*Insert an energetic/eccentric pizza delivery person stating that they were born to do this job*
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Sure. The ultimate question, in this context, is: If we told Hijiri that we were like her and she had all the details, would she agree with the statement to a degree that it would help reassure her about her origins?
I'd argue a strong yes. We woke up with full metaknowledge and in a situation that forced us to immediately and deeply involve ourselves in the situation. Whatever the mechanism was, Sabrina has a purpose.
I'd argue a strong yes. We woke up with full metaknowledge and in a situation that forced us to immediately and deeply involve ourselves in the situation. Whatever the mechanism was, Sabrina has a purpose.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
The evidence may not require us to be made from whole cloth, and may not show the character of those who made us, but my point is that I think even the available inferences point it more and more towards the direction of "Someone made me who I am, intentionally, to be a magical girl." Be that formed from whole cloth or as some kind of meguca weapon X program.
For the purpose of drawing parallels with Hijiri, either way strikes me as something she might be able to feel a connection with since they both have that same core.
Jonen C
F.M.D.G.
- Location
- Lincopense, Ostrogothia, Suecia
I'd insert the opening few paragraphs from Snow Crash here, describing the Deliverator, but I seem to have misplaced my copy of the book.*Insert an energetic/eccentric pizza delivery person stating that they were born to do this job*
Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
- Location
- Twin Realms Mandala
"Your ad said delivery in fifteen minutes or its free - It's been fifteen years!"*Insert an energetic/eccentric pizza delivery person stating that they were born to do this job*
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Depending on where you are, you could report them for employing underage workers.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
You know what, screw all this, all the current votes suck. Back to first principals.
Strategic goals:
Strategic goals:
- If HIjiri is telling the truth, apply therapy. We denote this possible Hijiri by "Hijiri-A" for Ally.
- If Hijiri is not telling the truth, establish that. We denote this possible Hijiri by "Hijiri-H" for Hostile.
- Find out more about our opponents (Yuuri, Hijiri-H).
- Maintain opsec.
- Until our hypothesis space is dominated by Hijiri-A or Hijiri-H, avoid taking actions that'd disproportionately damage one side of the superposition (which we denote Hijiri-*).
- Gather information about Hijiri-H.
- Gather information about Yuuri.
- Cross-reference information from Hijiri-H and Yuuri
- Reassure Hijiri-A about Niko.
- Reassure Hijiri-A about ourselves.
- Reassure Hijiri-A about peaceful life.
- Begin working toward a peaceful life for Hijiri-A.
- Determine Hijiri-*'s wish.
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The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
And if they're delivering pizza at the age of 15, also driving without a license.
Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
- Location
- Twin Realms Mandala
Both are true of Sabrina, as well.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Sounds about right. And a couple I might as well through it out there. will add: Talk to Hijiri in a way that would comfort Hijiri-A while giving Hijiri-H cause to reconsider. (Because, you know, giving them something or somewhere to feel a part of does that. Not sure about if that works on the timescale we have or not.)
Also: She may not be handcuffed, but Hijiri is still pinned to a wall, which is arguably worse. (I've suggested an antimagic enchantment as an alternative to that before, but I just think we should really talk about options there, regardless of how the vote is structured.) So I'm also adding "discuss alternate restraints with teammates" to the list.
Does this make sense? Bah, I know for a fact my comprehensibility and processing ability are dropping, it's time to sleep.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Sabrina doesn't drive or have a job. She does fly without a pilot's license or flight plan, however, so the FAA would be pissed at her.
BlackoutSampler
So Easily Forgotten
One of the main Tactical Goals your forgetting is: Disabling the Memory Disruption Barrier. If that goes down, Hijiri-A can have looser restraints and we can have a more intimate (not like that!) conversation other than shouting across a room with her, and Hijiri-H will have her most effective tool for escape disabled.
Half the problem the two main votes is that they are attempting to create a rapport with Hijiri without input from Hijiri herself. It makes the parts like [] Tell Hijiri about how you we're created from a wish as well. really awkard since we physically cannot read Hijiri's mood(another reason to get that damn feild down, we'd have a better read on her facial expressions). We need an update for Hijiri to catch up with our speculations before we get too deep into one side or the other.
- Location
- Your Native Universe
Keep in mind that there's a huge difference between being made to make everything better, and being made because a girl wanted to run away from her past about accidentally shooting two children when she was younger.
There's also the case that when Kanna was made, she had no knowledge about the incident whatsoever, and that her parents either never brought it up, or were made to forget it as well. Her memories were false, her family was possibly lying to her, and the situation looked like Niko more or less created Kanna as a way run away from her former life.
Kanna's issues are less of being artificial, and more of the purpose of why she was made. It's why she relates so much with the clone Kazumi, as they were both made by people for ultimately desperate reasons that were really not for the best.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
And yet Niko's Wish was made with Hijiri's benefit in mind. The execution may have failed, but it doesn't sound like it was really through Niko's fault. How did Hijiri find out about all that shit in the first place?
Additionally, the details don't matter right now because we can't reveal them to Hijiri. All we'll be able to tell her is that we think we're the result of a Wish.
Yup, multi-purpose speech - everything we say currently is addressed to Hijiri-*, so we have to consider our words' effects on both Hijiri-A and Hijiri-H.
So, tactics.
- Ask to talk to Yuuri.
- Hijiri-A: No damage to Hijiri-A. Probably useful even past that.
- Hijiri-H: Key strategy, as discussed earlier. May tip her of
- Primary difficulty: Escalates between us and Hijiri-H.
