Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
That would be amazing.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
That would be amazing.
RexHeller
Title Incoming. Please Hold.
- Location
- Somewhere else.
Oh, speaking of crossovers, one of the ideas kicking around in my plot bunny thread is the PMMM cast getting reincarnated into Naruto. Would that Naruto version of Sabrina be able to control all chakra?
What magic would you even get for wishing for Dark Souls? Really, really shitty immortality?Well, as @Redshirt Army said, could always opt for Demon's Souls instead.
Or have someone wish for it.
Snrk. Literally just posted a Nanoha crossover with Madoka taking Nanoha's place in my plot bunny thread yesterday. Nice timing.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Having Kaguya-esque powers would be pretty similar, thematically, to the role that Sabrina plays with regards to PMMM. Presumably her mission would be to stop the whole World Tree business.
Laurelin
Ain't got nothing better.
- Location
- Where the Wild Wolves Have Gone
Respawning at bonfires? Turning hollow? Summoning other magical girls to aid you in a fight? Praising the sun? Video-game developing powers? ^^"
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I had been working on updating my vote, but now it's been many days without having thought about it. >_>
Not gonna update right now, need time to think and I'm be busy for a bit.
I've tried to explain each point, but I do need to do further thinking. Of course, maybe someone else will chop this for parts?
Spoiling this because it's big, thanks to explanations. Don't let this stop non-voting conversation.
Wish for dark soul, get the darksign. Which then goes and spreads amongst the population and turns everyone into zombies!
PMMM!
Not gonna update right now, need time to think and I'm be busy for a bit.
Votecrafting so far; needs work:
[] Brinapilot.
-[] Regain patience.
-[] If Riona's patience stretches thin, intersperse secondary topics.
-[] Dig at Riona's reasons.
(Previous vote called Sabrina's patience to be about to snap. Calm down.
Had been thinking of directly addressing Riona's baiting, calling her out on it, and still being the better woman and re-assuring we want to solve things peacefully. But I'm not sure.
Digging at Riona's reasons, and the reasons underneath those reasons is, I think, what we should've been doing all along. She won't tell us what her deal is; what can she tell us? We need to go deeper.*
Another line I was thinking of was '-[] Keep insisting you want to help.' Don't understimate the power of someone simply insisting on and on and on. As long as Riona's patience doesn't snap... that's why the part about changing topics is there; control the conversation.)
[] Offer and (ask Mami to) get refreshments. Don't leave the bubble nor stop talking.
(Not vital, but at least we've seen Riona does seem to have manners of some sort (offering us a drink), so maybe this would help ease social along.)
[] Answer:
-[] It's not about taking away. Your goal is to give her, everyone, a chance to do better.
-[] Killing and using people's actual Souls. Nobody deserves that. Is this what she wants to be?
(It's the first line that's really the answer. Riona's afraid of losing what's she's got, her collected army of souls, her sense of security. In order to solve things peacefully, we can't just take that away, we need Riona to give us a chance to make things work better.
The second line is aimed at making Riona think about the shades, perhaps about her hypothetical sister's shade. It might or might not be too confrontational? I don't know, it's been a while.)
[] Look for compromise.
-[] No more killing.
-[] You'll help fix her reason to 'need' an undead army. Then she'll release them.
--[] Acknowledge exceptions:
---[] Volunteers? Fine.
---[] Anyone she wanted to revive? You'll help.
(This vote block was made with the idea of Brinapilot in mind: It could be worded better, it's not about throwing these condition at Riona, but Sabrina reacting to the developing conversation at a level we can't from here, and trying to work towards these goals.)
[] If she won't share her goal, ask after her underlying reasons.
-[] What's her motivation? What can she share?
(*)
[] Secondary topics:
-[] De-Witching.
--[] Let Riona examine Aurora.
--[] Explain your experiments so far.
-[] Ask after her powers.
--[] What does your Soul look like?
