Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Er.
It's very important to keep in mind that we, the players, and Sabrina in-character, have very little power over Homura. The singular reason that Oriko and Kirika aren't dead are because Homura trusts us to handle them.
But if you start hanmering at that trust by saying "actually the house arrest was insecure the whole time, lel", then the ultimate conclusion of that line of reasoning is Homura's just murdering them, and we can't stop her.
Yes, it's pretty obvious if you think about it reasonably - but that doesn't matter. Homura is not reasonable about the topic of Oriko. She got massivly upset the time we took Oriko out to buy groceries, despite the fact that logically, she's far less dangerous being escorted through town by us then being left to her own devices at home.
Yes.
Hell, Madoka said so - she agreed we did the right thing by not telling Sayaka about Oriko immediately because we were concerned she'd contract.
Okay, but I think it's past time to have a straight talk with Homura about this rather than trying to compromise on half-measures that don't accomplish what Homura wants anyway. Sabrina believes that she has brought Oriko "on side" and that she will cooperate with us now rather than being an antagonist. If this is true, then there is nothing to be gained by keeping them prisoner and only marginal gains to be made from tracking them (as a means of verifying their good intentions). So try to convince Homura that it's true.
I think that is giving Homura far too little credit. Yes she's not purely reasonable on the topic, but that doesn't make her incapable of seeing reason. It just takes more effort. At a certain point she has to be led to confront her own unreasonableness. She's not a bad girl; not a murderer by inclination. I think she can come to believe that Oriko can be controlled without captivity if Sabrina makes the case.
- Location
- Potato land
What is the true state of our friendship with Homura, in your view? What is it that we're supposed to tell her in order to come clean? "I think you're well-intentioned, but traumatized by your ordeal and more than a little paranoid, so your judgement on a lot of issues is suspect. Also, your looping progressively makes Madoka even more of a target for QB."?
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
^This.
I myself may not always be happy with what we do (As I usually prefer the route that leads to the most empowerment) but there is a world of difference between our "I'm manipulating you for your own interests" and Kyuubey's widespread deception for the sake of something neither individual magical girls nor even humanity as a whole have any great stake in.
- Location
- universe
That's fair enough, i guess.
I just have this gut feeling that the more bad we do in order to succeed, the closer we come to the kyubey's 'sacrifice girls for energy' dealio.
I mean, minus the end part, yes?
If it's the truth it's the truth, and regardless of how insulting it is to hear, that's far less insulting than refusing to air it and letting it sizzle under the surface, deteriorating Sabrina's relationship with her overtime.
Homura isn't dumb.
mCooperative
meanderingCephalopod
- Location
- Back in Mitakihara after like 1000 years.
Now, for my actual response to the state of affairs!
The first part of which is "Firn is a merciful god" and also "that went amazingly well all things considered". I think we've managed to explain ourselves well enough that we're past the point of people potentially storming out and/or thinking we're subverted and/or shooting the prisoners! Hopefully! Optimism! Praise Madokami!
... so we, like Oriko, have mastered the ability to have Serious Discussions convincingly while wrapped in all the hugs? The greatest of victories, it is ours.
I think this is a very interesting way Firn gave for Sabrina to say this bit, actually. Adds to the small pile of dialogue floating around that could ping Sayaka's "something is up" sense, I think, even if she doesn't consciously notice or remember it- because before Sabrina, there was no one 'circle', in this timeline. Mami and Sayaka and Madoka were about to start up the local meguca conspiracy circle, yeah- but Hitomi was entirely outside of it, just as Mami was outside of the Madoka-Sayaka-Hitomi friendship. And Homura was closer to being Mami and Sayaka's enemy, than anything else, and more-or-less unassociated with Madoka (pfft, Homura, unassociated with Madoka) and Hitomi.
