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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Oh gods, I had a terrible thought... what if she really is an experiment in this timeline? We neither asserted nor did Niko ever affirm Hijiri was the product of a wish.

...I know, I know, that would be entirely out of left field and Firn doesn't do that kind of thing without telegraphing. But I can't not think about these sorts of things. I fear I've been afflicted with Sufficient Paranoia. orz
 
DschingisKhan said:
Oh gods, I had a terrible thought... what if she really is an experiment in this timeline? We neither asserted nor did Niko ever affirm Hijiri was the product of a wish.

...I know, I know, that would be entirely out of left field and Firn doesn't do that kind of thing without telegraphing. But I can't not think about these sorts of things. I fear I've been afflicted with Sufficient Paranoia. orz
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She might not be an experiment to Niko due to the concern shown to her, but from their earlier comments, Niko might not quite think Hijiri is her own separate person.
"I- my friends know about her anyway," Niko says grudgingly. "But- she can't be. She can't be the enemy."
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"That doesn't sound like me," Niko says, frowning. "I wouldn't do that."

"But she's not you?" you say.

"Yes, she is," Niko says, expression slipping for a second. "Minus a few things."
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After all Niko's combat style is toss clones at the target until it dies (among other things). She might be thinking Hijiri is just another her and thus totally blindsided by the concept of Hijiri ever actually defying her.
 
I have an idea for how to open proceedings, in a somewhat manipulative but ultimately nice way, that might give us useful outcomes -

[] The memory device; how long has she been exposed to it? It's experimental, and we're concerned about side-effects.
[] Is she sure she can't disable it? (If she can't) if we loosen the restraints, can she drop it, move away from it, let us destroy it?

First, we're demonstrating concern for her wellbeing - she probably still sorta thinks Yuuri is on her side, which is dangerous for us both. If she gets the impression that Yuuri gave her radioactive waste to drag around, if we create doubt, undermine trust, that's a real result.
Second, it's a toe in the door when it comes to negotiation. If she's willing to trade anything, even dropping an earlier lie, even merely 'being less tied up in exchange for dropping something we could easily take away anyway', we're establishing that we're both reasonable people doing reasonable things reasonably. We can build on that. Start with harmless stuff, then escalate; classic interrogation play.
And third but not at all least, I really want the Brainfuck Box out of play. If she turns it off, good. If she doesn't turn it off and we can smash it, better. I can't be the only one who's suffering rampant paranoia about uncomfortable with that thing.
 
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angelofwhim said:
Guis, its tiem

To see

If Sabrinihugs can be par with mumihugs

[jk] huggle the hijiri
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But the memory field is in the way!

Hopefully Niko can deactivate it, else we might have to take it by force.

Only then can we hug Hijiri.

Mmm... I feel we're forgetting something, something about befriending, making sure Hijiri's not a threat, being in good terms, making up for things... but we probably can skip all that and go directly to hug town.

Should be OK!
 
Wait a second...

Sabrina's mom was there when she was born. That much is obvious.

Sabrina's other mom obviously had panic attacks and was out hunting Witches.

... Was Sayaka the obstetrician?
 
Onmur said:
But the memory field is in the way!

Hopefully Niko can deactivate it, else we might have to take it by force.

Only then can we hug Hijiri.

Mmm... I feel we're forgetting something, something about befriending, making sure Hijiri's not a threat, being in good terms, making up for things... but we probably can skip all that and go directly to hug town.

Should be OK!
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Mmm... I feel we're forgetting something, something about befriending, making sure Hijiri's not a threat, being in good terms, making up for things... but we probably can skip all that and go directly to hug town.
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befriending
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:V
 
Redshirt Army said:
To be specific, my major concern here is that stating this unequivocally will push Sayaka and Mami into thinking that we have additional information on this that we refused to share earlier - with Sayaka in particular, keeping those kinds of secrets from her is a sore spot that has already been repeatedly poked.

It also invites additional questions of just who/what we are from the Pleiades that aren't a particularly useful at this point in time.

