Remove ads

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Reader mode
Script Mak3r said:
Don't worry, my plan for the first tests is to do so from behind cover. First test, to make sure it doesn't just blow up (and before I've spent the time making the trigger mechanism) will probably involve a fuse, and the percussion cap tests will no doubt include a long string tied to the trigger. Likely helping with the first point (whether or not it can handle the stresses) is that it's fairly small; 9mm is a handgun caliber.

Wonder if Mami had to take such precautions with her muskets...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Mami was super careful and tested her new guns in Witch Barriers. :V
 
I've thought about it, and I don't think the Pleiades being upset is even the main issue with letting Hijiri go. I think the main issue is that if we let her go, that's it for Hijiri, there's very little we can do for her at that point. Even ignoring the possibility of her coming back and causing trouble for the Pleiades, the best we can hope for is that hijiri eventually overcomes her problems and becomes a happy, well adjusted magical girl, albeit one with regrets. Given the setting I doubt it would actually go that well, but even if it does she would still be happier in Asunaro.

For all that we joke that Asunaro is a terrible place, it actually is a pretty nice city for Hijiri to live in. The Pleiades are friendly and willing to forgive her, her family is there, and it's close enough to us that clear seeds are easy to come by. Coupled with therapy from Sabrina and the Pleiades, she could get over her problems much faster than she would otherwise. She could even afford to be a normal girl if we gave her a clear seed.

If we let her go, we are essentially giving up on all of that. There may be some argument that gemming her would make that impossible anyway, but I don't actually think that's true. The way I see it, we actually have three possible ways of dealing with a post gem Hijiri, most of which are not mutually exclusive.

The first thing we can do is circumvent the lichbomb entirely by just not telling her what we did or claiming we knocked her out. It might not work, but it's worth a try, and if it succeeds the problem gets solved right there.

If she does learn about the lichbomb, the second thing we can do is to give her a clear seed. That effectively eliminates any risk of her witching out, so the only way she could die from this is if she went fully suicidal. Say what you will about Hijiri, I don't think she's so mentally fragile she would actually kill herself especially with proper social.

The last thing we can do is to talk to her. Regardless of what anyone wants from this choice, I think everyone would like an opportunity to really talk with Hijiri. The entire time we've had her with us we've been trying to social her, but its mostly been ineffective due to poor timing. No matter what it would be important to not only talk to her but to do so at the right time. If she does get lichbombed then I would recommend talking to her immediately after the bomb, and after she's had time to cool down in order to maximize the strength of the argument. Early on, we should definitely point the blame where it belongs: at Kyubey

The only way to achieve the best outcome is to theme Hijiri and work through the consequences. It will be difficult, but it is possible, and I believe we can do it. At the very least, if we don't try, then we've failed already.
 
She attacked people and stole things. When she was caught, we gave her the benefit of the doubt and huge amount of leeway while trying to help her, and she was apparently lying to us and coordinating with her co-conspirator the entire time, and now she's attempting to escape. And we're going to let her go because... what? She might throw a tantrum? Let her. She'll tire herself out eventually and maybe then she'll actually listen, because clearly she's not listening to us now.

People seem to think that if we gem her, she'll become irrevocably homicidal. If it were that easy to turn her into a homicidal maniac, then she must be pretty unstable. And if not, then I don't see any reason to not use a painless, harmless and completely humane method of knocking her out to keep her in custody.

This is the same person who, in another timeline, unleashed Evil Nuts on the population that mutated people into monsters. That had nothing to do with the Freezer or Niko, she just did it for the evilz. This Hijiri hasn't yet done that, but she hasn't done anything to earn our trust, either. Do we really think that if we let her go, she's just going to go away and not bother anyone? All her talk about living peacefully was her playing us, that's why it was so riddled with contradictions. If we turn her loose, the risk that she'll get up to some supervillain shit and hurt someone is too high.
 
