Are we actually planning on going there soon?
On the subject of date spots that we can reach soon, what about Mt. Shinobu? We still need to meet the team there and gift a clear seed (which we could then cleanse after we have a lava hot spring date with Mami as payment for said hot spring visit).

I'm bringing this up since we're going to Fukushima tomorrow, and if we're already going to be there, we could ask Yuki today if she could introduce us over telepathy to set up a meeting for tomorrow?

Part of the reason I want to do this is that we would also get a lot out of bringing a Sayaclone along. She could interact with the regular Fukushima girls while we deal with [REDACTED], and she would get the chance to copy some of their powers. (This would also give us insight into how much Yuki has told her subordinates about our team/our defense pact). And after, Sayaka could help with the meet and greet at Mt. Shinobu and get the chance to copy lava powers.

Then, tomorrow after school, we could whisk Mami away to a lava hot spring date. And just to be clear, I don't mean 'beach/ hot spring fan service episode' date, I mean something like 'extracurricular igneous geology review at the lava hot spring cause we still feel a little guilty about being a bad influence' & ' "I'm not blushing that's the lava" after we make a life-sized grief statue in Mami's image in the hot spring that's doubles as a lava fountain' date.

What do you all think about this?
 
Now, if the thing we're doing with clear seeds results in Rochelles rather than restoring the original personality, I don't think anyone here would reject the adorable spider girl.
in all probability dewitching will be a very long and multistep process. there likely won't be a single trick that will "cure" witch outs. there will likely be many stages required. as far as I know the likely process would be
1) drain grief so they aren't literally drowning in bad feels
2) help them be able to feel different and complex emotions that aren't pure suffering
3) restore higher thought processing
(this is really where rochelle is at)
4) restore the original personality and memories.
5) figure out how to get them out of the barrier while still conscious
6) figure out how to restablish the connection with their human body (might need to figure how to fullmetal alchemist it if their body is gone)
7) (optional) figure out how to turn the grif sid into sool jim

(edit) also yes, we should go save the magus girls
 
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On the subject of date spots that we can reach soon, what about Mt. Shinobu? We still need to meet the team there and gift a clear seed (which we could then cleanse after we have a lava hot spring date with Mami as payment for said hot spring visit).

Mount Shinobu isn't a volcano.

The volcano is likely Mt Higashi-Azuma. (or the other close peak, of the same mountain, Azuma-Kofuji) Both are (just) within city limits and visible from Mount Shinobu.
 
Yuki lands on the roof of an old office building, cloak fluttering around her. You can immediately feel the magic saturating the entire structure, tingling against your mind in intricate webs. They wind tighter, twisting into a dense nexus within the center of the building.

"Ah," Yuki says, smirking faintly at you. "Yes, the more sensitive magical girls notice that the first time they arrive here."
Hold on. I thought that Sabrina had terrible sensitivity to magic - I distinctly remember Sayaka telling us we were practically blind. And we're not just noticing this nexus of power here, we're seeing where it is and who it's tied to and intimate details about how it's behaving about Yuki. We must be sensing something else, something other than magic that's nevertheless tightly tied to it. Power? Emotion?
 
Hold on. I thought that Sabrina had terrible sensitivity to magic - I distinctly remember Sayaka telling us we were practically blind. And we're not just noticing this nexus of power here, we're seeing where it is and who it's tied to and intimate details about how it's behaving about Yuki. We must be sensing something else, something other than magic that's nevertheless tightly tied to it. Power? Emotion?
Uh? No, you don't, but it's not especially developed, either. Around average to below average?
 
Thought I'd drop in my own vote. Maybe something like this would appeal?

[x] Answer her. That's a good part of it. Yes.
[x] Why? The short answer is Homura cares for Madoka very much and is doing the best she can to keep her safe.
[x] The long answer is complicated and involves things I can't tell you and aren't mine to tell. I was hoping one day she'd tell you herself.
[x] Homura has her reasons. They are good ones and they'll make complete sense to you once you have the context but only then.
[x] Sayaka? Be patient with her okay? Things are hard for her.

I don't know what you're on about with this crap. Anything that would breach Homura's trust in my vote is breached in Muramasa's vote.

I'm with Godwinson on this. The Muramasa vote is not really an improvement.

What do we want out if this? We want to convey that Homura is trustworthy and that her actions don't present a problem, and we want to do it without breaking confidence.

So... Let's *do it.*

[X] You can't give her a direct response to that. But.
[X] Sayaka has met a fair number of magical girls at this point, decent and not. She's heard you defend people like Oriko and offer benefit of doubt to others.
-[X] Akemi Homura is not the type of person whose actions require defending or benefit of doubt. Her moral fiber is not different from, say, Mami's -- only her concerns and experiences.
--[X] You can't make much comment on those for a variety of reasons, not least of which that you more or less promised her that you wouldn't. You can correct Sayaka's earlier assumption: Ahab was a madman motivated by revenge. Homura fights monsters to protect people who cannot or will not protect themselves.