-[] Wish rejection: describe Oriko's symptoms.
(The topics we could hit if the main discussion gets heated. Try and calm down and get Riona to calm down by spending time talking about other things.)
[] Brinapilot.
-[] Regain patience.
-[] If Riona's patience stretches thin, intersperse secondary topics.
-[] Dig at Riona's reasons.
(Previous vote called Sabrina's patience to be about to snap. Calm down.
Had been thinking of directly addressing Riona's baiting, calling her out on it, and still being the better woman and re-assuring we want to solve things peacefully. But I'm not sure.
Digging at Riona's reasons, and the reasons underneath those reasons is, I think, what we should've been doing all along. She won't tell us what her deal is; what can she tell us? We need to go deeper.*
Another line I was thinking of was '-[] Keep insisting you want to help.' Don't understimate the power of someone simply insisting on and on and on. As long as Riona's patience doesn't snap... that's why the part about changing topics is there; control the conversation.)
[] Offer and (ask Mami to) get refreshments. Don't leave the bubble nor stop talking.
(Not vital, but at least we've seen Riona does seem to have manners of some sort (offering us a drink), so maybe this would help ease social along.)
[] Answer:
-[] It's not about taking away. Your goal is to give her, everyone, a chance to do better.
-[] Killing and using people's actual Souls. Nobody deserves that. Is this what she wants to be?
(It's the first line that's really the answer. Riona's afraid of losing what's she's got, her collected army of souls, her sense of security. In order to solve things peacefully, we can't just take that away, we need Riona to give us a chance to make things work better.
The second line is aimed at making Riona think about the shades, perhaps about her hypothetical sister's shade. It might or might not be too confrontational? I don't know, it's been a while.)
[] Look for compromise.
-[] No more killing.
-[] You'll help fix her reason to 'need' an undead army. Then she'll release them.
--[] Acknowledge exceptions:
---[] Volunteers? Fine.
---[] Anyone she wanted to revive? You'll help.
(This vote block was made with the idea of Brinapilot in mind: It could be worded better, it's not about throwing these condition at Riona, but Sabrina reacting to the developing conversation at a level we can't from here, and trying to work towards these goals.)
[] If she won't share her goal, ask after her underlying reasons.
-[] What's her motivation? What can she share?
(*)
[] Secondary topics:
-[] De-Witching.
--[] Let Riona examine Aurora.
--[] Explain your experiments so far.
-[] Ask after her powers.
--[] What does your Soul look like?
-[] Wish rejection: describe Oriko's symptoms.
(The topics we could hit if the main discussion gets heated. Try and calm down and get Riona to calm down by spending time talking about other things.)
I've tried to explain each point, but I do need to do further thinking. Of course, maybe someone else will chop this for parts?
Spoiling this because it's big, thanks to explanations. Don't let this stop non-voting conversation.
Don't forget it needs to end in despair.
Wish for dark soul, get the darksign. Which then goes and spreads amongst the population and turns everyone into zombies!
PMMM!
RexHeller
Title Incoming. Please Hold.
- Location
- Somewhere else.
"See Sayaka? You're not a zombie. These are zombies."Don't forget it needs to end in despair.
Wish for dark soul, get the darksign. Which then goes and spreads amongst the population and turns everyone into zombies!
PMMM!
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Computer programming powers. Obviously this was the wish of the hackerguca from Ishinomaki.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Sabrina's Eberron equivalent might be somebody with a True Dragonmark(The level of Dragonmark above a Mark of Siberys that's basically a plot device). Like Erandis D'Vol had before she was forced into lichification.
In the meantime here's some ponderances I've had.
Firn has provided two hard and fast statements about Rionna ooc from the information post.
1. Rionna is morally grey for the purposes of this quest. Not Sir Cackles von Babyeater the Orcish stereotype.
2. Rionna has done terrible things. Things that are perhaps justified by the system she has been working under yet things that should not be excused. This could also be interpreted as she is not doing anything terrible right now, which is a distinction that could matter when the GM has expressed a fondness for wordplay/hiding things in plain sight, and might support Riona's hypothesis about them not being aware.