The Narrator said:
This is the same person who, in another timeline, unleashed Evil Nuts on the population that mutated people into monsters. That had nothing to do with the Freezer or Niko, she just did it for the evilz. This Hijiri hasn't yet done that, but she hasn't done anything to earn our trust, either. Do we really think that if we let her go, she's just going to go away and not bother anyone? All her talk about living peacefully was her playing us, that's why it was so riddled with contradictions. If we turn her loose, the risk that she'll get up to some supervillain shit and hurt someone is too high.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Mami is capable of Tetris. And yet we're not treating her like a hand grenade with the pin pulled, right? We're careful, so we don't break her, but we don't treat her as a threat. When she has a problem, do we ignore her and say "Let her throw her tantrum, she'll be fine afterward"? She fucking won't, and we fucking don't.

As has been explained repeatedly and in depth, Hijiri's psych problems are at their very core centered around control. Yanking her gem is what made her do all that shit in canon. It's like telling Homura that she's making things worse. It's like telling canon Sayaka that she's a corpse that doesn't deserve to live. It's like telling Mami that she's been turning girls into witches. And on top of all of that, recall that Hijiri was, like every other person in that entire story, spiraling hard. The Hijiri we're talking to is not spiralling. The Hijiri we're talking to has not been gemmed. Her issues, while they are extant, are not active. They do not drive her the way they did in canon.

If you do sufficiently horrible things to people, they will turn into monsters. It does not matter who they are. It does not matter how strong they appear. It does not matter what they may have resisted in the past. Everyone can be broken. This is a fact. Hijiri was broken, broken in exactly the same way that led to tetris and "I'm such a fool" and Homulily. And you don't condemn any of those people, because obviously fucking not. And you won't condemn Hijiri, because obviously fucking not.
 
Last edited:
Romka said:
I've thought about it, and I don't think the Pleiades being upset is even the main issue with letting Hijiri go. I think the main issue is that if we let her go, that's it for Hijiri, there's very little we can do for her at that point. Even ignoring the possibility of her coming back and causing trouble for the Pleiades, the best we can hope for is that hijiri eventually overcomes her problems and becomes a happy, well adjusted magical girl, albeit one with regrets. Given the setting I doubt it would actually go that well, but even if it does she would still be happier in Asunaro.

For all that we joke that Asunaro is a terrible place, it actually is a pretty nice city for Hijiri to live in. The Pleiades are friendly and willing to forgive her, her family is there, and it's close enough to us that clear seeds are easy to come by. Coupled with therapy from Sabrina and the Pleiades, she could get over her problems much faster than she would otherwise. She could even afford to be a normal girl if we gave her a clear seed.

If we let her go, we are essentially giving up on all of that. There may be some argument that gemming her would make that impossible anyway, but I don't actually think that's true. The way I see it, we actually have three possible ways of dealing with a post gem Hijiri, most of which are not mutually exclusive.

The first thing we can do is circumvent the lichbomb entirely by just not telling her what we did or claiming we knocked her out. It might not work, but it's worth a try, and if it succeeds the problem gets solved right there.

If she does learn about the lichbomb, the second thing we can do is to give her a clear seed. That effectively eliminates any risk of her witching out, so the only way she could die from this is if she went fully suicidal. Say what you will about Hijiri, I don't think she's so mentally fragile she would actually kill herself especially with proper social.

The last thing we can do is to talk to her. Regardless of what anyone wants from this choice, I think everyone would like an opportunity to really talk with Hijiri. The entire time we've had her with us we've been trying to social her, but its mostly been ineffective due to poor timing. No matter what it would be important to not only talk to her but to do so at the right time. If she does get lichbombed then I would recommend talking to her immediately after the bomb, and after she's had time to cool down in order to maximize the strength of the argument. Early on, we should definitely point the blame where it belongs: at Kyubey

The only way to achieve the best outcome is to theme Hijiri and work through the consequences. It will be difficult, but it is possible, and I believe we can do it. At the very least, if we don't try, then we've failed already.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This all only applies if "letting her go" is exclusive from talking to her. No one is voting for that.

