That isn't part of the definition.
A bit different but raiseth does have the right idea
Difference in the most basic sense is that tulpas == purposefully created and cultivated over periods of time

Alters == just kind of crop up over time without being purposefully created

But that's sort of getting off topic from the thread
Main point is that I don't think that the soujo sisters special brand of insanity is tied into their sharing a body and more just how they are, they likely decided to share a body due to being unhinged
Its likely that at one point one of them got body killed in a way that the body couldn't easily be recovered (one of their victims had a power they didn't expect maybe?) and so they just decided to ditch the corpse and cohabitate
 
That isn't part of the definition.

Sigh

Alright

Tulpa

Tulpa is a concept in mysticism and the paranormal of a being or object which is created through spiritual or mental powers.[1]It was adapted by 20th century theosophists from Tibetan sprul-pa (Tibetan: སྤྲུལ་པ་, Wylie: sprulpa) which means "emanation" or "manifestation".[2] Modern practitioners use the term to refer to a type of willed imaginary friend which practitioners consider to be sentient and relatively autonomous.[3]

The process of creating a tulpa is programming a part of your brain to continuously project a mental image who can act semi-independently from your conscious mind.

Basically, willingly developing a split personality associated with a preferred image that would then walk around your room and talk with you

But that's sort of getting off topic from the thread
Main point is that I don't think that the soujo sisters special brand of insanity is tied into their sharing a body and more just how they are, they likely decided to share a body due to being unhinged
Its likely that at one point one of them got body killed in a way that the body couldn't easily be recovered (one of their victims had a power they didn't expect maybe?) and so they just decided to ditch the corpse and cohabitate

Ah, I just raised it as a possibility, cuz Airi displays syndromes of manic depression, so I kinda thought that maybe making a body very similar to her own might destabilize her further
I'm not really sure about that, though
 
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Funny that the thread should start talking about tulpas less than two weeks after I'd privately started referring to specific sorts of grief-clones as tulpas.
 
Sigh

Alright

Tulpa



The process of creating a tulpa is programming a part of your brain to continuously project a mental image who can act semi-independently from your conscious mind.

Basically, willingly developing a split personality associated with a preferred image that would then walk around your room and talk with you



Ah, I just raised it as a possibility, cuz Airi displays syndromes of manic depression, so I kinda thought that maybe making a body very similar to her own might destabilize her further
I'm not really sure about that, though
Would you differentiate between "Anri has manic depression" evidence vs. "Anri is overusing displacement and rage as defenses" evidence? What I get from the reading is more like a chaotic, roiling series of reactions she's having right after her reality went irrational, and her emotions went off the scale.


I think she was "baseline" too recently for a regular sort of manic-depression?
Also, she should not be settled into any particular stable worldview yet. I am seeing a girl who tried to embrace the revenge that blocked her grieving, and build a new self around it. Of course, that is a very short life story if she got her way. Make the analogy to getting that name tattooed while drunk, and waking with regret.
Now, she's in flux. Abandoning her humanity didn't do much. She has lost her power. And she has lost her "truth." Revenge was a bust. Nothing is going in any way that makes sense - only for everything to come to a screeching halt in the jail cell.

Rather than anticipating, would we be helping her, and us, by learning more specifics? Even though she "doesn't want to share," we can use two other paths. Ask her, and reward her for personal conversation. Keep that up until there is an opening.
Or talk more cleverly about other things, and use our wits to indirectly learn more.

We need the NPC backup to provide this many therapy hours. If we break ground in a way that allows them to easily pick up her case, we win. Map the minefield for the support specialist, the one who doesn't have our special advantages when it comes to Magical Girls.

If we learn the right things, brokering enough rehabilitation to satisfy us is easier - AND we immeasurably improve her future. Kyuubey chose both the girls as "feeder stock." Not getting some improvement in her coping skills will result in a short ride to the Witch side of town, and if we brought Yuuri back before then, she'd be involved too. It will require a little bumping of heads until we teach her to live. Totally worth it.
If we think a situation is likely to attract her "over the edge," the best answer was always firm direction ahead of time.


As her "first responder" and dominant primate figure, we can imprint reactions that will stick.
In specific, making a copy of her body is something we should work up to. I think if we have her do it in a strictly mundane way, and talk about her feelings as she does self-portraits, we can avoid problems and even create benefits. When we have cleaned up her emotions, working with Magic has to be easier. If we walk her away from the brink of destruction, maybe her morals will re-appear. Her villainous actions might be something we can un-train, as they were not very persistent, even if very large. Until then, we should seek enough control to prevent harm.

In this vein, our uncertainty is much less in regards to girls like the Iowa Group. The way we handle them is probably going to be more like any consensus authority would, not because we like it, but because they have invited that sort of attention. Given the commitment they have made to predation, any risk is theirs to suffer, and our first choice to prevent harm is permanent removal of the magic of any of them we catch alive. Not certain how that works, but risking the lives of the future should a confirmed killer repeat is preventable. We can figure out how they can live and be changed, or spend life in institutional confinement, once we know the rest of humanity is safe.
 
