Remove ads

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Reader mode
Did we explain the hazards of the clear seed? Because I feel like a genuine explanation of the clear seed would be an opportunity to increase trust slightly and act as a segue to prove that we want to help. Also, the seed hatching is a bad thing anyway, so it's not even super weird to say. And getting that out of the way first can prevent that from being an issue later even if she does cut us off.

Something like:

[ ] Apologize. She's right we don't understand; even thinking about what she went through is enough to terrify us.
[ ] As an aside, mention that the clear seed she took should not be put next to a regular grief seed, otherwise a witch will hatch.
[ ] We just want to help. But we can't understand how to help unless we know her side of the story.
-[ ] The Pleiades won't give us the whole story. They might be withholding information, but they probably don't know everything that's happened. They certainly don't know how much you've suffered.
-[ ] Offer to try and find whatever she was looking for in Niko's lab. Would she agree to talk then?

I'm a little iffy on, "They certainly don't know how much you've suffered." But I wanted to be able to plant doubt as to the Pleiades' malice vs. ignorance from a perspective understandable by someone who thinks that the Pleiades are malicious. I feel that might get her to come around to the position that talking out her problems is a good idea.
 
Last edited:
TJSomething said:
Did we explain the hazards of the clear seed? Because I feel like a genuine explanation of the clear seed would be an opportunity to increase trust slightly and act as a segue to prove that we want to help. Also, the seed hatching is a bad thing anyway, so it's not even super weird to say. And getting that out of the way first can prevent that from being an issue later even if she does cut us off.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The problem with that, is that we'd be telling the deranged meguca how to aggressively hatch Grief Seeds.
 
Hm. At least Anri's talking, but she probably won't do so for much longer.

Hijiri seems to have accepted her situation for now, so we could try to figure out, where to go from here. The Pleiades probably won't agree to anything without some supervision.

The most difficult thing will probably be convincing Niko that Hijiri having a happy life does not mean that she has to live the way Niko intended for her.
 
Onmur said:
The problem with that, is that we'd be telling the deranged meguca how to aggressively hatch Grief Seeds.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Adding my own reading of PMKM to that, between the character of her personal actions, her involvement as the main one handling the bomb threat, and the fact that Almond based witches fade from the story after she's stopped, I'm of the impression that Anri is the driving force behind the overt meguca terrorism in PMKM.
 
Onmur said:
The problem with that, is that we'd be telling the deranged meguca how to aggressively hatch Grief Seeds.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Right. She's a special kind of crazy.

Still might not hurt to use us not trusting the Pleiades as a way to encourage her to talk more.

[ ] Apologize. She's right we don't understand; even thinking about what she went through is enough to terrify us.
[ ] We just want to help. But we can't understand how to help unless we know her side of the story.
-[ ] The Pleiades won't give us the whole story. They might be withholding information, but they probably don't know everything that's happened. They certainly don't know how much you've suffered.
-[ ] Offer to try and find whatever she was looking for in Niko's lab. Would she agree to talk then?
 
Can we straight up (privately) ask Kazumi if she's found out any earthshattering secrets about megucadom that are too dangerous to share with anybody?

It increases her chance of getting Witchbombed by, say, asking KB what that was about, if she isn't already Witchbombed, but if there's anyone we can trust with the bombs, it's Kazumi.

If we ask, and she is Witchbombed, this opens up the possibility to confronting Yuuri with the Witchbomb on the table, even if it's just Kazumi and Sabrina doing the confronting. Though, we'd have to make sure Yuuri's backstory includes the Witchbomb in PMAS, too, before doing this.
 
Onmur said:
Can we straight up (privately) ask Kazumi if she's found out any earthshattering secrets about megucadom that are too dangerous to share with anybody?

It increases her chance of getting Witchbombed by, say, asking KB what that was about, if she isn't already Witchbombed, but if there's anyone we can trust with the bombs, it's Kazumi.

If we ask, and she is Witchbombed, this opens up the possibility to confronting Yuuri with the Witchbomb on the table, even if it's just Kazumi and Sabrina doing the confronting. Though, we'd have to make sure Yuuri's backstory includes the Witchbomb in PMAS, too, before doing this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm in favor. Hell, invoke her own words. Ask her about to talk to you about learning "things she feels like she can't risk sharing with anyone."

Guilop said:
Hm. At least Anri's talking, but she probably won't do so for much longer.

Hijiri seems to have accepted her situation for now, so we could try to figure out, where to go from here. The Pleiades probably won't agree to anything without some supervision.