If we do make the argument, I'd rather downplay the level of certainty to "who I am now is almost certainly because of someone else's magic influence", because that's the level of certainty that Sabrina can actually justify based on what she's already shared with everyone (amnesia doesn't work that way, preloaded with relevant knowledge).
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I'm not concerned about the "keeping secrets" part. Homura has her secrets, this counts as one of them, and Sayaka and Mami know that Homura has those secrets and that they aren't ours to share. Rather, I think that it's just that it's less convincing an argument when we can't share the details.

Anyway, condense ends and means into action:

[] Standing votes:
-[] Be empathybrina.
-[] Get Hijiri's witch name.
-[] Mediate.

[] Group telepathy: Yuuri might be behind this. Niko and Kazumi should be here, but everyone else keep looking.
-[] Keep people informed as you gather info.

  • Ask to talk to Yuuri.
    • Hijiri-A: No damage to Hijiri-A. Probably useful even past that.
    • Hijiri-H: Key strategy, as discussed earlier. May tip her of
    • Primary difficulty: Escalates between us and Hijiri-H.
  • Talk to Yuuri.
    • Conversation goal: Gather information about Yuuri and Hijiri to establish (or refute) credibility and establish better models. Be proactive.
    • Not sure what the right approach here is. Thoughts?
    • Proposals:
      • Point-blank ask her about her motives. I bet we could get a villainous monologue going and those are great for information.
      • If she's anything like canon, try to use her hatred of the Pleiades to bait her into a stand-up fight? It'll be a trap, but I figure we can deal with that.
      • Feed her ego, let her make mistakes. You're trying to gather information.
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[] Ask Hijiri to get you telepathy to Yuuri.
-[] Try to get Yuuri's motives. Provoke an evil monologue if you can.
  • Let Hijiri-A know that she's not at risk of being tortured or experimented on.
    • Hijiri-A: Useful.
    • Hijiri-H: Actions like this probably play into her plan, whatever it is. Otherwise null.
    • Thoughts: May piss off the Pleiades without careful phrasing. Need some thread discussion on the right way to do this. Phrasing our position as "We don't torture people, right?" might help if we get push-back.
    • Proposed execution:
      • Tell her that we made our Wish so that we could help all magical girls live peaceful lives.
      • Tell her that we don't experiment on people, nor do we tolerate that behavior in other people.
      • Really, what matters is making sure that nobody causes trouble for anyone else. You'd prefer to achieve that by obviating competition and resolving personal and interpersonal problems.
  • Start on the therapy.
    • Tell Hijiri-* that we're also somewhat artificial.
      • Hijiri-A: Improves our credibility. Reassures her about her own status?
      • Hijiri-H: Still useful; we'll want to therapy her after we're done anyway.
      • Opsec: Damages the execution because we can't provide details.
      • Other downsides: Toxic thread climate due to fundamental philosophical disagreements.
    • Talk to Hijiri-* about Niko's Wish.
      • Hijiri-A: Necessary.
      • Hijiri-H: Useful for future.
      • Question: What's the right level of disclosure here? As an obvious illustration of there being a limit, I don't think that we want to quote Niko's Wish at Hijiri.
        • The two leading candidates are "Niko's wish was meant for your benefit" and, basically, "Niko's wish has relevance to this and you need to talk to her about it".
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[] Reassure Hijiri. As long as she leaves other people alone, you can leave her alone.
-[] And that goes in both directions - no human experimentation where you can see it.
-[] Hypothesize about own origins.
-[] Talk to her about Niko's motives and Wish. No giving away secrets, but you can encourage discussion.
-[] Inquire about her Wish.
  • Get the memory device turned off.
    • Hijiri-A: Some difficulty, will need her to feel safe first.
    • Hijiri-H: Required, no downside.
    • Preconditions: Needs Hijiri-A reassured.
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[] Once Hijiri feels better, ask Niko how to turn the memory device off. Relay to or include Hijiri as appropriate.


