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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Muramasa said:
Then that basically would mean everything we did in Asunaro to try and convince Hijiri otherwise was pretty much pointless. I refuse to believe that.
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It means that getting through to her is going to be an uphill battle, not that it's impossible. But for Kyubey, turning her against us would be a walk in the park. That means that we're going to have to put in effort, not just ignore her and hope the problem goes away on its own.
 
The Narrator said:
It means that getting through to her is going to be an uphill battle, not that it's impossible. But for Kyubey, turning her against us would be a walk in the park. That means that we're going to have to put in effort, not just ignore her and hope the problem goes away on its own.
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Where did I suggest us to just ignore the problem?

I'm saying stop rushing and give Hijiri some time to cool down.

Let's come back to this tomorrow.
 
Muramasa said:
Then that basically would mean everything we did in Asunaro to try and convince Hijiri otherwise was pretty much pointless. I refuse to believe that.
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Honestly, I kinda do think we failed her pretty damn hard. As far as she's concerned she met us when we had her bound up and her own hated creator had to break her out and from there we made a dumb power play in kicking her out of our telepathic channel, pointlessly antagonized Anri, and completely misunderstood her when she asked (or, possibly "asked": her sincerity or sarcasm in asking for suggestions on what to do still eludes me even now.) what she should do and then verbally sniped at her when we lost control. All together that paints the picture of a very aggressively controlling person, when her whole deal seems to be that she wants to not have her life dictated to her.

About the only things we truly did right was disentangling her from Niko, and not gemming her, the later of which she likely isn't aware of.

Plus my personal experience with heated stuff isn't that time causes one to cool off, it's that the resultant feelings fester until properly addressed.
 
The Phoenixian said:
Plus my personal experience with heated stuff isn't that time causes one to cool off, it's that the resultant feelings fester until properly addressed.
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I've experienced mostly the opposite, but that's also between people who already want to believe the best of eachother. Also, that leads to not discussing things for years at a time. And, given, between people who don't feel particularly inclined to believe the best of eachother, I've seen a lot of... either festering, or willfully trying to drop the entire topic forever and then picking up right back where they dropped off if they need to ever interact again.

How long has it been for Hijiri since we've talked to her? I feel like a little cooldown time, maybe enough time to take a breather and get some sleep and food if possible, would be good, but I agree that leaving it too much longer would be prolly unwise. Has it been a full sleep cycle yet?

I would drop the science in favor of Hijiri if it was fully an either/or choice, although I do feel like at least one "let me poke one more thing for a last idea I just had for like five minutes" would be something there's time for afterwards. Then again. I tend to procrastinate going to sleep until 4pm on accident sometimes. So. Maybe not what we want, unless we do want to ask Firn to write up "test multitasking with chibi!Brina while we try and get real-body sleep".
 
I'm wondering if we really need to contact Tsubaki today. We already have a lot on our mind, so it may be better to wait until tomorrow.
 