- Get the memory device turned off.
- Hijiri-A: Some difficulty, will need her to feel safe first.
- Hijiri-H: Required, no downside.
- Preconditions: Needs Hijiri-A reassured.
- Let Hijiri-A know that she's not at risk of being tortured or experimented on.
- Hijiri-A: Useful.
- Hijiri-H: Actions like this probably play into her plan, whatever it is. Otherwise null.
- Thoughts: May piss off the Pleiades without careful phrasing. Need some thread discussion on the right way to do this. Phrasing our position as "We don't torture people, right?" might help if we get push-back.
- Proposed execution:
- Tell her that we made our Wish so that we could help all magical girls live peaceful lives.
- Tell her that we don't experiment on people, nor do we tolerate that behavior in other people.
- Really, what matters is making sure that nobody causes trouble for anyone else. You'd prefer to achieve that by obviating competition and resolving personal and interpersonal problems.
- Start on the therapy.
- Tell Hijiri-* that we're also somewhat artificial.
- Hijiri-A: Improves our credibility. Reassures her about her own status?
- Hijiri-H: Still useful; we'll want to therapy her after we're done anyway.
- Opsec: Damages the execution because we can't provide details.
- Other downsides: Toxic thread climate due to fundamental philosophical disagreements.
- Talk to Hijiri-* about Niko's Wish.
- Hijiri-A: Necessary.
- Hijiri-H: Useful for future.
- Question: What's the right level of disclosure here? As an obvious illustration of there being a limit, I don't think that we want to quote Niko's Wish at Hijiri.
- The two leading candidates are "Niko's wish was meant for your benefit" and, basically, "Niko's wish has relevance to this and you need to talk to her about it".
- Tell Hijiri-* that we're also somewhat artificial.
- Talk to Yuuri.
- Conversation goal: Gather information about Yuuri and Hijiri to establish (or refute) credibility and establish better models. Be proactive.
- Not sure what the right approach here is. Thoughts?
- Proposals:
- Point-blank ask her about her motives. I bet we could get a villainous monologue going and those are great for information.
- If she's anything like canon, try to use her hatred of the Pleiades to bait her into a stand-up fight? It'll be a trap, but I figure we can deal with that.
- Feed her ego, let her make mistakes. You're trying to gather information.
FlatlineAskari
*feline scrutiny*
- Location
- Elsewhere
- Pronouns
- Any
My first guess would be that Yuuri told her, in the hope that she'd go crazy, rather than just deciding to exit stage left on the whole mess.
Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
I'm not sure Firn will accept that as a vote though... It may be a tiny bit over the 150 word limit. 
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
I guess that feeds into my next question - How did Yuuri find out? I can't imagine that this whole thing is common knowledge, and I thought that Yuuri was basically a bystander for much of it.
Yeah, that's not a vote. That's me trying to actually sit down and think about this and hoping that other people do the same, 'cause our current votes all suck.I'm not sure Firn will accept that as a vote though... It may be a tiny bit over the 150 word limit.
- Location
- Auf dem Tisch
Do we have any hypotheses at all? We have strong conjecture based on evidence, but I'm not sure we can test or falsify any of it.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
To be specific, my major concern here is that stating this unequivocally will push Sayaka and Mami into thinking that we have additional information on this that we refused to share earlier - with Sayaka in particular, keeping those kinds of secrets from her is a sore spot that has already been repeatedly poked.
It also invites additional questions of just who/what we are from the Pleiades that aren't a particularly useful at this point in time.
If we do make the argument, I'd rather downplay the level of certainty to "who I am now is almost certainly because of someone else's magic influence", because that's the level of certainty that Sabrina can actually justify based on what she's already shared with everyone (amnesia doesn't work that way, preloaded with relevant knowledge).
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AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
It is worth noting, for better or worse, that Hijiri intrinsically values and trusts artificial humans more than normal people due to her issues, but (depending on whether or not its due to her grief spiralling), is prone to crushing on them too.
No one has actually mentioned 'torture' at all in the updates, and saying it is bad for optics all around. I think "No one needs to get hurt" would be a better line?
Might be too early to discuss this. We still have very little verifiable information, and Niko and Kanna still need to to have their talk before we propose any sort of care or therapy for her.
Maybe bluntly ask if its the seed (and just 'the seed', don't mention it's a clear seed) that she was after or was it something else?
FlatlineAskari
*feline scrutiny*
- Location
- Elsewhere
- Pronouns
- Any
I think we can get away with making a vague statement about Hijiri not being the only one who was created by magic; we know that's true-ish, which is probably enough. Kirika radically changed her personality and Oriko has an inside-out soul now. We certainly know some unspecified weird shit happened to our soul, too, although it might not necessarily be from a wish.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Hijiri potentially crushing on us is so far from relevant that I almost question why it needed to be brought up. Sabrina is not really in that similar a position to Hijiri compared to the cloned Kazumi, not being a "replacement" for anything at all.
Hypervene
Feelin' Some Sort Of Way
- Location
- Liminal
Well, yeah but. Jealous Mumi.
Which, hmm.
Totally not a shitpost nope
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Again, this is a serious situation, and our status wrt Mami is rock solid. There aren't going to be any stupid rom-com shenanigans, we'll just slap Hijiri down if she's dumb enough to push. (Which I seriously doubt. How the hell would that fit the situation tonally? Hijiri's nuts, but she isn't "run by a quest thread" levels of off the wall whacky.)