The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
As a scholar by nature, I always enjoy doing research, but I won't say the sound of panicked screaming as I present my findings doesn't make me feel so... appreciated. <3
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Okay, that fucking settles it. We need to buckle down andfigure out Feathers toot sweet. We can talk with the Kures later today.
Using Omnur's vote as a base, cutting the Kures, adding in my bits:
[X] Raid:
-[X] Preferentially target Yakuza bases outside of Mitakihara. Take all the money this time.
-[X] Jokingly consider repeating the mop thing.
-[X] Thank Homura for the trip and spending time with you. You're looking forward to next time.
[X] Back at school:
-[X] 'Sternly' ask Sayaka if she stayed out of trouble for the twenty seconds you were gone.
-[X] Be fluffy with Mami before you part ways for the day.
[X] Use pleasant memories to make "Happy" enchanted Grief. Feed it to Aurora, along with "hopeful" magic.
[X] Go to Warehouse-kun, set up a privacy sphere- jigger it specifically to keep out coobies and cosmic entities- and pull out the Feather for analysis.
-{?} Shift yourself and the privacy sphere into four-space for extra privacy
--{?} Cover your soul gem in a protective grief shell
-[X] Physical traits. Try identifying the species of bird it came from, is possible. Also "comb" it with as fine as long as grief cloud as you can get, to acertain it's structure. Molecular is good. Sub-atomic is better.
-[X] Griefhax up some sort of psychometry or postcog. Point it at the Feather.
-[X] Griefhax up a magic scanner. Point it at the Feather.
-[X] Press the Feather against a Grief Seed.
-[X] Try pushing magic, "happy" and raw, into the Feather.
-[X] See how the Feather reacts to grief, both raw and marble.
Using Omnur's vote as a base, cutting the Kures, adding in my bits:
[X] Raid:
-[X] Preferentially target Yakuza bases outside of Mitakihara. Take all the money this time.
-[X] Jokingly consider repeating the mop thing.
-[X] Thank Homura for the trip and spending time with you. You're looking forward to next time.
[X] Back at school:
-[X] 'Sternly' ask Sayaka if she stayed out of trouble for the twenty seconds you were gone.
-[X] Be fluffy with Mami before you part ways for the day.
[X] Use pleasant memories to make "Happy" enchanted Grief. Feed it to Aurora, along with "hopeful" magic.
[X] Go to Warehouse-kun, set up a privacy sphere- jigger it specifically to keep out coobies and cosmic entities- and pull out the Feather for analysis.
-{?} Shift yourself and the privacy sphere into four-space for extra privacy
--{?} Cover your soul gem in a protective grief shell
-[X] Physical traits. Try identifying the species of bird it came from, is possible. Also "comb" it with as fine as long as grief cloud as you can get, to acertain it's structure. Molecular is good. Sub-atomic is better.
-[X] Griefhax up some sort of psychometry or postcog. Point it at the Feather.
-[X] Griefhax up a magic scanner. Point it at the Feather.
-[X] Press the Feather against a Grief Seed.
-[X] Try pushing magic, "happy" and raw, into the Feather.
-[X] See how the Feather reacts to grief, both raw and marble.
- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, we can still all that later today. I just want to make at least progress on figuring out the Feather, and do it before we forget or put it off.
Actually, I just had an idea. Even though Kyoko's rejected her wish, she can still use native illusion enchantments, right? Thus, the logic goes that Oriko could make native enchantments of her own; some thing involving precog.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Hopefully. We could use some combat precog; Mami can't always watch our back.
Maybe after O does some more improvement on the emotional front? After yesterday, I've been thinking we might want to tell her upfront what the realization AU Oriko had was. You know,
[] Hugs
-[] You are a good girl/woman and don't owe anything to anyone
--[] well except to Sayaka but we're working on it
-[] all the shit in your life was the adults' fault. They were wrong, not you.
-[Q] Give her a gold ring, grab O&K by the shoulders, make them face each other, step away.
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Huh. Gretchen does have a feather theme, doesn't she?
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Yea, she fucking does.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
wait... ok I'm lost. Are we proposing that Madoka WITCH from another timeline is feathers?!
blast flame
How far will we go if it means lighting the way?
- Location
- Perth, Australia
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Hmm, so does that mean that feathers might target us more the more grief we have in our cloud?
- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
... We're going to need a bigger range.
Like, ten fucktons bigger. Because the world''s a big place, and there's ten fucktons a grief in it.
It's fine. We'll just unlock the power of AI YO and put on a certain dress and we'll have all the range we need.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Mmm, it's more then that. Gretchen is a twisted reflection of Madoka's wish for salvation - she'll destroy the world as a whole to try to "save" it unless it's already perfect and without suffering. (As a thought exercise, compare and contrast this behaviour with Sabrina "Adfligo Systema" Vee.)