The Narrator said:
She attacked people and stole things. When she was caught, we gave her the benefit of the doubt and huge amount of leeway while trying to help her, and she was apparently lying to us and coordinating with her co-conspirator the entire time, and now she's attempting to escape. And we're going to let her go because... what? She might throw a tantrum? Let her. She'll tire herself out eventually and maybe then she'll actually listen, because clearly she's not listening to us now.

People seem to think that if we gem her, she'll become irrevocably homicidal. If it were that easy to turn her into a homicidal maniac, then she must be pretty unstable. And if not, then I don't see any reason to not use a painless, harmless and completely humane method of knocking her out to keep her in custody.

This is the same person who, in another timeline, unleashed Evil Nuts on the population that mutated people into monsters. That had nothing to do with the Freezer or Niko, she just did it for the evilz. This Hijiri hasn't yet done that, but she hasn't done anything to earn our trust, either. Do we really think that if we let her go, she's just going to go away and not bother anyone? All her talk about living peacefully was her playing us, that's why it was so riddled with contradictions. If we turn her loose, the risk that she'll get up to some supervillain shit and hurt someone is too high.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yea, um. Niko contradicted this entire analysis with her statement that all of her lies have a kernel of truth.

And the Evil Nuts thing was 1) Distributed by Airi's crazy ass and not directly her doing, and 2) Part of her plan to get the Pleiades killed, which she currently doesn't want to do.

We've also already taken her off-course from becoming Canon!Hijiri. Her perception of Niko has been shaken up well enough that it's very likely that she's deescalating and just wants to remove herself from the entire shitshow. If you gem her, you violently relapse her at BEST.

Also, you know who else was unstable enough to commit a terrorist attack on a school and kill dozens of muggles? Oriko. But guess what we did.

It's almost like judging people for what their alternate selves do when they're psychotically desperate and tortured is fucked up and evil.
 
AuraTwilight said:
Also, you know who else was unstable enough to commit a terrorist attack on a school and kill dozens of muggles? Oriko. But guess what we did.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You mean how we captured her by force and kept her under house arrest for weeks until we felt she had changed enough to be trustworthy, and didn't just let her run loose and hope everything would be fine?

Everyone's assuming that Hijiri's changed course, but what evidence do we have of that? Her cooperation was a ruse. We can't trust anything she said.
 
So, got bored and decided to actually take a proper look at previous updates and...

Firnagzen said:
You crouch down, touching Niko on the shoulder. It's no easy task, not with the mass of girls clustered around Hijiri's feet. "Niko? You're making Hijiri uncomfortable."

"N-no," Niko manages. "No, I'm sorry, Hijiri, please don't go away-"

You blink. That's not quite what you were expecting.

Hijiri makes an uncomfortable noise, trying to pry Niko's arms off. "Please let go of me."

Niko just wails louder and tightens her grip.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah, she's going to be unhappy about this.:V It's probably going to really screw her up.

Also, it did look like you guys were beginning to get through to Hijiri, at least a little bit. Kind of a shame you guys decided to multi-task socialing her and finding Airi at the same time. Finding Airi so quickly cut the conversations off before they could actually get anywhere.

At first, I thought Hijiri might immediately try to skip town after escaping. But looking at the updates, she did seem to want to genuinely go back. Or at least that's what she seemed to convey. I can totally get why some people here really distrust her by the way, that girl is sketchy as hell. Even when she seemed to be opening up, there seemed to be a possibility that she was only trying to distract Sabrina from noticing Airi slowly approaching out of her range.

Hopefully things go the way you guys expect them to.
 
The Narrator said:
You mean how we captured her by force and kept her under house arrest for weeks until we felt she had changed enough to be trustworthy, and didn't just let her run loose and hope everything would be fine?

