I honestly don't understand the objections to any of what's been suggested. We have no idea what Fukushima actually values, having never even spoken to them. Akiko is demanding 20 seeds at best, which is her expenses in hiring them. If she can recover the 20 seeds from Fukushima because of our services, then we've done our job. We didn't offer to mediate things we Ishinomaki and we never even asked about what Akiko wanted from there. We can verify if they're lying to us about external threats and even IF they lied to us about them LATER, offering NOW is worth doing if it ends the war. And this 'ready' BS re:empty seeds is just that.
Didn't our empty seed absorb grief from nearby seeds? If so, that shit ain't ready for prime time, because we don't know everything about how they'll react. All the other SCIENCE! stuff we've been doing can't work as a bargaining chip either, since we haven't gotten to a place where we can actually do anything with it.

So far as just paying her? For one, at this point she'll probably raise her prices since we went and pissed her off, and for another, it leaves us with only sour relationships. Sendai won't respect us, ishanomaki won't be happy we caved, and the UG will definitely dislike us because we gave in to the demands of someone who ruined their lives and (essentially) starved people. Paying her off is probably the worst way to resolve this short of just killing Sendai and Fukushima.
 
I mean, it's not like there's a mountain of things. We could offer to accompany her to hunt down thirty grief seeds in the wild. We could witchbomb her subtly and see if she has psychoses related to that particular subject. We could attempt to contact Fukushima privately (Homura can connect us if we have to) and try to outbid Akiko, while stalling her and taking her attention with other matters. We could reveal what we did to Ishinomaki and try to get her to think twice about messing with someone who took down the party she's been at war with for two years in less than a minute.

I just don't understand why we're trying the same shit we've tried the last two, three updates with no effect.




So far as just paying her? For one, at this point she'll probably raise her prices since we went and pissed her off, and for another, it leaves us with only sour relationships. Sendai won't respect us, ishanomaki won't be happy we caved, and the UG will definitely dislike us because we gave in to the demands of someone who ruined their lives and (essentially) starved people. Paying her off is probably the worst way to resolve this short of just killing Sendai and Fukushima.

Did you read what I wrote? I'm saying Akiko is paying Fukushima 20 seeds. If she doesn't have to pay Fukushima those 20 seeds that she already possesses, she isn't going to demand the 20 seeds from the UG.
 
Didn't our empty seed absorb grief from nearby seeds?

No, it (as a nearly empty seed) dumped grief into nearby seeds, the way a soul gem would. This caused Aurora (the other seed we had in the same pocket) to nearly overload/hatch. That was what started it all (previously the 'empty seed' experiment was just a way to get a seed that could be used for longer). At least that's how I remember it.
 
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I honestly don't understand the objections to any of what's been suggested. We have no idea what Fukushima actually values, having never even spoken to them. Akiko is demanding 20 seeds at best, which is her expenses in hiring them. If she can recover the 20 seeds from Fukushima because of our services, then we've done our job.

20 seeds at least. Not at best. Up to now, Fukushima doesn't exactly have a reason to hold onto used seeds so it's quite unlikely they have that many on them that can be refreshed.

We didn't offer to mediate things we Ishinomaki and we never even asked about what Akiko wanted from there.

Implied, but no we didn't spell it out. And we did ask Akiko what she wanted. We got stone walled.

We can verify if they're lying to us about external threats and even IF they lied to us about them LATER, offering NOW is worth doing if it ends the war.

Sorry. No. This is not something I'm inclined to entertain. Even if we're only paying lip service to it. It's glorified stalling that hurt's our reputation and can undo any agreements we have with Sendai once we get called out on it.

And this 'ready' BS re:empty seeds is just that.

It's not. Beyond maybe the first, it's not something we are ready to prepare in mass or even just a handful. And the seeds 'do' need to be looked at. If you can't accept that, there's nothing I can say that's going to change your mind anyway.
 
The seed was emptied, and then had the grief stuffed back into it. Later, it was found that a seed that hadn't been tampered with was taking the grief from the seed that was; though it's not known if this was the untampered seed soaking in 'loose' grief, or if the tampered seed was actively pushing the stuff out.


As for trying to deal with Akiko's underlying issues, there are a lot of things I could say, but won't. I will say, however, that it's still probably not too late, assuming Akiko's currently just haggling with the Fukushima group over their own consultation fee*. And to be blunt, something about them is going to be needed to be done, because without dealing with them in some fashion she's not going to abide by Ishinomaki's terms.


*I think, I've completely forgotten what the current leading vote is.


Anyways, on the seed emptying thing, you can simply show it to her as an example of something you're working on, but isn't ready yet because it will require further observation and testing to make sure there's no long term side effects; as well as the fact you need to figure out what to do with the massive amounts of grief the process leaves hanging around, and you can't work on that if you're constantly running around putting out fires. One of the reasons you want peace is so that you can actually take some time to work out long-term solutions that don't require your immediate presence.
 
