Alright so I saw Chapter 10 of Magireco and I'm dumping all my important observations.

So the truth of the matter is that in most timelines, Iroha never contracts, and thus neither do Ui, Nemu, and Touka. It seems Kyubey normally avoids them, because Touka's uncle wrote a journal about Magical Girls, and while Touka normally thinks it's a story, it does involve some of the Bombs.
But in this variant timeline where he contracted Iroha, the other three girls eventually follow her into a witch barrier out of worry and see her struggling, and Touka kind of badgers Kyubey into letting them contract and he relents.
Between what she read, and her questions of Kyubey, Touka and the rest know all the bombs and are completely refusing to accept Iroha's fate, so they all make contracts to fuck Kyubey.
The three decided they would take over Kyubey's job, collecting energy and fueling it into the universe without the creation of Witches, so all Magical Girls could be happy.
Ui: "I wish for your power of collecting grief, so allow me to rob it from you!" Touka: "I wish for your power of converting energy, so allow me to rob it from you!" Nemu: "I wish for your power of materializing karma, so allow me to rob it from you!"
He warns that their karmic potential probably won't be able to handle it, so these are all cases of wishing over your potential I guess.
Ui starts to Witch out fucking immediately because she starts collecting Grief from all over the planet. Touka uses her power to essentially Doppel Ui, but Eve is still way too powerful to control and forms a shell around her body. The only way they can think of to stop things is to get their friend Alina to make a barrier (so that Eve only sucks energy from Kamihama) and for Nemu to create a Rumor.
After robbing Kyubey, they left behind the Little Kyubey, which was an empty shell. Nemu's Rumor essentially goes that Ui doesn't exist and the Little QB does, and so they essentially transfer Ui's consciousness into it, at the cost of everyone forgetting Ui ever existed.
The change to everyone's memories cause Alina to become the new third founder of Magius and she's a really toxic influence on everyone, and the group sort of forgot their true mission and all that.
Iroha and Little Kyubey manage to reach the core of Eve that has Ui's body, and by touching it, everyone remembers everything. Iroha then breaks her out, and Little Kyubey merges back into her, waking Ui up and stopping Eve, though the giant doppel is still sitting there like a fucking wrecked and abandoned mecha.
Walpy is still incoming, and throughout this whole thing there was like this little World War Witch between the familiars of Eve and Walpy.
Chapter 10 ends here, thus far. Internet seems to consensus-speculate that Alina is gonna absorb Eve and become Holy Alina.
So with all this it seems like Touka kind of got the best power because she can avoid corrupting her Soul Gem, but at the same time Kyubey fucking hates her because her magic doesn't fight entropy the way she's stealing and repurposing energy.
And Rumors seem to be essentially an identical phenomenon to the Clara Dolls, since they're outgrowths of Nemu's personal Karma.
It seems that under the crannies of their memories, the real point of the Magius cult was essentially to bootstrap their own personal karma to a global scale so they could handle their magic.
and Nemu and Touka could probably work together to forge Contracts.
 
Nothing stopping us from finding out, since apparently they're in every timeline, presumably including this one, just currently uncontracted.
Yes they're in every timeline, but they only live if Iroha contracts, which in itself is a unique event among timelines. Almost all of the time, Iroha doesn't contract and the three girls end up dying one after another.
 
The problem is

The Magius crew contracting sorta-kinda breaks reality, but admittedly that might be due to the lack-of-Sabrina issues.
 
The problem is

The Magius crew contracting sorta-kinda breaks reality, but admittedly that might be due to the lack-of-Sabrina issues.

Aren't we sorta-kinda breaking reality anyway? :thonk: Granted, we might not want to make things worse. On the other hand, if the universe already has it out for us, we can't make things worse, so we might as well. On the third hand, made of grief, we don't want to drag anyone uninvolved into the line of fire. Bah, ignore my ramblings.

Anyway, this is all very intriguing. I support Redshirt's plan of saving the not!future!Wings of Magius without them contracting.
 
Sounds like something we need to fix. :thonk:
I mean, yea, for sure we should do this, regardless. But it will almost guarantee they contract, if
Iroha does
. The optimal solution is that none of the four, do.

Would they like a super-capable leader to give them a way to do the mortal dirtywork behind the rise of Mitakihara? Do they want to ultimately revise what it means to be a Magical Girl? Without becoming Magical themselves? Sabrina is shorthanded. Magic isn't always required, it's about people.

Sound like we have discovered a neat set of activities for Madoka?

