"Who are you, and what have you done to Homura!"
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Shaved down some, in the spirit of "points, not phrasing":
[X] How do you approach telling Momoe Shin?
- [X] Magic is real.
- [X] Aliens are real and they're douchebags
- [X] Aliens give girls wishes to make them magical girls
-- [] Nagisa should be one of those girls, but Kyubey hasn't approached her. We're not sure why.
- [X] Magic comes from the soul, and creates Grief there. Feeling bad also creates Grief. Grief causes feeling bad.
-- [X] Grief can be removed with grief seeds or Sabrina
-- [X] Grief seeds can be acquired by hunting witches or robbing other magical girls
- [X] On Saturday, we noticed the world's most notorious raiders spying on us, and had a small window to follow their magic back and arrest them
- [X] We took the opportunity to form Constellation
-- [] Side note, Nakano Mika is a member, and is the one who spotted Iowa
[X] Don't have Nagisa around. A lot of this is really heavy, and the light parts risk painting Shin into a corner by telling Nagisa that her big sis is a superhero.
[X] How do you approach telling Momoe Shin?
- [X] Magic is real.
- [X] Aliens are real and they're douchebags
- [X] Aliens give girls wishes to make them magical girls
-- [] Nagisa should be one of those girls, but Kyubey hasn't approached her. We're not sure why.
- [X] Magic comes from the soul, and creates Grief there. Feeling bad also creates Grief. Grief causes feeling bad.
-- [X] Grief can be removed with grief seeds or Sabrina
-- [X] Grief seeds can be acquired by hunting witches or robbing other magical girls
- [X] On Saturday, we noticed the world's most notorious raiders spying on us, and had a small window to follow their magic back and arrest them
- [X] We took the opportunity to form Constellation
-- [] Side note, Nakano Mika is a member, and is the one who spotted Iowa
[X] Don't have Nagisa around. A lot of this is really heavy, and the light parts risk painting Shin into a corner by telling Nagisa that her big sis is a superhero.
This is confusing to me. If we're planning on telling him the witchbomb, the conversation flows much better if we just do that from the start.
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Kebabulon
The Moon From Robot 64
You right. I didn't know where to put the witchbomb or infohazard warning and still have it flow well in my vote, but I probably should've moved the infohazard warning up a few spots instead of tacked on at the end. Still think it's a good idea to tell him the witchbomb. Just don't know how to do that except near the end or after dinner though.
...Maybe we could use the privacy bracelet?
[X] Torgamous
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[] Magic comes from the soul, and creates Grief there. Feeling bad also creates Grief. Grief causes feeling bad. Too much grief turns the girl into a witch.
Kebabulon
The Moon From Robot 64
Oh, I was under the impression we were bringing Mami along. This confusion makes a whole lot more sense now.
...ima reread the whole thing to test my reading comprehension k brb in a couple weeks
JuliusClonkus
Scatterbrained Speculator
- Location
- Federal Reichspublic of Karlsland
Yep. If Mami's not around, this should definitely be included in the explanation.
[X] Torgamous
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I was under the impression that leading with telling Mami that we're talking about infohazards was meant to get her to not come along.
Kebabulon
The Moon From Robot 64
Miscommunication! How fun!
Maybe telling Mami and letting her choose if she wants to come? I'm fine with either, it just affects how and when we do the witchbomb.
JuliusClonkus
Scatterbrained Speculator
- Location
- Federal Reichspublic of Karlsland
Given that Sabrina has only recently (Anri) demonstrated that she's learning how to Social independently of voting plans so as to not accidentally everything, I'm not worried that Firn's just going to make Sabrina blatantly witchbomb Mami because of a carelessly phrased vote.
If circumstances align such that Mami is present, Sabrina won't raise that specific issue, ask Mami to step out for a moment or pass it forward later.
If circumstances align such that Mami is present, Sabrina won't raise that specific issue, ask Mami to step out for a moment or pass it forward later.
[X] Torgamous
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm having second thoughts about this. Yes, it's something Shin needs to know (assuming Nagisa has enough potential to contract here, which I'm not sure has been confirmed), but it's a pretty big thing to slip into a different conversation.
JuliusClonkus
Scatterbrained Speculator
- Location
- Federal Reichspublic of Karlsland
...maybe move the bulk of the magical girl breakdown including the Nagisa-relevant stuff towards the tail end of the conversation?
As to whether she has the potential - a good point, actually, but IIRC the anime likens it to karmic weight or something, which always sounded to me like the girls with potential are also the ones who would become important to the world down the line? It's how Madoka canonically ballooned to ridiculous power since the entire world being able to move past this month hinged entirely on her contract-free survival.
I don't think anything has changed that would diminish Nagisa's 'potential', under that interpretation. If anything, I'm more surprised we haven't accidentally 'infected' anyone with an unexpected increase in potential. I hope.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The bulk of the breakdown builds on previous points to fully explain what happened, how, and why. It's just the mention of Nagisa's potential that risks a derail.
And yeah, I know all that, but there is presumably a reason that Kyubey didn't contract her before her mom died like it usually does, nor has it tried since. We didn't even meet her until after she would've normally been contracted, and I can't find anything confirming Nagisa's potential status.