Tangentially but still related to the previous bit of word of Firn, remorse for someone like Riona without someone she trusts enough to provide emergency cleansing could quite literally condemn her to a fate worse than death. Just because she has not displayed remorse so far does not mean she is incapable of it.
Here's a quote from an old Firnpost, and a list of old Vebyast points acknowledged as broadly correct.
So the question for those who want peace is how do we be excellent to Rionna without going Hard Girls Making Hard Choices? A route that simultaneously understands her past actions were perhaps justified yet does not excuse them because they were farked up too. How do we pull a Stannis on her? I think I've got an idea.
Step 1. Verify whether or not her shades are suffering. How do we know whether or not they are suffering? We're a grief controller. If we ask to see several shades, we will know by the grief they bear whether or not they suffer.
Step 2. If they don't suffer, become her oversight. Temper her justice with mercy.
Assuming the majority of Rionna's targets are people we would give the join or die/get frozen/jailed etc speech anyways, if this works we can:
1. Get a chance to save Riona's victims
2. Save Riona's victims victims.
3. Work on convicing her she doesn't need the shades anymore
4. Find out what the fuck her problem is
Riona has a network of some kind she uses to find these people. Odds are they will hurt more people in the intermission between us freezering her and us getting our own network to find these people. My vote also makes sense because it turns our past demands into Door in the Face Style Negotiation(Door-in-the-face technique - Wikipedia).
In addition, this route is teamwork/going out and fixing things.
[X]In that case there's only one way left for us to avoid a fight.
-[X]I need to see some of your shades so I know they aren't suffering for myself.
-[X]Once I've confirmed that they aren't suffering, you invite me to your future hunts for Magical Girls. All of them. You let me know their crimes beforehand and the basis for your knowledge. You cease hunting normal people. You let me grant your targets the opportunity to take a clear seed and should they wish it, a free flight to Mitakihara in exchange for sinning no more.
-[X]If they reject the offer, their souls are yours. If they sin again in my territory their gems get separated from their bodies and their bodies cryogenically frozen. Or they end up prisoners of an associate of mine who controls buildings. If they sin again outside my territory their souls are yours.
-[x]If Riona asks why: A majority of her targets sound like people you would want to talk to anyways and this enables you to save more of their victims, compared to if you need to track the people she'd target down from scratch after sealing her gem in an anti-magic box and freezing her body. The problem is that as that as this conversation indicates, you suck at negotiation. You're hoping having her waiting in the wings will make this process easier.
-[x]In addition to my combat skills(I've got a recording of a sparring match I had with that building controller if you need a demonstration) to compensate for the increased difficulty, I am prepared to offer hypersonic transportation and cleansing should you accept these terms, and a clear seed after the first hunt we make together.
-[x]Any questions or do we have a deal?
Other Chunks of Vote idea I came up with in no particular coherency(clearing one of her seeds no strings attached is a potential negotiation tactic to create reciprocity pressure):
[]Given she does not want to stop, she does not want to release her shades, she does not want to fight you, and her not liking to use her powers on decent people is a reasonable supposition, you only see one way left to avoid violence.
-[]A precog with a Sabrina-shaped blind spot told you a friend of yours dies of soul loss tonight. Blue haired power copier named Sayaka Miki. Significantly more impulsive than you, with similiar levels of idealism. A decent person. She cannot copy your powers, and if she dies of soul loss, that fight will happen. You don't know if Sayaka or Riona makes the first move, and from a practical standpoint it's irrelevant to you. Considering you're a terrible liar, you only see one thing left that can reduce the odds of this fight happening.