Not dealing with Magical Girls, they are potentials. check.
Accomplish important things, in a clandestine manner? Check.
Tough job? Check.
Saving people with her own hands? Check.
Homura can still be her shadow? Check.
"Here are people that you can manage. They are bold, committed and idealistic. Train them. Keep them healthy and out of contracts.
We need them for the Avengers Magius Project."

By their powers combined, we are Captain Hammer!
How do I know that isn't fairly close to the truth already? lol

Maybe we can meet them for the first time using the staging from the Kool-Aide Man commercials?
 
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Would they like a super-capable leader to give them a way to do the mortal dirtywork behind the rise of Mitakihara? Do they want to ultimately revise what it means to be a Magical Girl? Without becoming Magical themselves? Sabrina is shorthanded. Magic isn't always required, it's about people.
Keep in mind that it was less of their capabilities as leaders as to why Magical Girls joined them, and more of the fact that most of their recruits were Magical Girls who were super terrified of the Magical Girl system, and also those that didn't want to fight. That and occasional brainwashing.

As for the dirty work, the only reasons they went to those measures was mostly due to the effect of their memories being kinda screwed up, which made them lose the reason behind their goals, and being around a person whose moral compass isn't really all there.
 
Yea, um... Alina is great in many ways, but she's extremely toxic.

To the point that she might come to rows with us wanting to end all Witches, because she thinks they're beautiful.
 
To the point that she might come to rows with us wanting to end all Witches, because she thinks they're beautiful.
I mean yeah, I get that, but its not conducive to good civilization to have people running around freely while locked into solipsistic omnicidal mania.

(Ending witches is not an objective. We want to make it so that they're able to interact with people in other ways than as parasite/predators - dewitching is the most likely to be a socially acceptable route for that but I'd like us to be open to consider alternatives if it doesn't pan out.)
 
dewitching is the most likely to be a socially acceptable route for that but I'd like us to be open to consider alternatives
Please speculate more? How would the end state of that work out?

Sentient jewelry that shares inspiration with her Gothic poet partner?
The top tier in stock market contrarian thinking?
Holodeck for abstract artists?
Quirky, endearing magitech Programmable Logic Controller stand-in?
Last stop in the Hospice treatment?

Even without a Grief surplus, I imagine Witches to have very eccentric psychology. Even if they don't kill, most could be 'unpleasant' in social aspect? We can try the experiment soon, if we are agreed to focus on that.
Our emotion feeding plan is probably one way to achieve a required portion of the cure.

Alina ...., because she thinks they're beautiful.

Bishop, the android. As a Magical Girl?
 
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Please speculate more? How would the end state of that work out?
Look, what I'm saying is if its not okay to body shame normal people it's not okay to morphshame magical girls or witches.

We want to encourage and enforce expressions and behaviors that are nonpredatory and preferably symbiotic, but we shouldn't be telling them that being eldritch abominations in defiance of the laws of physics and common sense (or would the pc term be nonstandard expressions of abstract mathematics and nonstandard neurotypes?) is in ANY WAY WRONG.

(Eating or hurting people is wrong. People are friends, not food.)
 
Look, what I'm saying is if its not okay to body shame normal people it's not okay to morphshame magical girls or witches.
Nobody ever said witches are ugly. The issue is that they're literally made of despair, and not in Sabrina's way where it's just a building material that happens to be despair. Sabrina felt a small fraction of what being a witch feels like when she tried hacking a familiar. It was way worse than any amount of body positivity will ever be able to hope to approach addressing. Enforcement of anti-murder rules won't help that every moment of a witch's life contains more torment than most people will experience in their entire lives.

Now, if the thing we're doing with clear seeds results in Rochelles rather than restoring the original personality, I don't think anyone here would reject the adorable spider girl.
 
Nobody ever said witches are ugly. The issue is that they're literally made of despair, and not in Sabrina's way where it's just a building material that happens to be despair. Sabrina felt a small fraction of what being a witch feels like when she tried hacking a familiar. It was way worse than any amount of body positivity will ever be able to hope to approach addressing. Enforcement of anti-murder rules won't help that every moment of a witch's life contains more torment than most people will experience in their entire lives.

Agreement.

Now, if the thing we're doing with clear seeds results in Rochelles rather than restoring the original personality, I don't think anyone here would reject the adorable spider girl.

Mind you we would probably set up a robust care and socialization scheme for the likes of them. And they can't have our Mami.
Unless Sabrina and Mami decide to adopt, anyway, in which case we can share, I guess.
 
Should we plan on taking Mami on a date in Tokyo, since it's a city that actually exists and has real places that we can evaluate the romance of?
 
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