ExploerTM
Ruin has found you at last!
- Location
- Russia, Perm
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I am a bit out of the loop, are we sugarcoating things to him or?.. Because Iowa more of straight up international terrorists.
Either way looks fine for the first conversation?
[X] Torgamous
If stupid ideas are allowed we could grab one of the terminals by its tail and dangle it in front of Nagisa and ask if she sees something. Can repeat experiment with Hitomi or hell even Shin to confirm whether or not canon rule of "Only potentials see Kyubey" applies here.
[X] Torgamous
Solarstream
It's all in the cards
- Location
- Zombie World
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Torgamous
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
1. Points, not phrasing.
2. Not really. Terrorism is generally understood to have to be in service of a broader political goal. Their only goal is mugging people for grief seeds. They're more accurately called pirates.
3. Edited to call them pirates.
I could've sworn that megucas could canonically sense whether someone has potential or not, from a comment Mami made to Homura in the first few episodes about sensing Madoka's potential. Then again, it has been two or so years since I watched PMMM, and I can't check, so I could be wrong
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Not only can meguca sense potential but Sabrina specifically can sense it at range as an extension of grief sensing
ExploerTM
Ruin has found you at last!
- Location
- Russia, Perm
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Is that how we stumbled upon Nagisa in the first place? Thats been soooo long...
I still think it kinda undersells how serious their threat was but I guess Sabrina will convey it more properly. They were holding a city hostage basically. Pirates could hold hostage a cruise liner and it still wouldn't be even in the same ballpark threat wise.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Terrorists don't hold cities hostage either, dude. Only states do that. At least in real life, but if you're gonna get into 24 or Call of Duty or whatever then you also have to acknowledge that the first thing the Black Pearl does besides looming ominously is attack a city.
ExploerTM
Ruin has found you at last!
- Location
- Russia, Perm
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Terrorists is closest comparison to get point across how dangerous they are. Normal people dont think in "Technically correct terms". When people imagine pirates they imagine people taking out boats. When people imagine terrorists they imagine people blowing up buildings. Guess which more correctly describes threat Iowa represented?
We dont want to lecture Shin on differences between pirates, robbers and terrorists. We want to tell him we had to bail to take out a bunch of dipshits threating to start blowing up a city.
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- Location
- Washington, USA
We also don't want to be throwing around baseless hyperbole, or unforced errors on the legal technicalities, if we're going to immediately follow up with talk about building a judicial system from scratch. Piracy isn't a "comparison," it's literally how that sort of non-state-backed opportunistic violence gets formally classified in international law.
Exact magnitude of the threat isn't the most relevant aspect here. More important part is restoring Shin's trust in our judgement, and the way to do so is with independently-verifiable evidence to show that what Sabrina did - that is, running off to Myanmar to fight a flying battleship full of magical pirates on short notice - was actually the right thing to do purely in terms of Nagisa's safety. Further, that we made those key decisions for the right reasons, rather than chasing delusions of grandeur and getting lucky.
If a bunch of violent criminals had shown up directly at the mall with no warning, our job (as far as Shin is concerned) would not have been to defeat them - it would be to get Nagisa out of that situation, unharmed. Absent magic, the obvious solution would be running away while carrying her with one hand, calling police with the other, and any more complicated plan needs to be carefully justified in terms of risk management. With magic, or without the option to flee, defense or de-escalation would still usually be preferable to a preemptive attack. Sabrina needs to prove:
1) Magic and miracles are real
2) and awful (this is the easy part, main risk is sharing too much)
3) the Iowa Group posed a threat to Nagisa (and the whole city, but that's less important) more serious and more urgent than anything else which could plausibly have come up in the relevant span of time
4) the Iowa Group was known, in advance, to be ruthless enough that diplomacy or static defenses were not viable
5) Constellation traveling to Myanmar and back to take them out, was not just possible, but the best option available
6) that first-strike scenario could not have safely been delayed by even a few hours
ExploerTM
Ruin has found you at last!
- Location
- Russia, Perm
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I am fairly sure how dangerous Meguca criminals can be is very much an important thing to mention. Shin is also a human being, not an AI, no scratch that, not a computer where you have to be precise with the input to correctly convey situation. If you throw around word "felony" not many - if any - people would instantly jump to murder, treason or child abuse despite all of those being felonies.
I am not arguing literally anything else and I am not sure why you think I am.
JuliusClonkus
Scatterbrained Speculator
- Location
- Federal Reichspublic of Karlsland
The Iowa group were bandits. Raiders. Marauders. They came in, stole everything of value, forced other Magical Girls to essentially work themselves to death, set the places they visit on fire and then fucked off on their giant ship.
Don't look for modern terms to describe a modus operandi that fits much better into the middle ages.
If you want to get the point across what they were like, compare them to the popular image of Mongols, Huns or Vikings descending on a helpless town. Bar the magic and visuals of a WW2 warship, it's the most accurate.
Don't look for modern terms to describe a modus operandi that fits much better into the middle ages.
If you want to get the point across what they were like, compare them to the popular image of Mongols, Huns or Vikings descending on a helpless town. Bar the magic and visuals of a WW2 warship, it's the most accurate.
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