Remove ads

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Reader mode
Mmm... How confident are we in our Grief Fog?

We can technically use it as all powerful TK within range, but are we good enough that we could stop Hijiri from escaping, no problem?

[ ] Stay close enough to intervene with the Grief Fog.
-[ ] If things escalate, or Hijiri tries to escape, step in.

And... well, this might sound bad, but can go with Saki... yet listen in?

-[?] Use Fog to listen into the Kannas' converstation.

-[ ] Let them go at it as long as they make progress.

[ ] If necessary, try to mediate and help each Kanna make their case and see each other's point of view.
[ ] Once social progress stops, remind them of the current crisis.
-[ ] Get rid of the Memory Device and ask Hijiri to put you al in contact with Yuuri.

Muramasa said:
She did?

When?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
While we were flying back from Asunaro, I think? Right after we first met in person.
 
Here it is...
Firnagzen said:
"Fair enough," you say. "So how did you girls meet, anyway?"

"Oh! Well, there was a Witch-" Kazumi starts to explain their story. She'd been a magical girl before the rest of the Saints, and she'd actually saved them from Witches. Not all at once, contrary to what you remember, and without that bizarre, out of character testing you remember she'd put them through.

But she'd saved them, one after another.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
[X] Stay and Listen
-[X] To Saki: Leave identical twins, one of which is not our ally, alone together? Hell no. Hijiri and Niko both deserve someone to impartially mediate: Us, Mami, or Sayaka.
-[X] Don't interject unless conversation deteriorates to the point where nothing is getting across or things get physical
[X] Let Niko and Hijiri vent a little bit
-[X] After a small amount of time, once the pair start to lose steam, remind them about Airi and the Memory Field, both of which need to be fixed.
[X] Maintain cleansing and make sure Kazumi doesn't let her anger get the best of her.

[X] MEANWHILE:
-[X] Focus the search on the south-eastern part of the city. Have Oriko link up with another group too: She thought she was due to die here, right? That's bad.
-[X] Remind everyone to call for help the minute they make contact. Airi is highly dangerous.
 
You know, I'm starting to get the idea that Niko's "I wanted you to be happy" thing is an attempt to deny Hijiri's agency, and that Hijiri's bit about being a "fake" is something that she shares with Niko. In which case any attempt to let these two work things out themselves is doomed.

Also, heroes act. Why did we get an interrupt here?
 
Firnagzen said:
Niko marches straight forward, and before you can shout a warning, slaps Hijiri across the face. The smack rings out across the roof, the force of the blow sending Hijiri spinning to the ground.

"You idiot," Niko snarls. "You were supposed to live happy and not... this!"

"What was I supposed to do?" Hijiri snarls right back. She doesn't stand, balanced in a crouch with one hand on the roof and one touching her reddened cheek. "What was I supposed to do when I found out I was just some- some fake? Am I just your doll to live through?"

"No!" Niko snaps. "You were supposed to live like I never could!"

Saki taps you on the shoulder, gesturing backwards and away from the confrontation. She points upwards at another growing speck in the sky, this one much harder to make out with its sky-coloured camoflage. Kazumi incoming, then.

You shake your head, rather than try and make yourself heard over the shouting match, and you jerk your head back towards them. You need to watch Hijiri.

Saki grits her teeth, grabbing you by the shoulder and trying to drag you away. "Niko can handle herself," she snaps.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Desired response...

"Niko cloned herself, stripped memories out of the clone, and then expected things to turn out perfectly. I'm considerably less concerned about her ability to handle herself than I am about the fact that Hijiri Kanna was willing and able to become a magical girl under those circumstances, indicating that whatever happened, it certainly wasn't perfect. Do you understand why Niko's actions so far, given that context, make me unwilling to leave them alone in this situation, but willing to let them speak before intervening? Both sides are entering this with misconceptions the size of Mt. Fuji."

Stay calm, don't get angry, speak rationally, convey concerns, refuse to be moved. Listen and observe; don't intervene yet. If it comes to blows intervene and start mediating with the intent of getting both sides' views across clearly. Otherwise, wait until it's over and then talk to the involved parties.

I'm not interested in butting in off the bat. It would be less efficient to do so than to get as much of the story as we can first before we start making people impatient with us rather than each other.