And like, if Sabrina had been directing this line to Sayaka or Mami, I think it would be easily assumed she's talking about the meguca-circle of Mami-Madoka-Sayaka. But even though she's talking about/to the group as a whole, Sabrina says it to Homura. Who wouldn't notice anything wrong with that, I think, because she's been looping so long with these people, that even though Madoka is several orders of magnitude the highest priority and everyone else is more or less a liability/obstacle with some sentimental value, I suspect part of her does loosely qualify them all as her liabilities/obstacles, and thus obviously folded in to a common circle of people.
And I was about to add some stuff to that, but I'm also pretty sure I just remembered that Japanese has more specific ways of saying "you" than just "you", which alter my conclusions. Though- whether Sabrina's "your circle" was phrased to mean "the group as a whole's circle" or "Homura's circle", probably the former, either would emphasize some of my points above.
Meh, probably not super noticeably, but I get hung up on the implications of grammatical minutiae.
Actually, I was going back through stuff, formulating the rest of this post because these get really long and I'm not sure I have a better way to express the morass that is the conclusions I start getting to every time a new chapter happens and I start screeching about Firn being a merciful god, but-
Sayaka, about organizing her powers. If we get her a Thinker power, I guess the grammatical minutiae may gain some more significance to watching, than they have right now.
... when we eventually Witchbomb Sayaka, this'll prolly come up, won't it. I wonder what she'll think of us then. Think she'll regret her morbid curiosity? }=o\ Well, at least it did get across how seriously we are taking all this, I think. And... it is good to know that Sayaka knows us well enough to know the magnitude of us making a threat like that.
... that was surprisingly painless. Huh. Was a bit worried we'd have to resort to making obscure and incomprehensible facial expressions that attempt to desperately imply "drop it" without reiterating the words. Like an old Direct TV commercial- "Asking about Homura's past makes Homura ignore your question. When Homura ignores your question, Sabrina steps up to try and field it instead. When Sabrina tries to field it instead, she's not always convincing. When Sabrina isn't convincing, she resorts to obscure and incomprehensible facial expressions to communicate her argument. Don't make Sabrina resort to obscure and incomprehensible facial expressions to communicate her argument. Switch to Direct TV (and watch Madoka Magica so you can stop asking Homura about her past)." }=o)
Also, it's always nice hearing that we are their weirdo, even if we already know it. Reassuring to hear, after the way this conversation started out. It's just... nice. Sayaka just accepting 'yes you are weirdos and while I have problems with some of what you say sometimes, you and Homura being weirdos aren't even part of the problem'. And interesting, considering Sayaka's usual early-loop reaction to Homura's weirdness. Our Sayaka has come something of a ways, yeah?
We should give Homura a break from hard conversations for a bit, after this one winds down. Like, at some point, we might should have that private timestop talk about the continuity of people between loops, and what they may or may not have learned from that, and how they may change, or how they may demonstrate new qualities (e.g. Mami) when anomalous factors (e.g. Sabrina) are added to the mix. But I think that can wait for another segue, at another time. This whole afternoon has been a lot of ups and downs of stress for her, I think. I feel like... we should just feed our Homura, and then leave it up to her, if she wants to pursue any other heavy topics tonight.
Actually, I was going back through where we left off before Real Talk McConversation started up, because I was checking about the feeding of the Homu, and while the day planner has "ask about past loops" for evening plans, if we wanted to still approach that thought, but evaluate carefully whether we actually wanted it to go into heavy conversation or not... Well, we still haven't asked what Homura has in that shield from past loops, given... the rocks... and the mops...
Also. On another matter. We still haven't actually watched the video of our fight yet. If the conversational segue eventually turns into "so what do we do now" as opposed to "time for Sayaka to go eat dinner"- and in timestop, I'm not sure we've run up against the latter yet- then I guess we have the fight video to take a breather on.
And now I'm going to end this post because it's preventing me from replying to the actual discussion that it's about to interrupt!
... sorry about that bit.
Edited for spacing because whyyyy....
The first part of which is "Firn is a merciful god" and also "that went amazingly well all things considered". I think we've managed to explain ourselves well enough that we're past the point of people potentially storming out and/or thinking we're subverted and/or shooting the prisoners! Hopefully! Optimism! Praise Madokami!