The most difficult thing will probably be convincing Niko that Hijiri having a happy life does not mean that she has to live the way Niko intended for her.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think it's important to work further with Hijiri since Hijiri is compliant right now, but largely because she feels helpless. This is dangerous since, once she figures she has a real chance to act, there's no telling what she'll do.

---------------

Vote wise, I think this is still very relevant, though it may need tweaking.

[] Apologize to Hijiri for the screaming and for your own pushiness. Offer her a cleanse and to block off Yuuri if she needs it.

Giving an offer to block off Anri is nice if she's not inclined to be screamed at, but it puts a mastermind on the spot.

With possible addition:

- [] Offer to answer any questions she has about you. It'd be more accurate from you than Anri anyways.
 
The Phoenixian said:
I'm in favor. Hell, invoke her own words. Ask her about to talk to you about learning "things she feels like she can't risk sharing with anyone."


I think it's important to work further with Hijiri since Hijiri is compliant right now, but largely because she feels helpless. This is dangerous since, once she figures she has a real chance to act, there's no telling what she'll do.

---------------

Vote wise, I think this is still very relevant, though it may need tweaking.

[] Apologize to Hijiri for the screaming and for your own pushiness. Offer her a cleanse and to block off Yuuri if she needs it.

Giving an offer to block off Anri is nice if she's not inclined to be screamed at, but it puts a mastermind on the spot.

With possible addition:

- [] Offer to answer any questions she has about you. It'd be more accurate from you than Anri anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not sure about the addition, since it'd require Hijiri wanting to know about us... maybe?

I'd include talking about Hijiri's future release, and how to make it happen. Since she's insisting on the "I'm your helpless prisoner and can't do anything about it" angle.

Also, this sounds like a hint:
"You can't possibly understand my pain!" Anri shrieks. "I- I- you're just like them!"

You're not terribly disappointed with Hijiri's reaction, either. The girl stiffens, hands twitching into fists before she catches herself and forces herself to relax.

Interesting.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Specially right after:
"And... I'm sorry for your loss, Miss Anri."

"What did you do?" Hijiri asks, flinching as a frown etches deep trenches into her forehead.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Since the fist clenching seems to be an involuntary reaction she seems to force herself to stop (hide?), my read is that this points towards Hijiri being the leader of the two, or at least, not having been fooled by Yuuri as she's told us.

I think she's reacting because she's losing control of Yuuri.

Of course, maybe Yuuri's directly told Hijiri something in her rage that caused the reaction, but that I can't tell.
 
Onmur said:
So... PMKM recap. Or at least, my comments while re-reading.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Wow, that really was a hot mess. In many ways.

Thank you for your sacrifice. We, who are too cowardly to descend into that pit of despair again, salute you.

Some useful information in there, too.

TJSomething said:
[ ] Apologize. She's right we don't understand; even thinking about what she went through is enough to terrify us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We don't? None of my family and friends have ever turned into monsters, sure. But death and betrayal? Yeah, I know death and betrayal. I'm sure I'm not alone.

It's an interesting question, at what point SV ends and Sabrina Vee begins. If this thread really is the sun her mind reflects, then those experiences and the feelings that come from them are part of her every bit as much as they are part of us, even if she can't remember them specifically.

... oh, wait, she can. She remembers everything shown in canon. And as memories, not as a moving picture show if I understand the beginning properly. Even without our living meta-experience, she's gone through so much more than Anri Airi can fathom, and we thank Mom every day that we have a chance to stop it, to break this cycle of suffering.

The Phoenixian said:
I think it's important to work further with Hijiri since Hijiri is compliant right now, but largely because she feels helpless. This is dangerous since, once she figures she has a real chance to act, there's no telling what she'll do.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I agree, with the additional qualification that we should at least try to ask her what her wish was. Adopt a conciliatory tone and posture (I winced when we crossed our arms) and just be authentic.

"Hijiri... you stepped into a harsh and unforgiving world because you had a powerful desire in your heart, so powerful that you were willing to wager your human soul on it. So... well, 'I'll show you mine if you show me yours?' I'm not going to guarantee it'll help, but... well, it could. Believe it or not, I am on your side. Yuuri's too, if she'll stop being a maniac."
 
DschingisKhan said:
[ ] Apologize. She's right we don't understand; even thinking about what she went through is enough to terrify us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We don't? None of my family and friends have ever turned into monsters, sure. But death and betrayal? Yeah, I know death and betrayal. I'm sure I'm not alone.

It's an interesting question, at what point SV ends and Sabrina Vee begins. If this thread really is the sun her mind reflects, then those experiences and the feelings that come from them are part of her every bit as much as they are part of us, even if she can't remember them specifically.