Vebyast said:
I'm going to be completely honest, that vote was not interpreted anything like we had intended and it shows. Sabrina basically fucked around doing nothing for three minutes because she executed in serial instead of parallel and didn't interrupt after running out of material on a thread. If I could, I'd have aborted the update to re-vote about three sentences in, when it became apparent that one of the basic assumptions of the plan had failed. Not continued onward doing fuck-all about anything because the plan was invalid.

We had at least one major argument for Hijiri that we'd intended to get in before Niko arrived and we had been depending on an update stopping when it ran out of the minuscule amount of plan we gave it. With that interrupt for re-planning replaced by Sabrina just letting the situation free-wheel, we're kinda fucked.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We are distinctly not "fucked." I'm quite fine with this. We're getting free exposition of serious issues as long as we stand here and don't leave.
 
Last edited:
Vebyast said:
Wall-clock time doesn't matter, we missed several rounds of conversation on everything because Sabrina executed the components of our plan one after another, in the process leaving people hanging or, worse yet, filling the air with empty conversation continuation and preventing an interrupt that we had planned for in our vote. Like, this bit right here:

Even if we didn't say "I was made by a wish too", we damn well would've said something like "I know people that were made by wishes", or "'Artificial' doesn't matter", or something like that. That was a core assumption. We needed to say that and the only reason it wasn't in the vote is because we intended to write it in a succeeding vote. It was way the hell higher-priority than taking over updates from Saki and I'd have instantly dropped that bit of our vote in favor of more reassurances if I'd known that that was a choice. Hijiri should not have been able to say that line to Niko.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think one of the things I'm going to take away here is that Sabrina's multitasking is, demonstrably, not as versatile we had assumed and should not be taken as such until proven capable. If we have too much on our plate to do ourselves we're going to need to delegate some of it.

(Also that we cannot expect the vote to stop where we want it to.)

------

As to the vote itself, something else that might be worth pointing out. Hijiri has an obvious persecution complex. If I'm right, Niko isn't likely to realize that, nor why she'd have it. I've spoken a bit before on my suspicions why this might be the case, but now that the arc is actually out and we're seeing it instead of speculating, I'll take it from the top.

Hijiri stole the memory field. If I had to guess, I'd say that's something to make people forget about her personally. Given that Niko didn't completely forget about her, that's likely people she knows in normal life.

In addition, to quote Hijiri an update ago: "I just... want to leave. Find a peaceful life somewhere else."

I'm not sure think that that drastic a desire to erase herself and move on can solely result from her artificial person issues. If it were just Niko but she still enjoyed her home life, I think she'd be more inclined to lash out at Niko, to claim her life for herself and solve the problem than run away entirely.

As to what at home might cause her to run away while Niko would consider it something joyous she was incapable of... Niko was by all appearances (and metaknowledge) crippled by guilt for something she did. Hijiri on the other hand would not have had the guilt or memory, but she would have the history.

It occurs to me that, given these two people, some kind of emotional abuse (especially guilt tripping) might feed into both their issues in completely separate directions.

With Niko, she doesn't feel worthy anyways, attack or guilt trip her and she might think it's her that's the problem while her home life is actually happy, it just needs her out of the picture to solve the problem. After all, a common thing you hear from the abused is that they though this life of theirs was all normal until they either were away long enough to unpack, or encountered some bit of fiction that showed them that, no, when this stuff happens it's actually sick and wrong. And likewise, thinking it's you that's the problem, not anything else, ties into that.

Put someone who doesn't have some dark defining moment in her past into that place, and what the first has long since internalized, the second might well feel attacked by. So Hijiri doesn't have Niko's problems, but she may well not have the mental defenses Niko built up over her life either. Which explains the persecution complex.

And because Niko still thinks that the worst part of her home life was herself, she didn't realize anything else might have gone wrong.

Unpack this for instance:

"I... I might lie to cover my tracks," Niko admits. "Under similar circumstances. But... the best lies have a kernel of truth."

Why the hell would Niko even be in similar circumstances enough to pick up lying because of it? If she was in situations like Niko is now with some frequency then that is not a sign of a good life.