... so we, like Oriko, have mastered the ability to have Serious Discussions convincingly while wrapped in all the hugs? The greatest of victories, it is ours.
I think this is a very interesting way Firn gave for Sabrina to say this bit, actually. Adds to the small pile of dialogue floating around that could ping Sayaka's "something is up" sense, I think, even if she doesn't consciously notice or remember it- because before Sabrina, there was no one 'circle', in this timeline. Mami and Sayaka and Madoka were about to start up the local meguca conspiracy circle, yeah- but Hitomi was entirely outside of it, just as Mami was outside of the Madoka-Sayaka-Hitomi friendship. And Homura was closer to being Mami and Sayaka's enemy, than anything else, and more-or-less unassociated with Madoka (pfft, Homura, unassociated with Madoka) and Hitomi.
And like, if Sabrina had been directing this line to Sayaka or Mami, I think it would be easily assumed she's talking about the meguca-circle of Mami-Madoka-Sayaka. But even though she's talking about/to the group as a whole, Sabrina says it to Homura. Who wouldn't notice anything wrong with that, I think, because she's been looping so long with these people, that even though Madoka is several orders of magnitude the highest priority and everyone else is more or less a liability/obstacle with some sentimental value, I suspect part of her does loosely qualify them all as her liabilities/obstacles, and thus obviously folded in to a common circle of people.
And I was about to add some stuff to that, but I'm also pretty sure I just remembered that Japanese has more specific ways of saying "you" than just "you", which alter my conclusions. Though- whether Sabrina's "your circle" was phrased to mean "the group as a whole's circle" or "Homura's circle", probably the former, either would emphasize some of my points above.
Meh, probably not super noticeably, but I get hung up on the implications of grammatical minutiae.
Actually, I was going back through stuff, formulating the rest of this post because these get really long and I'm not sure I have a better way to express the morass that is the conclusions I start getting to every time a new chapter happens and I start screeching about Firn being a merciful god, but-
Sayaka, about organizing her powers. If we get her a Thinker power, I guess the grammatical minutiae may gain some more significance to watching, than they have right now.
... when we eventually Witchbomb Sayaka, this'll prolly come up, won't it. I wonder what she'll think of us then. Think she'll regret her morbid curiosity? }=o\ Well, at least it did get across how seriously we are taking all this, I think. And... it is good to know that Sayaka knows us well enough to know the magnitude of us making a threat like that.
... that was surprisingly painless. Huh. Was a bit worried we'd have to resort to making obscure and incomprehensible facial expressions that attempt to desperately imply "drop it" without reiterating the words. Like an old Direct TV commercial- "Asking about Homura's past makes Homura ignore your question. When Homura ignores your question, Sabrina steps up to try and field it instead. When Sabrina tries to field it instead, she's not always convincing. When Sabrina isn't convincing, she resorts to obscure and incomprehensible facial expressions to communicate her argument. Don't make Sabrina resort to obscure and incomprehensible facial expressions to communicate her argument. Switch to Direct TV (and watch Madoka Magica so you can stop asking Homura about her past)." }=o)
Also, it's always nice hearing that we are their weirdo, even if we already know it. Reassuring to hear, after the way this conversation started out. It's just... nice. Sayaka just accepting 'yes you are weirdos and while I have problems with some of what you say sometimes, you and Homura being weirdos aren't even part of the problem'. And interesting, considering Sayaka's usual early-loop reaction to Homura's weirdness. Our Sayaka has come something of a ways, yeah?
We should give Homura a break from hard conversations for a bit, after this one winds down. Like, at some point, we might should have that private timestop talk about the continuity of people between loops, and what they may or may not have learned from that, and how they may change, or how they may demonstrate new qualities (e.g. Mami) when anomalous factors (e.g. Sabrina) are added to the mix. But I think that can wait for another segue, at another time. This whole afternoon has been a lot of ups and downs of stress for her, I think. I feel like... we should just feed our Homura, and then leave it up to her, if she wants to pursue any other heavy topics tonight.