Given that I don't think that Firn expects us to solve world peace in the scope of this thread, that presumably either means that continuing to strive to make the world better will ward off Gretchen and it won't come to a fight at all, or that the "world free of misfortune/grief" needed to beat her can be considered limited to magical spooky Grief.
Sabrina is kind of categorically worthless in any direct contest against Gretchen, though - you can't ever defeat the witch of salvation by throwing more grief at her. (Which, if we really are a product of the same wish that created this Gretchen is hilariously appropriate.) Our contribution will be limited to setting the stage for Gretchen's defeat by getting rid of all the grief and letting other Puella finish the fight.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Not necessarily her witch. (Yet. After all I think it's a valid reading that Madoka does kinda have a harder time considering the wishes and needs of others as she accumulates grief and approaches witchout. See the third timeline, her asking Homura to prevent her from becoming a witch, and the resulting effect on... everything.)
A wish as strong as fixing everything would certainly be enough for Madoka to become a god. Problem is there wasn't exactly a clause to stop herself from accumulating grief, so if this whole line of thought is right she's a rather... corruptible god.
And regardless of how she might have arrived, it's not like the Madoka of that timeline hasn't had a observable and verifiable impact on this timeline.
Even if you discount seeing Madokami in the first post, she made us, and we are here. And we notably appeared twelve days after the loop started.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Homucifer: ... fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Madothulu: Ho-mura-a-chan~
Homucifer: .. ... RUN AWAY
Lord Chungus
God of Nutella
- Location
- The Hague (it’s where all the cool people are)
....
OH NUTELLA, IS FEATHERS PINKY? AHHHHH, SHIT!
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We need to convince Homura that stabbing herself with her own sword will grant her the super powers needed to save Madothullu.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
*Stares balefully at Sabrina across the table*
*Shifts unconfortably*
"... I'm sorry I preemptively blamed you for everything bad, when it was Madoka's fault and you ended up helping save everyone."
"And...?"
"... And I'm sorry I cast doubt on Madoka's ability to pull off an evil masterplan, but in my defense, I was doubting her motives, rather than her ability."
"Hm. Apology accepted."
"And I'm sorry I made jokes with everyone about the cocktail dress."
"You did what."
"Can we forget I said that?"
*Gets up*
"Be right back, don't move, need to erase everyone's memories."
*Turns around and gets tackle-grabbed by Sabrina from behind*
*Struggle ensues*
"Wait a second, why would you erase everyone's memories?!"
"Because I don't want them to know about the cocktail dress!"
"What? Why?!"
"Because it's embarrasing!"
"Those are your coming out of the closet clothes! Wasn't the point that everyone knew?!"
"It seemed like a great idea at the time, but follow me on this one: I was high on Grief and Love and coming out of the closet. It's super embarrasing now!"
"But you already came out! You can't go back in!"
"I can if nobody remembers!"
"Mom, you are not going back into the closet!"
"I AM THE CLOSET!"
(It all went downhill from there.)
*Shifts unconfortably*
"... I'm sorry I preemptively blamed you for everything bad, when it was Madoka's fault and you ended up helping save everyone."
"And...?"
"... And I'm sorry I cast doubt on Madoka's ability to pull off an evil masterplan, but in my defense, I was doubting her motives, rather than her ability."
"Hm. Apology accepted."
"And I'm sorry I made jokes with everyone about the cocktail dress."
"You did what."
"Can we forget I said that?"
*Gets up*
"Be right back, don't move, need to erase everyone's memories."
*Turns around and gets tackle-grabbed by Sabrina from behind*
*Struggle ensues*
"Wait a second, why would you erase everyone's memories?!"
"Because I don't want them to know about the cocktail dress!"
"What? Why?!"
"Because it's embarrasing!"
"Those are your coming out of the closet clothes! Wasn't the point that everyone knew?!"
"It seemed like a great idea at the time, but follow me on this one: I was high on Grief and Love and coming out of the closet. It's super embarrasing now!"
"But you already came out! You can't go back in!"
"I can if nobody remembers!"
"Mom, you are not going back into the closet!"
"I AM THE CLOSET!"
(It all went downhill from there.)
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I feel like people are wildly leaping to conclusions over the flimsiest of "evidence" and assumptions.
...though the image of Homura wielding a sword is kind of intriguing. But then it brings to mind how thin and flimsy she looks, and I remember that that girl needs all the hugs and a very, very, very long vacation.