Everyone's assuming that Hijiri's changed course, but what evidence do we have of that? Her cooperation was a ruse. We can't trust anything she said.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Oriko doesn't have entrapment issues, but uh... we DID threaten to witch out her girlfriend in front of her, so we don't get to act like we did right by Oriko.

No one is arguing that Hijiri should be trusted because she was cooperative. It's because there's various signifiers in the narration that we were getting through her defenses and shacking her worldview. And the description of her having a bitter smile as opposed to the other villain-y smiles Firn has prosed about, as well as what 'bitter smiles' mean in PMMM in general?

It's a strong indication that she's losing hope in anything rather than turning violent. You know who else had a bitter smile? Sayaka when she said she was stupid.
 
AuraTwilight said:
It's a strong indication that she's losing hope in anything rather than turning violent. You know who else had a bitter smile? Sayaka when she said she was stupid.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's lot of reasons that someone can smile bitterly. All it indicates is that she finds something disappointing. It could be as simple as, "My plan has failed."

If you really think that smile indicates that she's grief-spiraling, isn't that even more reason to not let her run? She could witch out before we found her again.

If she's running because she was being dishonest, then she's a danger to others. If she's running because she's losing her shit, then she's a danger to herself and others.
 
Sabrina is facing a test, of sorts? Make one very short decision, and it will define and shape her possibilities in this arc. NO time for speeches, but what will is she carrying forward? There could be a speech in her heart, and writing the draft of that now isn't wrong.

The third conflict option is trending? May I address the approach @Kaizuki is leading? The concept isn't harmful, yet the delivery may be improved. The suggested concept of Social is 'rationalist' in a situation where emotion has hijacked the listener. Yes, or No?

Contingent upon your acceptance that Hijiri is a potential foundation for far-future actions we need to take, solving her problems could be required to win. Let me suggest positive modifications? Keeping Hijiri here of her own choice was best, but maybe impossible. The ability to stand before her again immediately is very nearly goal number 2, but actually that should be
"defeat Anri in a way that Hijiri can accept."
Our deeds or anyone else, we will get the reputation hit if it goes wrong. Onmur said well, Telepathy block might be the step we need to get bombproof here, and the excuse for it was established by the conversations Hijiri was having earlier. Not every task is in Sabrina's sole purview. Delegation skills. Defusing Hijiri's Lichbomb might not be our job, Mami has a better perspective. But becoming the respected leader Is Sabrina's path. How best to do that?

There is some chance Hijiri will watch, or learn about our combat action. Or kinda rejoin Anri, given weak coping logic and existential fear. Gem Anri in her sight, and what have we accomplished? We should be remember that Anri is not a deadly enemy in her mind. We will be demonstrating our character. She will evaluate us. Making allies is hard work. But we get a "2-for" in some way? Hijiri IS Niko's wish. Best outcome will be like restoring some of her Wish.

Ask Niko to keep the inevitable Pleiades response at a level where we can recover the situation, but stay back? The balance between "in contact with" and "controlled by" is what Hijiri needs to learn in order to negotiate her future with all the combatants around her. Yes, or No?

The society of Magical Girls is currently pro-level barbarian warrior crap. Fixing Everything with just our own hands and magic can mean "creating the new philosophy of the Magical Girls." And a few achievements for them to build upon.

Our challenge is her (and I guess, by extension, Niko's) Emotional Intelligence gap. Do mind stepping into the gap!

Our trump card is probably a more literal pass at creating "aspiration identification." Be alike, but let her still be special. Not that "we were wished alive," perhaps, but that Sabrina began her life "over" from blank. By choosing the upward path, we got this far. And there is room for her to do that, too. Ever watch "Blade Runner?" Oh, and Everybody Hates Kyuubey.


Why harp on Hijiri's outcome? If you are listening still, here are three shining motivational words from an unknown future of PMAS...

Electrical.

Grief.

Pump.
 