Okay, take two:

[] First, it takes a week of activity and just plain time for seeds to resume awareness after being cleared. Emphasize that this shouldn't and probably can't be accelerated by brute force.
[] Beyond that, does she mean she wants something more than this to do or get? Hear her out.
-[] If she wants to run her own experiments, you'd advise sanity checking her ideas with someone else and having a spotter. Emphasize the importance and necessity of taking proper precautions to avoid death by lab accident.
--[] You could suggest looking into the magic that connects the soul gem to the body, given her powers.
[] We'll be in Fukushima at least once a week and can share our own results, if she wants them.

Potential thought for the Fukushima girls talk:

[] For what it's worth, you have your own regrets with how you handled the fight in Sendai. You did your own part in scaring them shitless and you do wish you'd been kinder.

The real issue with that is that I doubt her power will be more effective than the combined powers of the Pleiades when it comes to re-embodiment, and asking her to work with them is... iffy.
Well that is a question of whether she's still on speaking terms with Hijiri. :p
 
Well that is a question of whether she's still on speaking terms with Hijiri. :p
Ah damn
That's another thing

How the hell are we going to fix things with Hijiri, cause I don't like the fact that she's out there all on her own trying to "get revenge" on the Pleiades
Like, I totally get her mindset and thought process and the worry that she's not real and just some science experiment
But there needs to be some way to help her that doesn't involve anybody dying

Our last interaction with her was a complete flop
 
Yes, leaving Hijiri in this manner isn't going to be well. We should choose actions to recover.

For now... a proposal

[X] Anri:
-[X] Welcome to our De-Witching Science Club, Lab Member Number 5!
-[X] Faster approaches are less likely to work and more likely to break Yuuri's soul.
-[X] Sabrina asks Anri to also try to help herself.
--[X] Keep a journal, write out a list of affirmations.
-[X] Yuuri needs hope.
--[X] Try to become effective enough to make Yuuri's restoration happen faster, by learning.
--[X] Meditation is going to help, you can do that here.
--[X] Healing others would bring an even better way to focus on memories Yuuri would take up.
-[X] Learn sculpture. Start with clay, before we get to practicing with magic.
--[X] Yuuri lost her body, we will learn how to make her a new one.
--[X] Anri can do it with us. The technique doesn't exist yet.
-[X] She can try communicating with the core of the seed to possibly help the process along. It might not work, but either way it should be harmless.
-[X] Right now, your next step is figuring out how to make contact with Aurora, your main experiment.
--[X] It took a week of being used for cleansing to make Aurora active again. It may just require waiting.
-[X] As far as problems, you have a feeling Magic comes from emotion and who you are. Depression would interfere.
-[X] Take her hand

[X] Yuki and her group:
-[X] Have her team recount their feelings about joining our team.
--[X] Personal attention for each, listen to their motivations.
-[X] Homura's progress finding a house for Yuki to claim.
-[X] Discuss the desired outcome for Tokyo. Find a united front to bring them to the meeting with us.
-[X] Mention offer of ties to Asunaro.
-[X] Ask about the Soujus, seek counsel regarding defensive strategies.
--[X] Body Fabrication, and how to establish another facility
-[X] Get any intel related to Iowa. Request aid for a strike.
-[X] The Murasaki Shrine Maidens.
-[X] Trustworthy magical girls with empathy/therapy powers.

 
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Okay, sorry for not responding to this sooner, this week has been... Interesting.

Um.

I do have to say, that conversation went extremely well, although it did end up in much the way I had kind of feared -- leaving things closed-ended instead of open-ended for her role caused her to react against being "menial labor." It doesn't fit the protagonist self-image she's got.

I'd sort of hoped to leave things on a more open ended note -- something more like, eh, "here's an idea on where to start looking at this" rather than "please do this." But... Admittedly I'm not sure we want Airi approaching this open-ended.

She's also missing some important pieces as far as dewitching goes -- for instance, "we're immortal" becomes really important when you're talking to the girl who doesn't want to be old and dying by the time she dewitches her SO. We're talking to a teenager; they already naturally view a month as being a really damn long time.

Also the stakes, potentially. "Yeah it's eternal torment if you fuck up, for you and for her" is a pretty big part of why we don't go around trying, you know, more Interesting approaches to dewitching.

Also, nobody has told her that dewitching goes to shit all the time.

Take all that missing information, add the protagonist mindset on top... it's no surprise that she reacts the way she does.

I've got a vote mostly written, but I need to know something -- do we want Airi moving more or less towards "let's consider other ways to approach this problem than trying what Sabrina is giving me"?

In either case, a lot of what needs to be said leads towards "don't rush about this", but... the former -- implying more leeway + freedom for Airi about thinking about how to approach dewitching -- definitely makes Airi happier with us, but on the flip side...