Like, hell, members of the Saints watch Niko to make sure she doesn't get into trouble. One way or another, this does not speak of good things. For all it was played off as silly earlier, it means that either they worry that Niko will get herself into trouble, or they worry that trouble will find Niko. Given Kazumi's reaction to learning Niko was followed, I'm inclined to believe the latter.

So yeah, I'm starting to suspect Niko's old life was awful and she didn't realize it was her life and not her self. And we may need to step in and clear stuff up because, if so, she won't realize that difference between her and Hijiri on her own.
 
[X] Go with Saki, but only far enough for the Kannas to feel comfortable.
-[X] Hijiri's still a threat. Niko's still too mad and biased.
-[X] Stay within sight. Listen in.

[X] If the conversation...
-[X] Devolves into a fight, or Hijiri tries to run, intervene with Grief Fog.
-[X] Devolves verbally, watch for physical cues and step in.
-[X] Goes well, wait it out.

[X] Afterwards, intervene as mediator. Appeal to the Kanna's rationality. Help them make their cases, and understand each other's point of view.
-[X] Once you hit a metaphorical brick wall, take everyone's minds off the drama by bringing up Yuuri.
--[X] Ask to get rid of the memory device and to get in contact with Yuuri.
 
Onmur said:
-[X] Devolves into a fight, or Hijiri tries to run, intervene with Grief Fog.
[...]
--[X] Ask to get rid of the memory device and to get in contact with Yuuri.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sequence point, grief fog's worthless while the memory device is still ticking.
Vebyast said:
You know, I'm starting to get the idea that Niko's "I wanted you to be happy" thing is an attempt to deny Hijiri's agency and that Hijiri's bit about being a "fake" is something that she shares with Niko. In which case any attempt to let these two work things out themselves is doomed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't think this necessarily means it's doomed; it just means that Niko needs a slap in the face to realize that, no matter what her motivation was, Hijiri is her own person and isn't obliged to like it, or consider it okay, or fit in with her plans.
 
We had a big discussion that went nowhere on discord about it but I rather disagree with the idea of pretending to leave but then snooping on the conversation from afar.

It's a breech of trust if discovered and it limits our ability to intervene based on what we hear. If Niko says that Hijiri is in fact worthless I want to be able to counter that notion in particular rather than the best we can do without revealing ourselves as dirty snoopers being to deliver the standard pitch we were developing.
 
[X] Respond calmly to Saki via telepathy and link everyone else except Niko and Hijiri in, you don't doubt Niko can handle herself but this situation is toxic and neither side actually understands the other; you won't interfere if you aren't forced to but someone is going to have to pick up the pieces after this falls apart.
-[X] Elaborate if asked: Hijiri is an ensouled creation of Niko's wish; Niko is reacting poorly to the matter of her wish deviating from her intent. Ask if Umika has read Mary Shelley; it's not nearly as bad (yet) but the point stands.
[X] Wait and observe. Intervene if they start trying to hurt each other, or if Niko starts trying to force Hijiri to do anything.

Line two is perhaps better served with some other text. However I feel that the intent of "try to make the Pleiades see that this is not just something to let Niko handle" is correct.
 
Niko immediately slapping Hijiri and telling her how she should live her life, does not inspire me with confidence that things wil go well. The two of them absolutely need to talk, but if Kazumi is also pissed, her arriving won't help at all. Leaving them alone to work it out on their own is a no go as well and the way things are going they might need someone to interfere fairly soon.

The idea of Mami acting as the mediator might actually have merit. She's everybody's senpai and doesn't seem too biased, unlike Sayaka. The only question is if she would be up for it.
 
Kaizuki said:
[X] Respond calmly to Saki via telepathy and link everyone else except Niko and Hijiri in, you don't doubt Niko can handle herself but this situation is toxic and neither side actually understands the other; you won't interfere if you aren't forced to but someone is going to have to pick up the pieces after this falls apart.
-[X] Elaborate if asked: Hijiri is an ensouled creation of Niko's wish; Niko is reacting poorly to the matter of her wish deviating from her intent. Ask if Umika has read Mary Shelley; it's not nearly as bad (yet) but the point stands.
[X] Wait and observe. Intervene if they start trying to hurt each other, or if Niko starts trying to force Hijiri to do anything.