Meeeeeeeeeeeeeh. I'm not sure we're going to be able to get a full vote that doesn't suck. Too much uncertainty, too many moving parts. Starting to think that we should go to fast short updates for this:

[] All allies: Update. Yuuri is involved. Stay alert.
[] Hijiri: Reassure. You want peace for all meguca. Human experimentation is right out.
[] Yuuri: Get connected by Hijiri. Ask her what she think she's doing.
[] Niko+Kazumi: Inform about Hijiri's claim and worry. Get memory device instructions.
[] Mami+Sayaka+Saki: Discuss. Something about Hijiri's story smells fishy.

Go just a few plies deep per conversation. We'll iterate as we get more information.
 
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Hmm. Rewrote Vebs "short update" approach to be more accessible.

[X] Use multitasking while updating everyone about Yuuri's involvement. Keep hunting?
-[X] Keep Niko and Kazumi updated on Hijiri's claims and stated motives. Be gentle and regretful when speaking to Niko. Get memory device instructions.
-[X] Telepathically confer with Mami, Sayaka, Saki. Hijiri's claimed motives don't match her actions. Malice, or ignorance?

[X] Reassure Hijiri that you want all magical girls to be able to have peaceful lives. Whatever the final resolution of this is, you'll ensure she's treated as a person throughout.
-[X] Ask Hijiri for a connection to Yuuri. Ask Yuuri what she thinks she's doing.

92 words.
 
[x] Redshirt Army

Yeah, I don't think that I was in a mood to write a real vote there and it came out a bit too terse. I like the edits. Maybe make it more clear that we're going for four- or six-fold parallelism? Right now I feel there's a risk of it being read in two serial blocks.
Muramasa said:
I'd rather catch Yuuri. I don't want her to be on to us.
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Anything we learn from Hijiri-H is a trap, so we can't really make much progress there until we've eliminated that hypothesis. Additionally, Hijiri-H would be informing Yuuri of anything she picks up.

...Oh. Huh. If Hijiri-H, we should probably be expecting Yuuri to try to gank us while we have Niko, Kazumi, and Sabrina all in one place.

Is it worthwhile to try to feed Hijiri some disinformation about our allies' positioning?
 
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[x] Redshirt Army

It's clear, it's concise, and it gives Brinapilot a little wiggle room.
 
@Redshirt Army: I just realized we lost the bit about checking Hijiri's witch name. Should fix that.

Also, caught this bit:
Firnagzen said:
"Saki, are you telling the rest of the Pleiades?" you pulse telepathically.

"Yes," Saki snaps. "They're coming."
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So we don't need to recap anything, but we should still take over - I think we probably want her focusing on analysis so she isn't being all angry while we be affable.

[] Check Hijiri's Witch name when possible.

[] Multitask. All of the following threads should be running:

[] Keep Niko and Kazumi updated on Hijiri's claims and stated motives while they make their way to you. Be gentle and regretful when speaking to Niko. Get memory device instructions.
[] Telepathically confer with Mami, Sayaka, Saki. Hijiri's claimed motives don't match her actions. Malice, or ignorance?
[] Take over updating everyone else so Saki can focus on analysis. Yuuri's still out there, so keep hunting and stay alert.

[] Reassure Hijiri that you want all magical girls to be able to have peaceful lives. Whatever the final resolution of this is, you'll ensure she's treated as a person throughout.
[] Ask Hijiri for a connection to Yuuri. Ask Yuuri what she thinks she's doing.

They really do need to be happening at the same time:
  • We need to be telling Niko and Kazumi about Hijiri's current state to minimize the chance of hostilities when they arrive.
  • We need Hijiri-H distracted so she can't talk to Yuuri.
  • We want Yuuri distracted so she isn't being evil or talking to Hijiri-H.
  • We want realtime analysis on the Hijiri situation from physically present allies.
  • We need to start addressing the Pleiades' anger, and being Suspicious should help there.
  • We need everyone to know that
For some reason I'm envisioning Sayaka smugging hard at Saki when we announce suspicion. Like, "I told you she wasn't a pushover." Ahah, and we even set it up a bit - we told Sayaka to be ready for a breakout, so Sayaka already knows we're being sneaky. This should be good.
 
[X] Redshirt Army

I presume we'll be prepared to gem snatch the second she betrays us?

(Well, if she betrays us.)
 
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