of Awakening is being depleted and needs to recharge.

And the Rune of Empowerment is a very specific effect that makes gronti and prosthetics physically stronger. As gronti and prosthetics use a different power source to regular Winds it doesn't seem like something that would easily generalise to other runes even if it did somehow work as you suggest.

Note I'm not proposing a generic Rune that overclocks other runes, which a generic Rune of Empowerment might be. I'm proposing something that gives items that need to charge up an extra charge. That's not what Empowerment does, even for a hypothetical gronti or prosthetic that required charging up before activating, such as a prosthetic with the Master Rune of Expurgation.
 
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Alratan said:
An alternative plan, as I don't think a talismanic rune of siphoning will do anything useful that we can't do better by simply using banners with the rune, and I think it's a wasted opportunity not to compress Guardian's Rebuke and use that to make a superior version of the talisman

[X] Plan: Even More Spiteful
- [X] Waywarding: [Cost: 1 retainer action]
- [X] The Throng is Mustered: [Cost: 1 retainer action]
- [X] Drakk Rearing [Cost: 1 heir action + 1 retainer action]
- [X] [Simple] Re-warding Work: [Cost: 2 heir actions]
- [X] March [Cost: 1 action]
- [X] Prod for Prod: [Cost: 1 action] Gain 2 +1d3 Yorri prods
- [X] Understand the Master Rune of Challenge
- [X] Compress A Guardian's Rebuke Combo: [Cost: Free]
- [X] [Difficult] Write In - A Furious Rebuke Pt. 1: Newly Compressed Master Rune of Guardian's Rebuke ([Tier 4] Elder Stonehorn Eye) , Rune of Grudges ([Tier 4] Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Brain), Rune of Fury ([Tier 4] Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Heart) [Cost: 1 action]
- [X] [Difficult] Write In - A Furious Rebuke Pt. 2: [Cost: 2 actions]
- [X] [Difficult] The Movement of Things Pt. 6b, The Body
-- [X] Prod Yorri: [Cost: all the Yorri prods we have]
- [X] [Simple] Frostbird's Feather: [Cost: 1 research action]
- [X] Order
--[X] Order: T4 Voidstone

On the ingredients for A Furious Rebuke. Dragon ogres never forget, particularly not a slight, just like dwarves never forget a grudge. They also frenzy when exposed to the right stimulus, in their case lightning.
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You should probably remove the crosses, voting isn't open.

E: You should also add the description of the effect and flavor to the write-in combo.
 
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Re Izril and Brynduraz: I do think people underestimate the runiversities these two holds will build.

They are two ancient and rich Holds with a strong runesmithing tradition. I don't doubt they will build something sweet.
 
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