-[]You've realized the reason you hate what she does is that nobody got the chance to make them a better offer first, give them the opportunity to repent. You would like to be invited on her future hunts to make those better offers, and are willing to lend your skills to compensate for the increased difficulty this will add to her hunts, and provide a clear seed upon completion of your first joint hunt with her. Hypersonic transportation, cleansing, exotic instruments, deadly lasers. You've got a DVD of a sparring match you had with a building controller if she needs a demonstration.
-[]Offer to clear one of her seeds, because if you aren't intending to kill her and still want to make a deal with her, you have no excuse for letting a seed in her possession continue suffering for what Riona did.
-[]Ever Tried judging Kyubey?
In the meantime here's some ponderances I've had.
Firn has provided two hard and fast statements about Rionna ooc from the information post.
1. Rionna is morally grey for the purposes of this quest. Not Sir Cackles von Babyeater the Orcish stereotype.
2. Rionna has done terrible things. Things that are perhaps justified by the system she has been working under yet things that should not be excused. This could also be interpreted as she is not doing anything terrible right now, which is a distinction that could matter when the GM has expressed a fondness for wordplay/hiding things in plain sight, and might support Riona's hypothesis about them not being aware.
Tangentially but still related to the previous bit of word of Firn, remorse for someone like Riona without someone she trusts enough to provide emergency cleansing could quite literally condemn her to a fate worse than death. Just because she has not displayed remorse so far does not mean she is incapable of it.
Here's a quote from an old Firnpost, and a list of old Vebyast points acknowledged as broadly correct.
So the question for those who want peace is how do we be excellent to Rionna without going Hard Girls Making Hard Choices? A route that simultaneously understands her past actions were perhaps justified yet does not excuse them because they were farked up too. How do we pull a Stannis on her? I think I've got an idea.
Step 1. Verify whether or not her shades are suffering. How do we know whether or not they are suffering? We're a grief controller. If we ask to see several shades, we will know by the grief they bear whether or not they suffer.
Step 2. If they don't suffer, become her oversight. Temper her justice with mercy.
Assuming the majority of Rionna's targets are people we would give the join or die/get frozen/jailed etc speech anyways, if this works we can:
1. Get a chance to save Riona's victims
2. Save Riona's victims victims.
3. Work on convicing her she doesn't need the shades anymore
4. Find out what the fuck her problem is
Riona has a network of some kind she uses to find these people. Odds are they will hurt more people in the intermission between us freezering her and us getting our own network to find these people. My vote also makes sense because it turns our past demands into Door in the Face Style Negotiation(Door-in-the-face technique - Wikipedia).
In addition, this route is teamwork/going out and fixing things.
[X]In that case there's only one way left for us to avoid a fight.
-[X]I need to see some of your shades so I know they aren't suffering for myself.
-[X]Once I've confirmed that they aren't suffering, you invite me to your future hunts for Magical Girls. All of them. You let me know their crimes beforehand and the basis for your knowledge. You cease hunting normal people. You let me grant your targets the opportunity to take a clear seed and should they wish it, a free flight to Mitakihara in exchange for sinning no more.
-[X]If they reject the offer, their souls are yours. If they sin again in my territory their gems get separated from their bodies and their bodies cryogenically frozen. Or they end up prisoners of an associate of mine who controls buildings. If they sin again outside my territory their souls are yours.
-[x]If Riona asks why: A majority of her targets sound like people you would want to talk to anyways and this enables you to save more of their victims, compared to if you need to track the people she'd target down from scratch after sealing her gem in an anti-magic box and freezing her body. The problem is that as that as this conversation indicates, you suck at negotiation. You're hoping having her waiting in the wings will make this process easier.
-[x]In addition to my combat skills(I've got a recording of a sparring match I had with that building controller if you need a demonstration) to compensate for the increased difficulty, I am prepared to offer hypersonic transportation and cleansing should you accept these terms, and a clear seed after the first hunt we make together.
-[x]Any questions or do we have a deal?