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EDIT: So I think Narrator, veByast and I are slightly disagreeing on how to approach the Tsubaki talk, and every other vote is illegal because we're getting only one of SCIENCE! or Social afterwards. :V
Adhoc vote count started by Onmur on May 4, 2018 at 8:23 PM, finished with 137483 posts and 7 votes.
  • [X] After the call to Tsubaki, go to sleep with prime Sabrina while trying to go through the SCIENCE! vote in abeyance with chibi Sabrina.
    -[X] Are we properly rested the next day?
    [X] Try willing the enchanted soft rock to
    -[X] Become something else
    -[X] Attract Grief
    [X] Call Tsubaki. Use formal courtesy. Introduce Mami too.
    -[X] Avoid infohazards.
    -[X] Outline interest in trading "consultancy" for cleansing. References, emptying her Grief Seed. Dead drop possible.
    -[X] Motive - strong group, building safer city, need her experience
    -[X] Upcoming Walpurgisnacht, gathering allies. Describe threat.
    --[X] Her planning considered invaluable.
    --[X] Support role - enchant our weapons?
    [X] Call Hijiri. Be a realist, disarm conflict attempts if needed. Big Sis!Brina
    -[X] Ask how she's doing. Ask to start over with her.
    --[X] Grief levels?
    --[X] Anything she wants to talk about?
    -[X] Offer an update on Anri. She's safe, also detained humanely, and Angry. We did hear her side.
    --[X] You'd like to talk more on that, if she's willing. Telepathy has No tea, No cake. Visit Mitakihara, on our honor.
    -[X] Chibi Brina: Try...
    --[X] Moving in four dimensions. And observing what's out there.
    --[X] Observe Soul Gem in 4D.
    --[X] Leaving your range by flight.
    [x] Tsubaki Mikoto.
    -[x] Introduce self and Mami.
    -[x] Explain powers and desire to help. Tell her that Nadia can verify that we're legit.
    -[x] Ask if there would be a good time to meet in the near future. We can travel there on short notice if need be.
    -[x] Offer of cleansing, refreshing used Grief Seeds, etc., no strings attached.
    -[x] If she's curious why we're interested in her, explain that we're trying to establish good relations with all the magical girls that we can.
    --[x] Why her specifically: we don't know of many magical girls who've survived to adulthood. And there aren't really many adults that magical girls can turn to. We value her wisdom and experience.
    [x] Tsubaki Mikoto.
    -[x] Introduce self and Mami.
    -[x] Explain powers and desire to help. Tell her that Nadia can verify that we're legit.
    -[x] Ask if there would be a good time to meet in the near future. We can travel there on short notice if need be.
    -[x] Offer of cleansing, refreshing used Grief Seeds, etc., no strings attached.
    -[x] If she's curious why we're interested in her, explain that we're trying to establish good relations with all the magical girls that we can.
    --[x] Why her specifically: we don't know of many magical girls who've survived to adulthood. And there aren't really many adults that magical girls can turn to. We value her wisdom and experience.
    [X] Continue Hijiri and SCIENCE per vote in abeyance. Add:
    -[x] Try willing the enchanted soft rock to
    --[X] Become something else
    --[X] Attract Grief
    [x] Tsubaki Mikoto.
    -[x] Introduce self and Mami.
    -[x] Explain powers and desire to help. Tell her that Nadia can verify that we're legit.
    -[x] Ask if there would be a good time to meet in the near future. We can travel there on short notice if need be.
    -[x] Offer of cleansing, refreshing used Grief Seeds, etc., no strings attached.
    -[x] If she's curious why we're interested in her, explain that we're trying to establish good relations with all the magical girls that we can.
    --[x] Why her specifically: we don't know of many magical girls who've survived to adulthood. And there aren't really many adults that magical girls can turn to. We value her wisdom and experience.
    [X] Continue Hijiri and SCIENCE per vote in abeyance. Add:
    -[x] Try willing the enchanted soft rock to
    --[X] Become something else
    --[X] Attract Grief
    [X] Continue vote in abeyance
    [x] Tsubaki Mikoto.
    -[x] Goals:
    --[x] Establish a relationship; you can solve her canonical issues, she's probably a responsible adult and you need as many of those as you can find.
    --[x] Investigate to find out how close the situation is to your metaknowledge.
    -[x] Possibly useful particulars:
    --[x] Introduce yourself and Mami.
    --[x] Standard speech: You want to help meguca, you have powers that do it, you understand larger ramifications and are building a network, Nadia mentioned her as being reasonable.
    --[x] Offer to fly over for face-to-face and cleansing.
    ---[x] Use this to feel out their grief seed situation?
    [X] Tsubaki:
    -[X] Introduce yourselves, with Nadia's help.
    -[X] Inquire about Tsubaki, show interest in her skills and achievements, and curiosity about her life.
    -[X] Once appropriate, talk about Magical Girl problems, your powers, goals and achievements so far.
    --[X] Standard Grief cleansing offer.
    --[X] Talk about the specific problems that could be better helped by an adult that Magical Girls could relate to, and your hopes Tsubaki could help.
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Onmur said:
and every other vote is illegal because we're getting only one of SCIENCE! or Social afterwards.
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I'll point out that it's not that they're flat illegal:

Firnagzen said:
Basically, what I'm saying is you have to choose between doing science and other things, in most cases. Also, granted, you can keep requesting more posts, but I would actually like to wrap up the day.
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Merely ill-advised, as our merciful god becomes weary of this particular six-month-long day.

That said, I suspect some of the hedging between SCIENCE! and Hijiri is because there's a bit of consternation about the appropriate timing of trying to speak again with the latter, without either leaving her to stew and possibly spiral, or push too hard and get Even More Hostility.

Or, at least, that's where my hedging is coming from. Also my tendency myself to do "just one more thing" before I go to bed at suddenly 8am, which perhaps Firn and Sabrina would rather not follow the example of. Still, I'll be ready to drop the SCIENCE! from my vote for now, if a vote I can get behind comes up. I'm with Redshirt, let's see a consolidated vote for the Tsubaki issue, at least, then let's see if there can be some compelling thoughts about the Hijiri-communication front. Or word of whether we want try and push through a "chibi!Brina tries to science while regular Sabrina sleeps" or a "one last thing before I go to bed" SCIENCE alongside the Hijiri-call, or not, at least.
 
I'd personally like to focus on Tsubaki (you know, the total unknown) and Chibi-brina SCIENCE! (multitasking while we sleep is interesting, exploring 4d space is amazing, testing range...too important and we were already in the middle of it), and put off Hijiri just slightly..... because ffs its not even been 24 hours, and she was left with a perfectly clear Gem. Are there any examples of a clean gem spiralling nearly that fast (it usually seems a multi-day or multi-week affair) ? Do people seriously think her "i am free and clear but oh what about the girl i barely know or my vengeance?" status is anything near as bad as say.... Mami finding out the witch-bomb without extensive prepwork prior, or Sayaka having her longtime crush crumble to nothing due to her best friend's competition, or anything , such that we can't wait a freaking day or two for fear of Hijiri instant-witching while we aren't looking?
 