...though the image of Homura wielding a sword is kind of intriguing. But then it brings to mind how thin and flimsy she looks, and I remember that that girl needs all the hugs and a very, very, very long vacation.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Why, exactly, are we doing stuff with the Feather when we should be dumping Hope-flavored magic into our Clear Seed until something happens? That's literally a potentially massive breakthrough in our dewitching efforts, and we've been putting off actually following that thread for what feels like forever. What the hell are we waiting for?
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
That IS some mighty fine theorycraftin' there.
I never even considered it that way. Thanks. Now, what would this thinking lead us to do?
If we want to affect the circumstance, applying the Continuity of Madoka theory along side this one gives us suggestions to evaluate our strategy.
It also lets us consider the circumstance of our creation in a context where we might be part of a category.
The most important part of causality is the ability to interact. So far, our ability to interact with Feathers was extremely limited. Literally isolated causes and effects, and at moments in locations where we learn almost nothing. Our sole choice was decided to be [Avoid Feathers] or not. If the contracted Madoka of (n-1) loop is Feathers, all of this changes, in our favor! Madoka's oversoul would, by definition, be in contact and communicate with Madoka derived higher existences and instances of herself as a mortal. There are some sympathetic principles in Magic. The technical means exist to falsify the theory, using the similarity principle to detect "connections to Madoka" that we expect should not exist. That makes a good theory! Instead of general Psychometry, which is based on conceptual "knowledge" and might be jammed like Precog could have been jammed, we could measure "similarity." Whatever the existing item is, it has to be that item for us to understand it to exist. We see the Feather, therefore facts about the present Feather are not hidden. If the Feather has any connection of similarity to the soul of Madoka, we gain a fact. The same test can be used to inspect other putative links if that one is null, as well. If the theory is not falsified, the very same fact allows us to access Feathers in a different fashion, and potentially contest her actions. I won't go farther until we learn a little more.
The MadoFeathers theory also got me to acknowledge something else. Even if we are not having a Crisis of Infinite Madokas, our social links with her are lagging a bit. We had to put in a lot of work to start the path towards Homura, and it is rewarding. To bring about the Golden Ending, we may have to prepare to participate on Madoka's side as well. At this time, we are much weaker in that direction. Her friends are helping the "don't contract" message reach her, but the acid test is "can we make her satisfied?" Do we have a firm idea of how to do that? Could we give Madoka another functioning concept of how to handle her drive for goodness, other than trying to go Super Saiyan? Such an agenda is fraught due to the emotional experiences that Homura brings to our group, so first we need to discern if Homura's partition of information Re:Madoka is survivable, or if we need to form a new plan.
Golden Eyes, yes - but whose? The Law of Cycles using our Madoka as a terminal isn't too alarming, but what if that wasn't what we saw? What if a different Goddess Madoka was present? Could that mean Madoka is a variant Magical Girl right this moment?
If MadoFeathers is true, we have a different ruleset, because Madoka would be in superposition as both contracted and mortal. Yeesh.
If Madoka's Advent involved a Wish to fix things, and we were a result of this, were we the only human result? Or just the most personalized? If one could de-witch UKG, etc., one might be able to do the same to many other beings of lesser stature. Are there other girls around the world, freshly hatched in the 12 days prior to our decanting? Perhaps without anomalous Grief powers or superhuman memories of Mitakihara, but just as determined to walk the path made for us?
Edit: If verified, we are actually a Doppel...? Sorta?
Boiled down:
[] Ponder. Make a 'hax to "measure relation between the target and the person Sabrina is currently concentrating upon most. Numerical readout or portrait of other known person(s) involved as appropriate." Test on Grief fresh from a cleansing. Test a handwritten note. Test upon a fingernail clipping. Test upon favorite normal clothing or phone. Test upon Magical Girl uniform. Test the Feather.
We can certainly dose the Clear Seed again. It isn't a long process. We should also try a much larger dose sometime soon, as a group project.
I never even considered it that way. Thanks. Now, what would this thinking lead us to do?
If we want to affect the circumstance, applying the Continuity of Madoka theory along side this one gives us suggestions to evaluate our strategy.
It also lets us consider the circumstance of our creation in a context where we might be part of a category.
The most important part of causality is the ability to interact. So far, our ability to interact with Feathers was extremely limited. Literally isolated causes and effects, and at moments in locations where we learn almost nothing. Our sole choice was decided to be [Avoid Feathers] or not. If the contracted Madoka of (n-1) loop is Feathers, all of this changes, in our favor! Madoka's oversoul would, by definition, be in contact and communicate with Madoka derived higher existences and instances of herself as a mortal. There are some sympathetic principles in Magic. The technical means exist to falsify the theory, using the similarity principle to detect "connections to Madoka" that we expect should not exist. That makes a good theory! Instead of general Psychometry, which is based on conceptual "knowledge" and might be jammed like Precog could have been jammed, we could measure "similarity." Whatever the existing item is, it has to be that item for us to understand it to exist. We see the Feather, therefore facts about the present Feather are not hidden. If the Feather has any connection of similarity to the soul of Madoka, we gain a fact. The same test can be used to inspect other putative links if that one is null, as well. If the theory is not falsified, the very same fact allows us to access Feathers in a different fashion, and potentially contest her actions. I won't go farther until we learn a little more.