Other Chunks of Vote idea I came up with in no particular coherency(clearing one of her seeds no strings attached is a potential negotiation tactic to create reciprocity pressure):
[]Given she does not want to stop, she does not want to release her shades, she does not want to fight you, and her not liking to use her powers on decent people is a reasonable supposition, you only see one way left to avoid violence.
-[]A precog with a Sabrina-shaped blind spot told you a friend of yours dies of soul loss tonight. Blue haired power copier named Sayaka Miki. Significantly more impulsive than you, with similiar levels of idealism. A decent person. She cannot copy your powers, and if she dies of soul loss, that fight will happen. You don't know if Sayaka or Riona makes the first move, and from a practical standpoint it's irrelevant to you. Considering you're a terrible liar, you only see one thing left that can reduce the odds of this fight happening.
-[]You've realized the reason you hate what she does is that nobody got the chance to make them a better offer first, give them the opportunity to repent. You would like to be invited on her future hunts to make those better offers, and are willing to lend your skills to compensate for the increased difficulty this will add to her hunts, and provide a clear seed upon completion of your first joint hunt with her. Hypersonic transportation, cleansing, exotic instruments, deadly lasers. You've got a DVD of a sparring match you had with a building controller if she needs a demonstration.
-[]Offer to clear one of her seeds, because if you aren't intending to kill her and still want to make a deal with her, you have no excuse for letting a seed in her possession continue suffering for what Riona did.
-[]Ever Tried judging Kyubey?
Last edited:
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sabrina's role as a power source that avoids scarcity issues seems more notable to me than what she does with the byproduct. So, a girl in FMA who acts as a philosopher's stone. Call her Nicky.
Nolrai
weak to fangs
- Location
- Porltand
I think quests and morality don't go well together, morality is something to discuss with as little stakes as possible..and the quest means there is always some stake, because it hurts to have a character you feel a measure of control of do something you find reprehensible. It feels like _you_ have done something reprehensible.
Also..people have strong opinions about morality options that aren't going to change very often, unlike questions about strategy or tactics which because they depend so much on the quest itself for substance, sure different people do have opinions on strategy or tactics or how people work, but there's much more of a common ground of an ability feel like we are working together, and much more space for people to change their minds, so it is much more productive and fun.
I know none of this is new, but I just wanted to get down, why someone like me who actually can enjoy fairly acrimonious debates, stopped really participating.
Also..people have strong opinions about morality options that aren't going to change very often, unlike questions about strategy or tactics which because they depend so much on the quest itself for substance, sure different people do have opinions on strategy or tactics or how people work, but there's much more of a common ground of an ability feel like we are working together, and much more space for people to change their minds, so it is much more productive and fun.
I know none of this is new, but I just wanted to get down, why someone like me who actually can enjoy fairly acrimonious debates, stopped really participating.
Re: Boat. Make it submersible too, with wide, magically reinforced viewing screens and enchanted to amplify ambient light to visible yet comfortable levels. A deep sea tour sounds really awesome.
If we also want to unwind with both Mami and Homura, we could bring the gang to the mountains (or somewhere remote) for some target practice. A sniping contest between Mami and Homura sounds pretty neat, with Sayaka acting as spotter. Maybe make it a weekend camping trip too.
Thirdly, I'm thinking Tsurua Yuki's territory control power could make Danger Room-esque obstacle courses/training arenasz which can be great for any newbie allied meguca that could use the extra training. Something to think about, if we get to collab with her, or she (somehow) allows Sayaka to copy her power.
If we also want to unwind with both Mami and Homura, we could bring the gang to the mountains (or somewhere remote) for some target practice. A sniping contest between Mami and Homura sounds pretty neat, with Sayaka acting as spotter. Maybe make it a weekend camping trip too.
Thirdly, I'm thinking Tsurua Yuki's territory control power could make Danger Room-esque obstacle courses/training arenasz which can be great for any newbie allied meguca that could use the extra training. Something to think about, if we get to collab with her, or she (somehow) allows Sayaka to copy her power.