The Narrator said:
There's lot of reasons that someone can smile bitterly. All it indicates is that she finds something disappointing. It could be as simple as, "My plan has failed."

If you really think that smile indicates that she's grief-spiraling, isn't that even more reason to not let her run? She could witch out before we found her again.

If she's running because she was being dishonest, then she's a danger to others. If she's running because she's losing her shit, then she's a danger to herself and others.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Letting her run is a poor choice.

Gemming her (or in general restraining her) is an even worse choice.

Unfortunately, they're basically the only choices we have, so we need to pick the one that has the lowest likelihood of causing problems. Which, in this case, would be letting her go, 'cause as people have been saying the gem option has the chance to go very, very wrong.
 
The Narrator said:
There's lot of reasons that someone can smile bitterly. All it indicates is that she finds something disappointing. It could be as simple as, "My plan has failed."

If you really think that smile indicates that she's grief-spiraling, isn't that even more reason to not let her run? She could witch out before we found her again.

If she's running because she was being dishonest, then she's a danger to others. If she's running because she's losing her shit, then she's a danger to herself and others.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Between "will make her possibly dangerous" and "will make her absolutely dangerous" I'm picking the former.
 
AuraTwilight said:
Between "will make her possibly dangerous" and "will make her absolutely dangerous" I'm picking the former.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It only "will absolutely make her dangerous" if we accept your assertion that gemming her will make her irrevocably homicidal, and I don't. It's based on some assumptions that I find dubious, foremost among them being that canon-PMKM Hijiri wasn't homicidal until after she saw the Freezer. Can you cite what chapter that was declared? Because from what I remember of PMKM, Hijiri was homicidal from the start. Her wish was to effectively to watch them all die, and she was unleashing Evil Nuts on the civilian population long before Kazumi 13 woke up, and before she replaced Niko and infiltrated the Pleiades. From there it escalated pretty quick to wanting genocide on all of humanity.

If she's really as close to the verge of going homicidal as you seem to think she is, than it seems like it's inevitable that it'll happen the next time something goes wrong, in which case I'd rather she was a homicidal maniac that's institutionalized with an anti-magic enchantment than a homicidal maniac on the loose. And if she's not so irredeemably psychotic that she's one bad day away from becoming the Joker, then I don't think that getting knocked out while trying to escape is going to put her over the edge. If you really think that she'll react that badly to being gemmed, then don't tell her. All she needs to know is that we knocked her ass out--painlessly, humanely and without any of the health risks that rendering someone unconscious would normally entail--because she betrayed the trust we showed her and did the one thing that we told her wasn't okay while she was on probation.


EDIT:
Comparisons to Mami going Tetris and what Oriko did during Sadness Prayer don't really fly for me, because in their own fucked up way, they both thought they were saving lives. Mami thought she was putting her friends out of their misery before they inevitably died and killed others in the process. Oriko thought she was preventing the end of the world. It doesn't make it okay, but at least they had a reason that they thought would be worth the cost and were willing to make the same sacrifice themselves. PMKM Hijiri didn't care about the human cost, lashed out indiscriminately and had no real goal beyond hate.
 
Last edited:
If Hijiri leaves she is going to be an emotionally unstable magical girl alone in an unknown city who's lost her family and will probably start feeling regretful for her poor decisions. Under those circumstances, witching out is an actual possibility, and there's nothing we could do to stop it. If we keep, her here witching out would be effectively impossible.

If she does turn hostile as a result of being gemmed, we can still recover from that. She won't be able to witch out because we're around, and she won't be able to lash out because she will be restrained. That means she will have no choice but to listen to us, and at that point I believe we can convince her to back down and begin administering therapy. If she's angry, we can wait until she calms down and speak to her then. If we keep trying, eventually we will get through to her.

As for the idea that things are more likely to turn out well if we let her leave, that's not necessarily true. If we let Hijiri leave, her fate is up to chance. If we keep her here, whether it turns out better or worse depends entirely on our ability to talk to her. In that regard the question we should be asking is whether or not Sabrina or anyone else could get through to Hijiri.
 