...

Idk. Thoughts?
 
[Q] You may denigrate me, but don't you dare denigrate SCIENCE!
-[Q] Tell Airi that you thoroughly enjoy the heartpounding romantic friendship thingy she has with Yuuri, but no one enjoys tsundere characters who only show their tsun side without showing their dere.
-[Q] More or less, from what you told her, it takes time and dedication. You have the dedication, but dear Madokami don't you have the time. So she should do her best in your stead!~
-[Q] From now on, you're counting on your cute new kouhai. ( note to self: absolutely don't tell her you are two weeks and change old and basically everyone's kouhai )
[Q] Yuki and Friends
-[Q] You totally want to hear the story of how Shinobu got to know them. You are pretty sure it didn't in fact involve any summoning rituals or mountains wink wink nudge nudge.
-[Q] Has anyone heard about Iowa gals? They are trying to scrape by and earn enough money for a battleship by raiding other Gucas. You want to introduce them to a girl who has a ship (fleet ) worth of weaponry in her hammerspace.
-[Q] You know that totally cliche story when you tell your sister that you love your sister ( platonically ) more than anything and want to spend the rest of the days with her and then you decide to ditch the second body and cohabitate in one, throwing a Japan-wide Soul Gem hunting trip in the bargain? Yeah. Two fans of that bothersome setting are going to visit in a couple of weeks.
-[Q] Ask Homura whether she found a building suitable enough you could uproot it and throw at Walpurgisnacht in a pitch.
-[Q] Ask them them if they ever heard of Madokami, our lord and savior. She will have died for our sins, you know. But well, when the devil archetype of your religion romances the god archetype, things get a little weird... ( you swear you have the third movie on Blu-Ray somewhere )
-[Q] You want to organize a coobie long-distance punting competition. Ask for volunteers. Kyubey is a volunteer automatically, you don't need to ask him.

I asked myself what I would get when Sabrina is anime and this is the result

E: thanks again, Redshirt Army
 
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[X] To be blunt, maybe.
-[X] There's four pieces she's missing here:
--[X] First, us, her, Yuuri -- we're all bloody immortal, until and unless we do something stupid enough that we get killed. Aging is subject to treatment by the basic healing magic accessible to all magical girls.
--[X] Second, what's at stake is so much more than she's recognizing. Kyubey's motivation in this is the generation of energy from the emotion of grief. If he gets ahold of Yuuri, and he will if this all goes to shit because that is what he has been doing for at least the last several millennia, it's eternal suffering as a human grief production plant for her.
--[X] Third, dewitching attempts have been going entirely to shit one hundred percent of the time since before the dawn of history, in graphically messy ways.
--[X] Fourth, of course, is how you mean to approach all of this. She's not the only person who you'd like to have working with you on this; far from it. You're focused on consolidating, right now, constructing a power base that Kyubey can't just wreck, because none of this matters if he can just screw everyone for the umpteenth time, if he can just make Yuuri witch out again. But that power base is going to have applications above and beyond defense. Today it's you and her. But how many other people are out there who would work on this if they could? How many of them will, when you get them in a room, and give them access to infinite time, money, magic, and utter freedom to discuss possibilities and results with each other?
---[X] If this isn't solved by the time that implacable engine gets moving, then no, she won't be acting at her captors' pleasure -- more likely she'll be taking suggestions from a tremendous group of peers, testing them, making her own, etcetera. But until we stop being in a situation where maniacs from Scotland will fly in to murder us and take a torch to the chance at any of this ever happening, if she wanted something different she bloody well shouldn't have gassed a building full of civilians and demonstrated to us that she didn't care.

... More on this tomorrow!
 
We've seen how she approaches problems. Definitely less.

I do want to ask if we *have*, though. She gassed a building full of civilians, yes. I think, given the involvement of magic etc, that it would nonetheless be a good idea to double-check her intentions and whatnot, especially given that we're keeping her captive in proximity to people who were in the oppo at Sendai, which may -- depending on the particulars of the gas, mind you -- have arguably been worse.

... Do I believe a word I'm saying here? I don't think so -- but she possibly might. It's just something to consider (and also largely a note to myself lmao)
 
Uh have I voted yet

uh

[X] Kaizuki

'cause I don't like the way HeroCycle's vote calls Yuuri(?) "Lab Number Number 5". No calling people numbers, it's dehumanizing.
 
Uh have I voted yet

uh

[X] Kaizuki

'cause I don't like the way HeroCycle's vote calls Yuuri(?) "Lab Number Number 5". No calling people numbers, it's dehumanizing.

...I'm pretty sure that's a Steins;Gate reference which would mean it's very muchintended to be affectionate.

Also regardless of whether it's a reference or not it's not actually calling her a number, 'Lab Member Number Five' is more like a title.

...Relatedly, I have not yet voted.

[x] HeroCycle
 
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