... oh, wait, she can. She remembers everything shown in canon. And as memories, not as a moving picture show if I understand the beginning properly. Even without our living meta-experience, she's gone through so much more than Anri Airi can fathom, and we thank Mom every day that we have a chance to stop it, to break this cycle of suffering.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, think about the thread's reactions every time something goes badly, then apply that to the equivalent of Airi's situation, that is, Mami becoming a Witch.
 
Onmur said:
Well, think about the thread's reactions every time something goes badly, then apply that to the equivalent of Airi's situation, that is, Mami becoming a Witch.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Maybe you would decide it's time to go a-murdering, but I'd like to think that I'd be able to manipulate a response that was at least moderately constructive.
 
Onmur said:
Well, think about the thread's reactions every time something goes badly, then apply that to the equivalent of Airi's situation, that is, Mami becoming a Witch.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Immediate response would be a breakdown, that would hopefully be mitigated by constant cleansing or taping a clear seed to our gem. Then we'd drop everything to focus on dewitching. If we lost her seed... then there might be problems, but I think we'd be more likely to aggressively trade for Mami's seed than go a murdering.
 
Vebyast said:
Maybe you would decide it's time to go a-murdering, but I'd like to think that I'd be able to manipulate a response that was at least moderately constructive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Maybe I wouldn't assume what your actions would be, but I would hazard a guess the thread would be rather very scared of the prospect of Mami witching out, if it came up for real.
 
[] Do your level best to turn Hijiri's cartesian theater into a panopticon.
-[] Build a known-plaintext corpus by paying attention to allies as you telepathy with them.
-[] Utility fog functions at molecular or atomic scales, so instrument Hijiri's neurological and endocrine systems as well. Look for emotions and exercises of executive control.

Screw this cat-and-mouse game, I want to know everything.

[] Offer to bring the memory device back in to stop Yuuri's screaming.

Call her bluff.

[] To Yuuri: You don't need to have felt the same to understand how much it must hurt.

-[] But while pain is an explanation, it isn't an excuse. Are her actions right? Are they what Yuuri would have done? Are they what Yuuri would have wanted?

Option one: If you're going to try to piss her off, do it right.

-[] What you don't understand is how that leads to this.

Option two: Villainous monologue goooooooooooo.
 
Last edited:
We could also, if we were feeling a little less aggressive, go for a more sympathetic approach. "I don't understand what you've been through, but how many people can you talk to about this without being hauled off to a mental hospital? Help me understand what you're going through and I can ensure you'll be safe."
 
Sketchy Lurker said:
We could also, if we were feeling a little less aggressive, go for a more sympathetic approach. "I don't understand what you've been through, but how many people can you talk to about this without being hauled off to a mental hospital? Help me understand what you're going through and I can ensure you'll be safe."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I question that. The winning vote last time was to intentionally aggravate her, so capitalizing on that is probably a better idea then trying to awkwardly backtrack.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Nov 19, 2017 at 7:10 PM, finished with 129189 posts and 10 votes.
  • [x] Apologize to Hijiri. We're not handling this well. Offer her the memory device's proximity to stop Yuuri's screaming.
    -[x] Ask if she knows any phone contact info for Yuuri, in case she stops responding to your hails.
    [x] To Yuuri: You haven't felt the same, but you can imagine how much it hurts. What you don't understand is why she'd want anyone else to feel that.
    -[x] Aim for a motive rant - any information is potentially useful.
    [x] To Mami: You have some ideas on how to handle Hijiri. Maybe she'll have better luck.
    -[x] Niko wants Hijiri to have a safe, happy life. Hijiri doesn't want to live the life that Niko made for her. There are compromises that fit both.
    -[x] Asking Niko if she'd accept a different, still happy life for Hijiri might help?
    -[x] She should run all this by Kazumi, probably.
    [x] Redshirt
Click to expand...
 
Wow, yeah. The work clearly isn't braining right now. Just ignore me.


(Don't quest and job, apparently. Makes you forget what the heck is going on :/ )
 
Last edited:
The Phoenixian said:
I'm in favor. Hell, invoke her own words. Ask her about to talk to you about learning "things she feels like she can't risk sharing with anyone."


I think it's important to work further with Hijiri since Hijiri is compliant right now, but largely because she feels helpless. This is dangerous since, once she figures she has a real chance to act, there's no telling what she'll do.

---------------

Vote wise, I think this is still very relevant, though it may need tweaking.

[] Apologize to Hijiri for the screaming and for your own pushiness. Offer her a cleanse and to block off Yuuri if she needs it.

Giving an offer to block off Anri is nice if she's not inclined to be screamed at, but it puts a mastermind on the spot.