Redshirt Army said:
Homura still needs sleep, and she's had more incentive and time then most to figure out how not to need it.
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Alternatively, it starts costing more magic than it's worth to stave off sleep the longer you go without it. Since we are still running on squishy human hardware until we hijack the processes on purpose with our magical bluetooth powers.

Edit: Also, possibly staving off the physical effects of sleep deprivation doesn't do anything for the mental health effects. Which could be doubly dangerous for meguca.
 
So, we should simply sideline Chibi!Brina, not do anything at all intentional to her. Free action, zero time budget, zero word budget for Firn. We go to bed, and try to do a quick procedure with her in the morning, provided she doesn't dispel while we sleep. Or become a victim of Feathers while we are unconscious... Or become a conduit for Feathers while we are unconscious.


Are people cool about what we need to do with Hijiri, as a top level goal? Because I'm getting a sense some folks are not?

IMHO, we are mostly forcing a relationship. By necessity, on our end. Failing will have some negative consequences for both of us. It could benefit her if she agrees, but she has zero motivation ATM.

We could supply one of several positive motivations, and maybe she will reciprocate. Perhaps she can't understand Sabrina?

The first positive motivation we can offer is "Sabrina is committing effort to Hijiri." The reason we need to cycle sooner is to display value. How shall we otherwise display the fact that we will value her? All Magical stuff aside, she had run away from home just before we met her. Think about that too.
 
So if we did go for SCIENCE! rather than talking with Hijiri, I would feel more comfortable voting also for the SCIENCE! part of vote this round, specially with an option to break to voting if the talk with Tsubaki would require more player input.
 
??? The call to Hijiri certainly wouldn't be long. It might be 35 seconds of us whispering telepathically to her - with silence as a response. Or yelling and a hang-up. Or wailing, and a hang-up. What would she have to say at length?

The SCIENCE remaining is also kinda short. Chibi!Brina is operational ATM. Our Rock has already been charged up, this isn't 15 minutes of work, even.

Tsubaki might be a six minute call. Since we aren't meeting tonight, how could it go longer? It is a generic 'cold call.'

I am not on the same page here.
Onmur said:
So if we did go for SCIENCE! rather than talking with Hijiri, I would feel more comfortable voting also for the SCIENCE! part of vote this round, specially with an option to break to voting if the talk with Tsubaki would require more player input.
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HeroCycle said:
So, we should simply sideline Chibi!Brina, not do anything at all intentional to her. Free action, zero time budget, zero word budget for Firn. We go to bed, and try to do a quick procedure with her in the morning, provided she doesn't dispel while we sleep. Or become a victim of Feathers while we are unconscious... Or become a conduit for Feathers while we are unconscious.


Are people cool about what we need to do with Hijiri, as a top level goal? Because I'm getting a sense some folks are not?
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I feel like I missed some thought process of yours, as I don't know how you arrived at 'we should simply sideline Chibi!Brina" /unless/ you are already taking as granted that we are going to have a talk with Hijiri be part of the rest of the night (since they are mutually exclusive by Firn's preference).

I at least just said I wasn't inclined to sideline Chibi!Science, AND I am not cool with contacting Hijiri tonight.

So many some canon examples from more knowledgeable readers of how likely "full cleanse to dangerous spiral" even is in the timespan at issue? Since thats a point of contention.

If Grief status isn't an issue, I honestly have no idea why people want to rush to re-contact Hijiri /tonight/ when we already seemed to exhaust our options with her for the moment (its why she fled) and none of the suggestions are really new.... other than the time-dilation thing of it being weeks or months for players, which all the debaters Know and are better than to let it influence them this strongly.
 
The Chibi will be doing a durability test while we sleep, and don't use it. Action, through inaction. I thought it was a useful gambit.

Hijiri might respond better to "less proper" interaction. Her childhood is sick, by all reports.

It isn't Grief spiral that I foresee. The opportunity to be present for her might count.

How do you think she wants to be motivated? Instead of planning Sabrina, just for a moment try to plan for what Hijiri wants?

Kaizuki said:
Muuuuuuu, I just want to hug Mami, nya...
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IIRC, you now have your own via timeshare? lol!
 
WE ARE THE BORG. YOUR VOTE WILL BE ASSIMILATED. WE WILL ADD YOUR VOTE'S BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.



[x] Tsubaki Mikoto.
-[x] Introduce self and Mami with Nadia's help.
-[X] Inquire about Tsubaki, show interest in her skills and achievements, and curiosity about her life.
--[x] Use this to feel out differences from metaknowledge and urgency of Grief Seed situation, if practical?
-[x] Explain powers and desire to help. Tell her that Nadia can verify that we're legit.
-[x] Ask if there would be a good time to meet in the near future. We can travel there on short notice if need be.
-[x] Offer of cleansing, refreshing used Grief Seeds, etc., no strings attached.
-[x] If she's curious why we're interested in her, explain that we're trying to build a network and establish good relations with all the magical girls that we can.
--[x] We don't know of many magical girls who've survived to adulthood. And there aren't really many adults that magical girls can turn to. We value her wisdom and experience.
 
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