The MadoFeathers theory also got me to acknowledge something else. Even if we are not having a Crisis of Infinite Madokas, our social links with her are lagging a bit. We had to put in a lot of work to start the path towards Homura, and it is rewarding. To bring about the Golden Ending, we may have to prepare to participate on Madoka's side as well. At this time, we are much weaker in that direction. Her friends are helping the "don't contract" message reach her, but the acid test is "can we make her satisfied?" Do we have a firm idea of how to do that? Could we give Madoka another functioning concept of how to handle her drive for goodness, other than trying to go Super Saiyan? Such an agenda is fraught due to the emotional experiences that Homura brings to our group, so first we need to discern if Homura's partition of information Re:Madoka is survivable, or if we need to form a new plan.
Golden Eyes, yes - but whose? The Law of Cycles using our Madoka as a terminal isn't too alarming, but what if that wasn't what we saw? What if a different Goddess Madoka was present? Could that mean Madoka is a variant Magical Girl right this moment?
If MadoFeathers is true, we have a different ruleset, because Madoka would be in superposition as both contracted and mortal. Yeesh.
If Madoka's Advent involved a Wish to fix things, and we were a result of this, were we the only human result? Or just the most personalized? If one could de-witch UKG, etc., one might be able to do the same to many other beings of lesser stature. Are there other girls around the world, freshly hatched in the 12 days prior to our decanting? Perhaps without anomalous Grief powers or superhuman memories of Mitakihara, but just as determined to walk the path made for us?
Edit: If verified, we are actually a Doppel...? Sorta?
Boiled down:
[] Ponder. Make a 'hax to "measure relation between the target and the person Sabrina is currently concentrating upon most. Numerical readout or portrait of other known person(s) involved as appropriate." Test on Grief fresh from a cleansing. Test a handwritten note. Test upon a fingernail clipping. Test upon favorite normal clothing or phone. Test upon Magical Girl uniform. Test the Feather.
uhhh... SHnY level?
Supplied by the industry. Qualidea Code. Maybe I'll find a clip.
We can certainly dose the Clear Seed again. It isn't a long process. We should also try a much larger dose sometime soon, as a group project.
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- Location
- Illinois
No.
We have two apparent options. One is to try fancy grief tricks we have no grounding for. The other is to ask Homura, a bloody eyewitness, what the fuck happened last loop so that it didn't go how Canon did.
The Oriko business is a result of Redshirt being smart and suggesting we ask Oriko what's going on with Homura before rooting around in Homura's past.
This "oh my God we're Gretchen, quick, instead of asking questions of people who clearly know things we don't, we need to 'buckle down' and use grief tricks on the feather" is hysterics. There is no other word for an illogical course of action dictated by fear.
I frankly support taking a close look at the thing. But what you're suggesting is hysterical fallacy. "Revelations" such as this argument are a dime a dozen in this thread, as are foolish responses -- example, the one time we all decided that we had to tell Homura that we might be Walpurgisnacht.
Thank you, sweet voice of sanity.
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- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm just, frustrated and, you're right, scared. Scared of us putting this off again. It's been four goddamn years, and still, all we have on Feathers is theories.
There's two things about me: I'm not the most social guy, and I'm a procrastinator. For the former, I can tell jokes and interact with people, yeah, but I haven't really deeply connected with someone outside my family years. In my mind, doing something is more likely to yield results than talking to someone. Looking back, not the best mindset to have in PMMM.
As for the procrastinating, that's a bit of a thing with me. I almost failed my English class and just barely scraped by my Engineering classes because I kept putting things off; I said, "I'll do this later, I still have time". That attitude nearly killed me (metaphorically). Phoenixian drops his post, and I panic- "we have to figure this out now, before it sneaks up on us later" was my line of thinking.
Bah, this is what I get for posting while sleepy.
[X] Null
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
DB, DB, DB... repeat with me: We're not gonna shoot our friends at people and/or Witches!
... Except maybe if they're clones, but only if they consent to it. Or if it is Kirika, and only if Oriko consents to it.
OK, so maybe we will shoot our friends at things, but only in very specific situations.
EDIT: Wait I actually confused you for DB. Somehow.
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