Actually, I was going back through where we left off before Real Talk McConversation started up, because I was checking about the feeding of the Homu, and while the day planner has "ask about past loops" for evening plans, if we wanted to still approach that thought, but evaluate carefully whether we actually wanted it to go into heavy conversation or not... Well, we still haven't asked what Homura has in that shield from past loops, given... the rocks... and the mops...
Also. On another matter. We still haven't actually watched the video of our fight yet. If the conversational segue eventually turns into "so what do we do now" as opposed to "time for Sayaka to go eat dinner"- and in timestop, I'm not sure we've run up against the latter yet- then I guess we have the fight video to take a breather on.
And now I'm going to end this post because it's preventing me from replying to the actual discussion that it's about to interrupt!
... sorry about that bit.
Edited for spacing because whyyyy....
Last edited:
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
BTW,
[] Tracking.
-[] Mami Ribbons.
-[] Sayaka could ask/hypnotize/mind whammy the local fauna into watching O&K.
--[] She could watch over Mitakihara, not just over O&K.
--[] Consult the Pleiades about it?
-[] Cameras: We could Grief Hax something to watch the footage? Mami could help with this?
-[] Hiring someone with appropriate powers, like Taniguchi?
-[] Asking Yuki to claim wherever we move O&K to, in addition to the place Homura picked?
[] Oriko's crime.
-[] Mention your scheduled talk with the Shizukis this weekend; touch on your plan to tell consenting meguca's parents about magic, the benefits of doing so...
--[] And the possibility of Oriko confessing her crime to the Mikis.
-[] Propose, if we're moving Oriko, that her mansion be sold and the money be used to pay the Mikis.
[] Thank Homura and Sayaka for hearing you out.
-[] Personally, we believe we're doing the right thing. Still, we'll be careful, and extra careful for their sakes.
--[] Potenitially: mention Oriko's fears.
---[] Her own foreseen death.
---[] The 'Feathers' threat; her belief we're vital in stopping it, and her admittance she'll only stay put as long as we show we're dealing with it.
Poor Homu, what a terrifying thought.
[] Tracking.
-[] Mami Ribbons.
-[] Sayaka could ask/hypnotize/mind whammy the local fauna into watching O&K.
--[] She could watch over Mitakihara, not just over O&K.
--[] Consult the Pleiades about it?
-[] Cameras: We could Grief Hax something to watch the footage? Mami could help with this?
-[] Hiring someone with appropriate powers, like Taniguchi?
-[] Asking Yuki to claim wherever we move O&K to, in addition to the place Homura picked?
[] Oriko's crime.
-[] Mention your scheduled talk with the Shizukis this weekend; touch on your plan to tell consenting meguca's parents about magic, the benefits of doing so...
--[] And the possibility of Oriko confessing her crime to the Mikis.
-[] Propose, if we're moving Oriko, that her mansion be sold and the money be used to pay the Mikis.
[] Thank Homura and Sayaka for hearing you out.
-[] Personally, we believe we're doing the right thing. Still, we'll be careful, and extra careful for their sakes.
--[] Potenitially: mention Oriko's fears.
---[] Her own foreseen death.
---[] The 'Feathers' threat; her belief we're vital in stopping it, and her admittance she'll only stay put as long as we show we're dealing with it.
Last edited:
- Location
- Potato land
Personally, I'm fine with half-measures right now. Oriko and Kirika have been behaving exceptionally well, so I'd like to give them something to reinforce that behaviour, be it more freedom, relocation, a path to make amends with Sayaka, or even just an end date for their arrest.
I also don't think it's possible to convince Homura of this right now. I do think that it will be possible after we beat Walpurgisnacht, and I'm fine waiting until then to have that conversation. I can also see why others may not be satisfied with such a position, given how slowly quest time passes.