[X] On a separate note... You can understand Chiyoda's actions, given certain assumptions. Enough that you're not massively upset with her.

So. Let's go over this.

First off, we cannot really make direct comment on Homura's "strange" interactions with Madoka. There is no good way to do that that doesn't violate Homura's trust somehow, because we discussed telling Sayaka about Homura's past and Homura's comment was that that couldn't be done because "then Madoka would know." Homura doesn't want Madoka drawn to her, as was made clear when we talked with her about Madoka's dreams, and in pairing with Homura's voiced belief that telling Sayaka = telling Madoka, at the end of the day Homura has made it clear that she doesn't want us telling Sayaka anything that would cause Madoka to want to help Homura -- e.g., "she's having a hard time."

Secondly, we still need to somehow allay Sayaka's concerns. My preferred route is to confirm Homura's moral fiber -- if Homura's not going to do anything bad to Madoka, weird is just private instead of a potential problem.

But to do that we need to explain in some fashion why Homura doesn't act like Mami as far as megucaing goes. And to that end I think there's a relatively simple solution, which is, as I am now voting, to explain that part of why Homura is fighting is to protect people who just will not protect themselves. Because at the end of the day, that really a summary of the difference in ideology between Homura and Mami -- Mami feels that the self-sacrifice of becoming a magical girl to fight evil is praiseworthy, where Homura feels that is a mistake. Both of them are willing to sacrifice of themselves to protect others, but Homura sees the choice to become a magical girl as something to protect others from, while Mami feels that it's the duty of those who are willing to make the sacrifice to protect those who are not -- Mami fights alongside those who would risk themselves in order to protect those who can't protect themselves, Homura fights alone to protect everyone from being at risk, period.

That difference should suffice to explain a lot, and what it doesn't explain we should be able to trust Sayaka not to pry at.
 
Don't really have time to look at your reasoning for that vote right now but...

That second last line... Kai was that a dig at Madoka?
 
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Not meant to be. Hrm... Let me think about that.

[X] You can't give her a direct response to that. But.
[X] Sayaka has met a fair number of magical girls at this point, decent and not. She's heard you defend people like Oriko and offer benefit of doubt to others.
-[X] Akemi Homura is not the type of person whose actions require defending or benefit of doubt. Her moral fiber is not different from, say, Mami's -- only her concerns and experiences.
--[X] You can't make much comment on those for a variety of reasons, not least of which that you more or less promised her that you wouldn't. You can correct Sayaka's earlier assumption: Ahab was a madman motivated by revenge. Homura fights monsters to protect people who cannot or will not protect themselves.
---[X] If it seems warranted: that's not a dig at anyone, that's simply who Homura is. She tends to see wishes as the death sentences they often are, and proximity to danger has an extremely strong correlation with wish-making. She fights so that others don't have to, but normally, once you're a magical girl there's not a way out.

[X] On a separate note... You can understand Chiyoda's actions, given certain assumptions. Enough that you're not massively upset with her.

That's a bit of an addition but it was a real concern.

E: not that I'm going to win on this anyway >_>
 
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Made a minor adjustment to my vote. Nothing was taken out. Just reworded the last line cause I felt the message I was going for was getting sidetracked a little.


Also I found the line in regards to the concerns to anything being told to Sayaka would funnel straight down to Madoka.

"I've tried to help her before," Homura says quietly. "I don't want her to die. I don't want her to drag Madoka down."

"I know," you say, and give Homura a proud smile. You perch on the edge of a crate, tilting your head back to look at the dusty ceiling idly swinging the bottle of water by the neck. "The thing is, it goes back to what I said, about the morally right and wrong mentality. If you're evil, then accepting help from you would be evil."

Homura nods.

"You're not evil. But it's about first impressions," you say. "And... really, I think what would have worked? Just getting to her before Kyuubey did, before she could form a negative opinion of you. Tell her about Walpurgisnacht, tell her that you're gearing up to fight something monstrously evil, and that would have worked."

"I couldn't have," Homura murmurs. "Because-"

"Then Madoka would know," you finish for her, and sigh. "I understand that. Though... that said? Here and now, it's part of why telling Sayaka about your loops would work, I think."

The line was mentioned in context of fighting Walpurgisnacht. Given that it was something that directly had an impact on Madoka and clearly endangered herself, her family, her friends, Sayaka herself and so on that's not quite the same thing as claiming anything we were to mention to Sayaka, Madoka herself would find out about. It's an urgent matter that directly involves Madoka and threatens the safety of herself and everyone she cares about. She had nearly every right to know in that circumstance. The context is different.
 
Just tell Sayaka that we're worried she'll do something stupid in the name of HALPING and that Sayaka needs to not screw around with dangerous information. Why are we trying to manipulate Sayaka and dance all around this when we could just talk to her? Communication, people. We fucked up with Sayaka because we didn't talk to her and she decided to take matters into her own hands. Let's not make exactly the same mistake again.
 