Last edited:
Warning For Marginal Behavior
The Narrator said:
It only "will absolutely make her dangerous" if we accept your assertion that gemming her will make her irrevocably homicidal, and I don't. It's based on some assumptions that I find dubious, foremost among them being that canon-PMKM Hijiri wasn't homicidal until after she saw the Freezer. Can you cite what chapter that was declared? Because from what I remember of PMKM, Hijiri was homicidal from the start. Her wish was to effectively to watch them all die, and she was unleashing Evil Nuts on the civilian population long before Kazumi 13 woke up, and before she replaced Niko and infiltrated the Pleiades. From there it escalated pretty quick to wanting genocide on all of humanity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

She was specifically only homicidal to Niko when she made her wish onward; it's right there in her contracting scene; she wanted to burn NIKO'S death into her eyes. Her plan fucking changed when she learned of Kazumi and the Freezer and she has a whole spiel calling the Pleiades out for their actions when she reveals her true face.

And if you seriously doubt that this will all play into Hijiri's issues regarding her agency, personhood, and control over her own life as a real person? You're either evil or stupid, I'm sorry. I've posted multiple essays and the only retorts I'm getting are "Well nuh uh, tho."

"Hijiri did shit before Kazumi 13" doesn't even matter, there were 12 others.

If she's really as close to the verge of going homicidal as you seem to think she is, than it seems like it's inevitable that it'll happen the next time something goes wrong, in which case I'd rather she was a homicidal maniac that's institutionalized with an anti-magic enchantment than a homicidal maniac on the loose. And if she's not so irredeemably psychotic that she's one bad day away from becoming the Joker, then I don't think that getting knocked out while trying to escape is going to put her over the edge. If you really think that she'll react that badly to being gemmed, then don't tell her. All she needs to know is that we knocked her ass out--painlessly, humanely and without any of the health risks that rendering someone unconscious would normally entail--because she betrayed the trust we showed her and did the one thing that we told her wasn't okay while she was on probation.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If Sayaka can figure it out on her own in some timelines, so can Hijiri. This is grossly irresponsible and at best you're playing russian roulette with a girl's mind. You're assuming that it'll work out when the alternative is Hijiri going apeshit. Even if she doesn't become murder-happy, or suicidal, her shutting us out and refusing to cooperate is still a failure-state.

EDIT:
Comparisons to Mami going Tetris and what Oriko did during Sadness Prayer don't really fly for me, because in their own fucked up way, they both thought they were saving lives. Mami thought she was putting her friends out of their misery before they inevitably died and killed others in the process. Oriko thought she was preventing the end of the world. It doesn't make it okay, but at least they had a reason that they thought would be worth the cost and were willing to make the same sacrifice themselves. PMKM Hijiri didn't care about the human cost, lashed out indiscriminately and had no real goal beyond hate.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Kirika, then. She had no idea what Oriko's ultimate motives were, did it because of her maniacal love for her, and (after the first time) was willing and able to kill countless Puella Magi and civilians without a single shred of remorse.

It was still monstrously fucked up that we used Kirika's soul as a bargaining chip, though. Sabrina has to hold herself to a higher fucking standard than this.

If Hijiri leaves she is going to be an emotionally unstable magical girl alone in an unknown city who's lost her family and will probably start feeling regretful for her poor decisions. Under those circumstances, witching out is an actual possibility, and there's nothing we could do to stop it. If we keep, her here witching out would be effectively impossible.

If she does turn hostile as a result of being gemmed, we can still recover from that. She won't be able to witch out because we're around, and she won't be able to lash out because she will be restrained. That means she will have no choice but to listen to us, and at that point I believe we can convince her to back down and begin administering therapy. If she's angry, we can wait until she calms down and speak to her then. If we keep trying, eventually we will get through to her.