I think that would be incredibly harmful. It's putting everything on a knife's edge. What options does Homura have after hearing this? She can either distance herself from Sabrina, to the detriment of both of them; or she can completely surrender all of her agency and accept that Sabrina always knows better, like a cult leader. It's an awful choice to be forced to make, especially given that Sabrina's successes have given Homura hope for the first time in many loops.
I honestly think I'd rather potentialbomb her. That, at least, we can help her process, and it's something she can rightfully resent us for not telling her, as it impacts her future decisions massively.
- Location
- ⇙
That went a lot better than I expected. Everyone seems to agree that we could at least get the Kures to move, which should already help a bit. Even if we can't think of any constant tracking or surveillance methods right now, we could at least accompany them on shopping trips every now and then, while maintaining the house arrest, if Homura and Sayaka agree.
I think it would be a shame to missing talking about the end game on house arrest. They'll be under house arrest until.... until what?
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
As far as tracking and the reviewing footage at the end of the update goes, there's also the old point of seeing if there are any refugees or potential hires we trust enough to watch them. Or non-magical adults, but I'm not sure whether that sale is easier or harder.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Using Sayaka's animal whisperer powers to provide tracking of Oriko is a pretty neat idea, imo.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
How is this meaningfully different from a bodycam? Someone still has to review what the animals say after all, and if that someone is Sayaka then I doubt she'd be willing to spend the time needed to do it.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
The animals could be hypnotize/mind enhanced into reporting if O&K go anywhere they shouldn't.
The point is that it's the animals doing the boring parts. They're like, freely available VIs, we just need to grab and use them.
Last edited:
mCooperative
meanderingCephalopod
- Location
- Back in Mitakihara after like 1000 years.
... we're going to make Sayaka into a SCIENCE! Spark by the time we're done giving her ALL THE POWAHZ and bringing her into the de-Witching project, aren't we.
... I'm fine with this. }=o)
- Location
- Sweden
Well, technically, Oriko has the ability to have Serious Discussions while giving all the hugs.
I just wanna point this out: Sabrina already did things that may be considered wrong in the the past for the greater good, threatening Kirika, for example, that even she thinks was wrong; that doesn't mean Sabrina shouldn't question herself whether what she doing is right or not, it's really bad doing bad thing and thinking they are good things (like Oriko), and worse if you do them because you haven't even really thought about whether they're actually good things, or not; but we need to keep in mind that there is a chance we may actually need to do more wrong things in the future, what Sabrina needs is to ask herself how wrong is she willing to do? And, is "manipulating" her friends this way acceptable?
Also, kyubey greater good is something nobody cares about, our greater good is the wellbeing of every magical girl, as long we don't become unempathetic about it, or start believing it's ok to sacrifice the few for the many, you cannot compare Sabrina to him.
Edit: and yeah, I know this post probably comes off as very cynical (sorry about that), and Sabrina probably wouldn't think this way, but she isn't naive either.
Edit2: and about the " "manipulating " " bit, I'm not saying either that we've been handling it the verybest way, by any means, but everybody here seems to a have a different idea of what constitutes as manipulation, and I think that first we probably should come to an agreement about why what we're doing is bad, or why it isn't, before asking ourselves whether we should change it or not.
Edit3: ugh, this was a word vomit, I just think there's merit in having a longer discussion before reaching a conclusion, I didn't mean to sound antagonistic, sorry; you DO have good points
Last edited:
- Location
- London, 1935. August.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to very, very strongly disagree with this sentiment.
Our primary priority is exactly the same as Homura's - protecting Madoka. We also share most of the priorities that currently fall below that one, i.e. protecting Mami, Homura and our other friends. The only serious difference in our goals is a few extra additions, things like "save and protect Oriko and Kirika" and "save and protect as many of the Asunaro people as possible" and "save and protect the rest of the meguca population" somewhere below where Homura seems to end her list. However in cases like this, we are arguing that these lower priorities that Homura doesn't care about don't interfere with our higher priorities - which is, in fact, something we believe, otherwise we wouldn't be pursuing them.