With possible addition:

- [] Offer to answer any questions she has about you. It'd be more accurate from you than Anri anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Mmm... would hinting to Kazumi about Witchbomb have to happen right now? It's not something I'd like to pull during such a tense situation, but if not now, then when? Later might be too late.

Crafting...

[ ] Multitask conversations.

[very dubious] Privately ask Kazumi if she's found out any huge, dark secrets about Magical Girls, something terrifying she feels she can't share with anyone.

[ ] Hijiri:
-[ ] Apologize. We're not handling this well.
-[ ] We don't want to keep her prisoner. We want her to be free, to have a peaceful life. It's what we made our Wish for.
-[ ] But for that, we all need to come to an agreement, and Niko's and her problem needs to be solved peacefully.
-[ ] Ask her to collaborate for that, if nothing else.
-[ ] Offer to block telepathy from Yuuri, if she's bothering her.
-[ ] Ask if she has questions?

[ ] Yuuri:
-[ ] She's right we don't understand.
-[ ] Everyone's mad right now, and we don't want anyone to die. Not us, not the Pleiades, not her.
-[??? dubiouuuuus] What would Yuuri do?

Aranfan said:
Immediate response would be a breakdown, that would hopefully be mitigated by constant cleansing or taping a clear seed to our gem. Then we'd drop everything to focus on dewitching. If we lost her seed... then there might be problems, but I think we'd be more likely to aggressively trade for Mami's seed than go a murdering.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm pretty sure I haven't brought up murdering.

The thing with dropping everything and focusing on dewitching would be that we might be abandoning a huge part of our role in helping Magical Girls. I wouldn't want to go recluse knowing we could still be out there helping meguca. Sure, if we figure de-Witching, we'd be helping lots of meguca-turned-Witches, but if dropping everything and focusing on de-Witching was the right thing, I figure it's what we should be doing right now, to start with.

Please tell me if I'm misinterpreting your words.

And really, a breakdown, followed by becoming self-absorbed (for a period of time) would be pretty much optimal. But considering the thread's reaction to things such as Hitomi trying to slap us in anger, I don't have my hopes up.

Redshirt Army said:
I question that. The winning vote last time was to intentionally aggravate her, so capitalizing on that is probably a better idea then trying to awkwardly backtrack.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I know I went with the aggravating Yuuri plan, because I couldn't think of something better, but I'm still hoping there's people who know how to follow up on that.

I don't think we can keep up the aggressiveness so high. I think it depends on how long we want the talk to last.

If we feel we have something meaningful to say in a few words, we could just say that and let Yuuri hang up. Aggravating her was basically a means for her to listen long enough for us to say our piece.

But if we want to talk longer... we need to give Yuuri a reason to listen.

Furthermore, if we backtrack after a death threat... I don't really know how Yuuri would interpret that, but probably not how we want.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Nov 21, 2017 at 3:19 AM, finished with 129193 posts and 10 votes.
  • [x] Apologize to Hijiri. We're not handling this well. Offer her the memory device's proximity to stop Yuuri's screaming.
    -[x] Ask if she knows any phone contact info for Yuuri, in case she stops responding to your hails.
    [x] To Yuuri: You haven't felt the same, but you can imagine how much it hurts. What you don't understand is why she'd want anyone else to feel that.
    -[x] Aim for a motive rant - any information is potentially useful.
    [x] To Mami: You have some ideas on how to handle Hijiri. Maybe she'll have better luck.
    -[x] Niko wants Hijiri to have a safe, happy life. Hijiri doesn't want to live the life that Niko made for her. There are compromises that fit both.
    -[x] Asking Niko if she'd accept a different, still happy life for Hijiri might help?
    -[x] She should run all this by Kazumi, probably.
    [x] Redshirt
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Vebyast said:
Okay, I have to be missing something here.

WHAT IS THE PLAN HERE.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Discussing whether we can find out whether Kazumi's witchbombed the simple way. It's on the previous page.

Onmur said:
Can we straight up (privately) ask Kazumi if she's found out any earthshattering secrets about megucadom that are too dangerous to share with anybody?

It increases her chance of getting Witchbombed by, say, asking KB what that was about, if she isn't already Witchbombed, but if there's anyone we can trust with the bombs, it's Kazumi.

If we ask, and she is Witchbombed, this opens up the possibility to confronting Yuuri with the Witchbomb on the table, even if it's just Kazumi and Sabrina doing the confronting. Though, we'd have to make sure Yuuri's backstory includes the Witchbomb in PMAS, too, before doing this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Uh, Onmur? Trying to figure out if someone's witchbombed by hinting to them about the witchbomb is like trying to figure out if something is lethally poisonous by swallowing it.

This is stupid.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top