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20 seeds at least. Not at best. Up to now, Fukushima doesn't exactly have a reason to hold onto used seeds so it's quite unlikely they have that many on them that can be refreshed.

In the best case she asks for 20. In worse cases, she wants more. But semantics aside, Fukushima would have to be Akiko-level nuts to not see the value in cleansing seeds they'll own in the future, too.



Implied, but no we didn't spell it out. And we did ask Akiko what she wanted. We got stone walled.

Barely an implication at all. I certainly didn't pick up on it until what must be at least the forth re-read. We didn't even mention what she was looking for in Ishinomaki. Sakura dumped it on us as confirmation that there was something, but all we asked earlier was "But I need to know your reasons. What are you trying to accomplish? What's your goal? Grief Seeds are a means, not an end."



Sorry. No. This is not something I'm inclined to entertain. Even if we're only paying lip service to it. It's glorified stalling that hurt's our reputation and can undo any agreements we have with Sendai once we get called out on it.

We can stipulate the conditions under which we're willing to help them. Then we can verify those stipulations are met if they try to draw on us.
 
In the best case she asks for 20. In worse cases, she wants more. But semantics aside, Fukushima would have to be Akiko-level nuts to not see the value in cleansing seeds they'll own in the future, too.

Regardless, this is doable. I said it earlier. I just doubted how much value Akiko would put in such an offer. Ultimately we need her to end the extortion. Refreshing a few grief seeds is not going to go very far in our primary goal.

Barely an implication at all. I certainly didn't pick up on it until what must be at least the forth re-read. We didn't even mention what she was looking for in Ishinomaki. Sakura dumped it on us as confirmation that there was something, but all we asked earlier was "But I need to know your reasons. What are you trying to accomplish? What's your goal? Grief Seeds are a means, not an end."

Assuming she wasn't just scouting, point. Those other questions however are valid. We got stone walled.

We can stipulate the conditions under which we're willing to help them. Then we can verify those stipulations are met if they try to draw on us.

We would have to investigate, every freaking call. That's not realistic. Like at all.
 
@Firnagzen

If it's not too much trouble. Synch does have some points so if you haven't written too much of the next update yet, I'd like to make some additions to my vote.
 
Regardless, this is doable. I said it earlier. I just doubted how much value Akiko would put in such an offer. Ultimately we need her to end the extortion. Refreshing a few grief seeds is not going to go very far in our primary goal.

All I'm hearing is an excuse not to bother, then?

Assuming she wasn't just scouting, point. Those other questions however are valid. We got stone walled.

But the questions were asked outside of context of Ishinomaki. The questions were regarding why she wants grief seeds. So no, we never asked, not in a way that invites the actual answer.


We would have to investigate, every freaking call. That's not realistic. Like at all.

We would have to Oriko every call. We can do that from our couch.








Anyway, I'm heading to bed. Consider my ranting today my "I told you so" for later, I guess. Sorry that I've been in a bad mood.
 
Go ahead.

Also, I just realized something. Akiko. Oriko.

Coincidence? I THINK NOT. Totally is. Or is it?
Note to self: next time we meet anyone with a name ending in "iko", kick her ass the second you get the chance- saves you a lot of trouble.
We would have to Oriko every call. We can do that from our couch.
Oriko is not a perfect precog. Checking whether or not someone lied to us using her is untenable in the long term.
 
[x] Telepathy the UG that if Akiko does break negotiations, then we're enough to shut down any violence. Aside from what the UG brings to the table, Mami's one of the strongest and most talented magical girls alive, Kirika's full of nasty surprises, and we can and will yank away soul gems if we have to. They don't need to burn favours bringing in more help, and we'd really like to avoid the situation escalating further.
[x] Spoken out loud: For now we don't actually know that Akiko's going to start anything. She's dropped out of contact after going to meet a party she'd hired for combat, which is certainly suspicious and something to be concerned about, but there could be an innocent explanation. Her not being able to focus on two conversations at once, for example.
[x] Telepathy Rin. Ask her to hold on for just a moment.
[x] Telepathy Akiko. It occured to you that you're maybe going about this the wrong way.
-[x] Regarding Fukushima, you would like to offer your grief cleansing to them if it would aid in lowering her costs.
-[x] Also you forgot to mention it. We spoke to Ishinomaki asking an end to the hostilities. They told me they would stop fighting you if stop attacking them.
--[x] Regarding Ishinomaki. Was there anything specific you were looking for over there? If it's nothing too objectionable, we may be able to help.
-[x] In the end I'm looking for a way for both you and the University group to be able to coexist in the same city. They can't afford your tax. Is there any kind of alternative arrangement we can come up with that doesn't involve a cost in grief seeds?


So... we have some more appeals to go through. To the point, this is going to need another vote before endgame.
 
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[x] Muramasa

There is nothing wrong with your vote per say, but we are starting to drift dangerously close to the point where we are going to start nitpicking over semantics again. For the sakes of our sanity, let's not go back there again.
 
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