PMAS can be a really difficult quest to participate in. I enjoy reading updates but constantly bounce out of discussion. A few reasons:
1. The constant refrains that Sabrina is here to "fix everything" just sound like such unbridled arrogance that it completely turns me off. I don't even care if the QM declared it possible; when someone goes around declaring they have the power to fix the world I get super-supicious and repelled and kind of want them to get slapped in the face and taught a lesson. Obviously these feelings are completely at odds with the thread culture and feelings.
2. The focus on SCIENCE! and expecting players to come up with novel applications for Sabrina's abilities weirds me out and turns me off. It reminds me of so-called "Rationalist" stories in all the bad ways, like the goal of the story is to hack the mechanics somehow.
3. There's only so much 'dealing with teenage girl emotions' that I can take, at least with this level of immediacy and buy-in. Any particular scene exhausts me and makes me run out of patience long before the story is ready to move on.
"But Briefvoice, do you really enjoy reading the updates? Sounds like this quest just isn't for you and you should move on to something else. Now."
No, I really do enjoy reading the updates because it doesn't require me to be involved so I just read in depth the parts I get deeply interested in and skim anything that seems boring.
1. The constant refrains that Sabrina is here to "fix everything" just sound like such unbridled arrogance that it completely turns me off. I don't even care if the QM declared it possible; when someone goes around declaring they have the power to fix the world I get super-supicious and repelled and kind of want them to get slapped in the face and taught a lesson. Obviously these feelings are completely at odds with the thread culture and feelings.
2. The focus on SCIENCE! and expecting players to come up with novel applications for Sabrina's abilities weirds me out and turns me off. It reminds me of so-called "Rationalist" stories in all the bad ways, like the goal of the story is to hack the mechanics somehow.
3. There's only so much 'dealing with teenage girl emotions' that I can take, at least with this level of immediacy and buy-in. Any particular scene exhausts me and makes me run out of patience long before the story is ready to move on.
"But Briefvoice, do you really enjoy reading the updates? Sounds like this quest just isn't for you and you should move on to something else. Now."
No, I really do enjoy reading the updates because it doesn't require me to be involved so I just read in depth the parts I get deeply interested in and skim anything that seems boring.
- Location
- Illinois
Uh, I hate to say it, but you got this argument wrong.
"But Briefvoice, if you'd rather not deal with teenage girl emotions and there's only so much of the quest you can take, and you constsntly bounce out of discussion, why aren't you subscribed to the story-only thread?"
The one thing nothing in that post explained to me was why you derive pleasure from participating, if you loathe participating so much?
A bit rude of me, I suppose, but it should be asked.
Nolrai
weak to fangs
- Location
- Porltand
That seems backwards to me. I mean it lines up sad to sad. But it also lines up crush to crushee, and active to passive.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Not really? Fate's pretty devoted to Nanoha and sees her as having "saved" her in a way not unlike how Homura does towards Madoka, albeit probably in a psychologically healthier way, so I think that actually lines up pretty well.
Did we ever show Mami our super maid costume?
Jonen C
F.M.D.G.
- Location
- Lincopense, Ostrogothia, Suecia
Chairman Meow has seized the means of purrduction, you mean?
Cosplay for everyone.
- Location
- Illinois
Sometimes it's nice to go back and read a little of the discussion prior to an update for context on what the players meant.
I don't! That's why I say I keep bouncing off and why my occasional forays into thread participation (usually occasioned by some decision point I'm a little interested in) quickly peter to a halt after two or three posts.
But the QM post this time seemed to be calling for some meta commentary on what people do or don't get out of thread participation, so I thought I'd add my two cents.
- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
RexHeller
Title Incoming. Please Hold.
- Location
- Somewhere else.
Good luck ever getting Homura into Fate's outfit.