Line two is perhaps better served with some other text. However I feel that the intent of "try to make the Pleiades see that this is not just something to let Niko handle" is correct.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm not sure about the "won't intervene if you aren't forced to" bit. I'd like a bit more leeway in when to intervene.
 
blast flame said:
I'm not sure about the "won't intervene if you aren't forced to" bit. I'd like a bit more leeway in when to intervene.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Anything that would make us intervene fits that definition. Anything bad enough that it outweighs the benefit of first obtaining more information is by definition forcing us to intervene. It's a nothing.
 
Kaizuki said:
[X] Respond calmly to Saki via telepathy and link everyone else except Niko and Hijiri in, you don't doubt Niko can handle herself but this situation is toxic and neither side actually understands the other; you won't interfere if you aren't forced to but someone is going to have to pick up the pieces after this falls apart.
-[X] Elaborate if asked: Hijiri is an ensouled creation of Niko's wish; Niko is reacting poorly to the matter of her wish deviating from her intent. Ask if Umika has read Mary Shelley; it's not nearly as bad (yet) but the point stands.
[X] Wait and observe. Intervene if they start trying to hurt each other, or if Niko starts trying to force Hijiri to do anything.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Less words?

[ ] Respond calmly through telepathy: Agree, but the situation is toxic, nobody understands each other.
-[ ] You'll interfere if it's necessary.

... Actually,

[?] She should, too. Neither Niko nor Kanna are in a good state of mind.
-[ ] Niko is reacting poorly to her Wish not working like she expected. Make an analogy to Mary Shelley.

[ ] Wait and observe.
-[ ] Intervene if necessary.
 
Kaizuki said:
[X] Respond calmly to Saki via telepathy and link everyone else except Niko and Hijiri in, you don't doubt Niko can handle herself but this situation is toxic and neither side actually understands the other; you won't interfere if you aren't forced to but someone is going to have to pick up the pieces after this falls apart.
-[X] Elaborate if asked: Hijiri is an ensouled creation of Niko's wish; Niko is reacting poorly to the matter of her wish deviating from her intent. Ask if Umika has read Mary Shelley; it's not nearly as bad (yet) but the point stands.
[X] Wait and observe. Intervene if they start trying to hurt each other, or if Niko starts trying to force Hijiri to do anything.

Line two is perhaps better served with some other text. However I feel that the intent of "try to make the Pleiades see that this is not just something to let Niko handle" is correct.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

[X]Kaizuki

I think this has promise.

Can I recommend a couple additions?

Firstly, just a small change to the second point you have

[]Explain and confirm your suspicions with [either Saki or Kazumi] to be sure you're on the right page if and when you intervene.

That way Sabrina knows a bit better whether or not she's on the right page if she intervenes.

and secondly,
[] If artificiality looks like an overwhelming issue for Hijiri giver her sympathy and be ready to chip in with your own origins as appropriate. Keep it to what can be inferred from what you give out publicly.

Because while there's no guarantee of it being relevant, if it comes up we can and should say it. And, yes, I think that infosec stuff is absolutely required since I don't trust Brinapilot to maintain it by default.
 
The Shelby reference is not good I think. Its not the actual situation, nor does it help elucidate anything.
 
More evidence about Hijiri's/Niko's home life being terrible: The entire shitshow that culminated in Niko's Wish was 100% the fault of neglect. There are roughly five things any slightly reasonable parent would have already fixed that could have stopped the deaths of Niko's friends:

1: A gun was in a place that was accessible by 5-year olds
2: It was already loaded, or the ammo was prepped to be loaded by a 5-year old(s)
3: the three girls were alone in the house long enough to find/find and load said gun and fire it.
4: Niko had enough free reign of the home that she felt it was alright for her to be in wherever the parents stored guns.
5: during all of this she had two of her friends over.

Seriously, it raises the question why Niko's parents wern't in prison when she made her wish. Even if the truth is far more reasonable in PMAS, the fact that Niko could ever get her hands on a gun at 5 is a indicator that bad shit was going down at home.
 
Last edited:
I mean granted Hijiri's dad could just be a cop or something.

EDIT: Also, Onmur recovered on a reread of PMKM that Niko's incident happened in California.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top