Just tell Sayaka that we're worried she'll do something stupid in the name of HALPING and that Sayaka needs to not screw around with dangerous information. Why are we trying to manipulate Sayaka and dance all around this when we could just talk to her? Communication, people. We fucked up with Sayaka because we didn't talk to her and she decided to take matters into her own hands. Let's not make exactly the same mistake again.

What?

I am emphatically not worried she'll do something stupid. I'm worried that Homura won't appreciate us telling her these things.

Homura's beliefs about not sharing her past or motives are grounded in her trauma, not in reality. The trauma, unfortunately, is both very real and emphatically not something we should exacerbate in a casual manner. We are her only real friend goddammit.

Also, to be blunt, I'm annoyed that I'm going to have to run damage control on the aftermath of this vote instead of getting to make progress with Homura. We are spending credibility and trust with Homura on telling Sayaka minimally useful or important things instead of on, say, getting her to agree to actually let us share her past with someone. It's something I'm genuinely up in arms about, and if I weren't alternatively ripping apart my head, doing work for finals, and falling over, I'd be tearing away at this thread non-stop.

E: section removed for being pointless and mildly rude
 
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What?

I am emphatically not worried she'll do something stupid. I'm worried that Homura won't appreciate us telling her these things.

Homura's beliefs about not sharing her past or motives are grounded in her trauma, not in reality. The trauma, unfortunately, is both very real and emphatically not something we should exacerbate in a casual manner. We are her only real friend goddammit.

Also, to be blunt, I'm annoyed that I'm going to have to run damage control on the aftermath of this vote instead of getting to make progress with Homura. We are spending credibility and trust with Homura on telling Sayaka things instead of on, say, getting her to agree to actually let us share her past with someone. It's something I'm genuinely up in arms about, and if I weren't alternatively ripping apart my head, doing work for finals, and falling over, I'd be tearing away at this thread non-stop.
Dude. Stop. You need to listen to yourself for a minute. You are way overreacting and making a mountain out of a molehill. This really isn't half or even a quarter as bad as you're making it out to be.

There is no breach of trust here. No bombs are being dropped. No actual aspects or details of Homura's past are being revealed here. All I have here is a vague implication that something is going on with Homura which... Sayaka already knew with what little context she had. I'm almost bothered by how... generic I had to put it in.

The standards of which you are decrying this perceived breach of trust is not reasonable.
 
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There is another angle to consider with all this. If we don't answer Sayaka about this (allaying her fears vaguely or treading lightly on Homura's secrets), Sayaka might end up addressing her concerns to Madoka off-screen. As Oriko did mention (and as alluded to by Sayaka regarding understanding business deals), Madoka is frighteningly more intelligent than people give her credit for, and if Madoka works out Homura's secret ahead of Sayaka... well... things might become a hell of a lot worse anyway (contracting probably being the least of our concerns).

For this reason, perhaps a good compromise would be telling Sayaka something along the lines of this: "You're right... and... it sometimes hurts... it hurts so much having all this knowledge. Knowing ahead of time why people are doing what they are... but not being able to use that knowledge... without hurting the very people you want to help. There is a reason for it all, but Homura means well... even if she has an odd way of showing it. You know how our wishes tend to give us weapons and powers based on what we wished for or who we are as a person... Homura has a shield. That should tell you that deep down... she's protective at heart. Of her friends... of the people she cares about. Give Homura time... as much as she needs... and when that time comes, it'll all make sense."

Cue Sabrina catching a flash in her mind's eye of Homura making her wish...

It doesn't touch on why Homura behaves that way, but it instead gives Sayaka a new avenue of context and insight for her to understand something about Homura as a person... also gives Sabrina an opportunity to vent a bit about Metaknowledge having severe drawbacks. It even avoids mentioning things such as Walpurgis. Though I will concede it might lead to Sayaka asking would her ability to control time have to do with her wish and/ or might end up leading Sayaka to work it out on her own...

Oh, and yes to having Sayaka sit in on the IRC and participate with outreach if there's time after school. In fact, inform Homura about what has happened in Tokyo while sitting in the IRC with Sayaka and use this as an opportunity to get Homura to consider opening up more to Sayaka... might resolve some issues right there.
 
Good point, in that our main communication to Sayaka is that she ought to give Homura her patience and acceptance. "Give her time" is that sort of intent, and I like that. Encouraging more analysis of Homura is probably too early, so talking about her shield as a symbol is probably not for today. It is a great item to keep on hand for round two or three, when Sayaka actually gets more security clearance from Homura.

I'll be a little flippant just for laughs, and say the fastest route to both honestly answer her question to us, and deflect her from focusing on Homura too much, is to slightly mis-categorize using fandom...
"Homura knows Wishing kills people. Unlike the other girls you know, Homura is pretty much Batman. Being Batman is hard, try not to make it harder."

Please mind that this voices Sabrina just a bit wrong.

The best move IMHO is still to create a dialog for them later.
 
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