As for the idea that things are more likely to turn out well if we let her leave, that's not necessarily true. If we let Hijiri leave, her fate is up to chance. If we keep her here, whether it turns out better or worse depends entirely on our ability to talk to her. In that regard the question we should be asking is whether or not Sabrina or anyone else could get through to Hijiri.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There's VARIOUS other possibilities between "restrain Hijiri" and "Hijiri leaves town forever." Namely, "Hijiri isn't restrained and is thus more approachable after she calms down" and "Hijiri can't stand going back to the Dollhouse but finds the Mitakihara offer acceptable" or whatever. This isn't a useful dichotomy you're painting.
 
Romka said:
If she does turn hostile as a result of being gemmed, we can still recover from that. She won't be able to witch out because we're around, and she won't be able to lash out because she will be restrained. That means she will have no choice but to listen to us, and at that point I believe we can convince her to back down and begin administering therapy. If she's angry, we can wait until she calms down and speak to her then. If we keep trying, eventually we will get through to her.

As for the idea that things are more likely to turn out well if we let her leave, that's not necessarily true. If we let Hijiri leave, her fate is up to chance. If we keep her here, whether it turns out better or worse depends entirely on our ability to talk to her. In that regard the question we should be asking is whether or not Sabrina or anyone else could get through to Hijiri.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The biggest problem with this line of thought is, to me, the idea that we/Sabrina are some kind of Social Goddess who can "therapy" anyone.

We really aren't, and we should do a better job at remembering that, rather than continue pulling off risky stunts on the assumption that we won't make mistakes.
 
I don't have the time or inclination to jump back into this whole debate, but I'd like to know the current betting odds that the girl who's been lying transparently to us and actively working against us the entire time we've been being doing nothing but being soft on her and trusting her to deal with us with even the barest shred of good faith will suddenly stop lying transparently to us and working against us when we continue doing nothing but being soft on her and trusting her to deal with us with even the barest shred of good faith.
 
Always Happening said:
I don't have the time or inclination to jump back into this whole debate, but I'd like to know the current betting odds that the girl who's been lying transparently to us and actively working against us the entire time we've been being doing nothing but being soft on her and trusting her to deal with us with even the barest shred of good faith will suddenly stop lying transparently to us and working against us when we continue doing nothing but being soft on her and trusting her to deal with us with even the barest shred of good faith.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Counterpoint, what are the betting odd of the canonically homicidal psychopath who lashes out at everyone who she thinks are trying to control her going homicidal and lashing out at us for trying to control her?
 
If that's the case, then since we're not going to be able to allow her to do as she pleases (because that involves hurting people), it seems like that would make it inevitable whether we gem her or not. So you would you rather have a homicidal psychopath running loose or safely in custody?
 
The Narrator said:
If that's the case, then since we're not going to be able to allow her to do as she pleases (because that involves hurting people), it seems like that would make it inevitable whether we gem her or not. So you would you rather have a homicidal psychopath running loose or safely in custody?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Except we don't know that the bolded is true.
 
AuraTwilight said:
There's VARIOUS other possibilities between "restrain Hijiri" and "Hijiri leaves town forever." Namely, "Hijiri isn't restrained and is thus more approachable after she calms down" and "Hijiri can't stand going back to the Dollhouse but finds the Mitakihara offer acceptable" or whatever. This isn't a useful dichotomy you're painting.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That implies that Hijiri won't be restrained when she isn't calm, and I highly doubt Hijiri is going to go to Mitakihara under any circumstance.

Sovereign Hunt said:
The biggest problem with this line of thought is, to me, the idea that we/Sabrina are some kind of Social Goddess who can "therapy" anyone
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sabrina has social'd successfully in the past, and I think if we're careful to avoid our social weaknesses, play on our strengths, and get help from say, Oriko, we can do it.

AuraTwilight said:
Except we don't know that the bolded is true.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We also don't know if its false. This works both ways.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top