Not only that, we have been very clear about having these extra priorities. We have explained in fairly explicit detail why we believe that they don't interfere with our top priority and what the evidence for that is. We have gone out of our way to avoid being manipulative. We even generally inform people and apologize when there is information that we are basing our reasoning on that we cannot give them. So it's kind of baffling when you try to say we're manipulating and ignoring Homura's perspective and holding back important information. What are we holding back? That we think she's paranoid? Perhaps we do, but that's not really a reason why we're asking to change the situation with O&K, we're doing it because it helps accomplish one of our goals without damaging our other ones.
I'm just...having a lot of trouble seeing where you're coming from with this. I do think it would be a good idea to acknowledge that we have a weird sense of time, but beyond that I'm just not seeing what the problem is. All of our "ways of manipulating the other girls into accepting a person who they believe has wronged them" are just us trying to get other people to accept evidence that we have accepted and that they didn't have until we brought it up. Your reading just seems to be in massively bad faith to Sabrina.
EDIT: Now that I think of it, I think I can boil my issue down to this. You seem to suggest that we're presenting this as being in Homura's best interests and that that is untrue and we don't believe it. However, we have made exactly one argument that this is in Homura's best interest, and we only argued that to the degree that we believed it - we mentioned that Oriko and Kirika's wish magic have been useful in the past and could be useful in the future. It wasn't a particularly major or foundational part of our argument. All of our other arguments have been that this is in our, as in Sabrina's, interests, to serve her own goals, but that they are not in conflict to Homura's goals. And we have been very explicit about what those goals are and why we believe what we do.
Last edited:
mCooperative
meanderingCephalopod
- Location
- Back in Mitakihara after like 1000 years.
To address this point in general, because this particular post did make me sit down and write out the reasons I do actually have for this (for which I both thank and curse you, I need to be doing homework, mwargh! but I really like sitting down and making sure my thoughts are consistent...), and not specifically to single you out...
... because we have a severely limited ability to contain the folks who ripped up downtown, and in a pragmatic sense, we need to focus on taking care of and keeping clean our own metaphorical house first? Among which O&K are counted. Like, at least some of this comes down to social maneuvering and how we make our way in the world, and how that appears to the wider meguca community, such as it is. Oriko and Kirika are our problem; they're in our city; they've hurt our people. We have the ability to respond to what O&K did, practically, because they're working with us about the house arrest thing and such. And it's within what I suspect the wider meguca world sees as our purview.
Actually, I might argue that the fact that O&K are basically our people, acknowledge they were beaten, and aren't giving us trouble, is a part of why there need to be at least some consequences to what they did- even though, yes, as this whole discussion is about, we need to make sure those consequences are proportionate, appropriate, and fair.
We go around, and intervene where we can, and are getting a rep for wanting to save all meguca, and also making everyone's problems our business. But it's also pretty clear, I think, looking in, that we don't yet have the capacity to enforce rule or law or punishment on outside groups. The world is not expecting us to go track down Iowa and stop them, for example. (Though, of course, we're half expecting Iowa to make themselves our business such that we're required to stop them.) And also, I think we'd seem more than a little hard to work with, if we insisted on exacting punishment on outside groups for things they did before we make it very clear to them that if they don't want to be our enemies, don't do the thing. (While, yes, the things we're saying not to do are general things Not To Do, given the nature of the meguca society Kyubey has encouraged, we need to be approaching it from a different baseline of "things meguca have previously needed to do or let slide in order to not die" and the mindset that baseline has formed. The same way that, I think it was said earlier in the quest- Mami's standards about hunting down all familiars are very high, and not everyone is lucky enough to have the power to take the high road there.)
But, in my estimation, the pseudo-feudal thing meguca culture has going on does expect us to handle our locals, if we're planning on being a big name. How we handle our locals and friends will say a lot about us and our conduct in the world at large. Again, we're not expected to be able to police outside groups; it's to our credit that we try, to a certain extent, and a part of why Sabrina is becoming known for her helping-people-thing, but other meguca will be aware that at this stage, we can't really enforce our standards on the world at large. Not even our allies, necessarily- hence how we're handling Sendai and Fukushima in comparison to O&K. However, we can enforce those standards in-house, so to speak. Our decision about how to handle O&K, and what consequences they face, tells the world what conduct we find acceptable- both from our friends, and from ourselves.
It will tell them, for example, that as a group, Mitakihara doesn't condone "ends justifies the means" as a motive for arson or assault. A fair, considered, and proportionate response to these well-intentioned-crimes, however, says that we are not inflexible or unreasonable, and also that we don't just go around executing people or being an unempathetic The Man in a world where emotions are literally life. It hopefully implies we can be trusted with justice, and to be kind, where we can, but also to not set aside legitimate grievances in the long term for expedience. That we will do our best to keep in consideration the motives behind the acts, without discarding the results of and responses to the actions themselves. The fact that these consequences are being applied to O&K, who are cooperating with them, and who have nevertheless also been visibly associated with our group as 'our people' in some sense, communicates that this is at least partially a shared concept of justice within our group. (This is also part of why being consistent with justice, now and in the future, is important.) And it makes the statement that 'our people' are not exempt from the standards we are setting, and that we don't just let people off because they're our friends. (Which is something important for meguca looking to be our allies in the future to know, too.) Hopefully, it also communicates we don't come down harder on people just because we don't like them (re: Homura and Sayaka's obvious antipathy for O&K).
Basically, what we're doing here with O&K, and even with Anri and Sendai and Fukushima, intentionally or not, is setting our standards of conduct, and declaring them both to the world at large, and to our friends- and to Sabrina. As a thread, we're still forming Sabrina and who she is, after all.
And, given, we might as a thread have some disagreements on what those standards need to be. But that's my take, at least, on the larger question of why we're not just releasing O&K, putting aside Homura and Sayaka's objections and assuming we are certain O&K are on our side now. Obviously, Homura and Sayaka's objections (and by extent, for that matter, all our friends' objections and thoughts in general) form a big part of our full and actual reasoning, but those objections and our willingness to hear them are just as much a part of the standards of How Sabrina Behaves And Can Be Expected To Act, as I believe the responses of the wider meguca world and our reactions there are.
So, basically, we're striking a balance between proportionate punishment, rehabilitation, not disregarding our friends' concerns, and The Ramifications Of Our Actions In The Greater Megucalogical Context. And this is my assessment of how we're doing on that.
... possibly just an assessment of my own thoughts about the matter, but I dunno, it feels like this is what some other people have been getting at too?
Minor edits for formatting, commas, clarity, etc, because wow it's hard to catch those when a post gets long
Last edited:
- Location
- universe
The general sense i've gotten from reading Homura's responses in the past is that she believes we're working with her to prevent Oriko from having any kind of opportunity to harm Madoka, but in thread and Sabrina's thought process, everyone's working very hard to come up with ways to loosen Oriko from those bounds.
Whether or not we explicitly say that this is in Homuras interests is of no importance, as at the end of the day it's clear to me that she believes we're on her side and trusts us to remain so - And on her side means dropping this issue like a hot potato.
If i were Homura and had access to this thread, i'd be pretty fucking worried about Sabrina's intentions right now. In fact i'd feel betrayed on multiple levels.
- Location
- The Outer Plane Of Munchkinry.
Use one to lie down in Mamis lap while she lays down in ours?
Or we could use robots; both with and without magic use.The animals could be hypnotize/mind enhanced into reporting if O&K go anywhere they shouldn't.
The point is that it's the animals doing the boring parts. They're like, freely available VIs, we just need to grab and use them.
On a side note; i can't help but think that buying the land off of those two, in return for free housing at our Mamigold hotel, which we would then use to buld said Mamigold hotel, would be a perfectly valid solution to this problem.
We could ask Niko to create a magica girl radar that we can monitorize wirelessly, and add it to Oriko and Kirikas's trackers to make sure they're not conspirating with other magical girls behind our backs, we could give ones to Madoka and Hitomi, too, for safety.