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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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So, a random thought.

If Sabrina really is Walpurgis (a theory I personally buy into) is she a single timeline's Wally, or the amalgamation of all the Walpurgis' across all the loops Homumom's gone through?

Because if it's the latter, there's a chance that Homura's gone through one, or even multiple, timelines wherein Mami witched out, and Candeloro wasn't... neutralized before All Witches Night rolled into town. And thus, absorbed into Walpurgis.

This would mean that Sabrina has past versions of Mami somewhere in the depths of her soul.

I don't really know what the implications are, or how I came up with this. Just wanted to put it out there.
 
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Shadowhisker said:
So, a random thought.

If Sabrina really is Walpurgis (a theory I personally buy into) is she a single timeline's Wally, or the amalgamation of all the Walpurgis' across all the loops Homumom's gone through?

Because if it's the latter, there's a chance that Homura's gone through one, or even multiple, timelines wherein Mami witched out, and Candeloro wasn't... neutralized before All Witches Night rolled into town. And thus, absorbed into Walpurgis.

This would mean that Sabrina has past versions of Mami somewhere in the depths of her soul.

I don't really know what the implications are, or how I came up with this. Just wanted to put it out there.
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Hmm. Your random thought got me thinking a random thought: We can take witches apart, but could we put one together? It'd probably take a more detailed understanding of Witch anatomy (such as it is), but they are primarily just huge balls of Grief.
 
Always Happening said:
Hmm. Your random thought got me thinking a random thought: We can take witches apart, but could we put one together? It'd probably take a more detailed understanding of Witch anatomy (such as it is), but they are primarily just huge balls of Grief.
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I'm not to sure about that. Their main mass is grief, yes, but the core of a witch seems to be a broken soul; whether that of a meguca or a few ordinary humans (in the case of familiar-born Witches).

Something like a wraith or familiar might be possible, though. Creating a grief based A.I. would be a good step forwards. Something for the future?
 
Shadowhisker said:
I'm not to sure about that. Their main mass is grief, yes, but the core of a witch seems to be a broken soul; whether that of a meguca or a few ordinary humans (in the case of familiar-born Witches).

Something like a wraith or familiar might be possible, though. Creating a grief based A.I. would be a good step forwards. Something for the future?
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When we tried to control a witches Familiar, it was a similar sensation that we just got from Mami putting her magic in us - but instead of it being our loving G-g-g-girlfriend it was a Giant Monster of Pure Despair and Self-Loathing.

Which suggests that we could make our own familiars by combining enchantment and Grief Control. The real question is if we could control them, how long it would take to create them, and what our friends reactions to the idea would be.
 
Shadowhisker said:
If Sabrina really is Walpurgis (a theory I personally buy into)
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Why do we think Sabrina is Walpurgis?

I think I saw a theory recently that Walpurgis might be Joan of Arc.
Wikipedia says Walpurgis (St Walpurga) was a nun who died in the eighth century in Germany.
And of course in canon Walpurgis is a really bad witch. (Is that right?)
None of these seem to share many traits with Sabrina.
 
Wirikidor said:
Why do we think Sabrina is Walpurgis?

I think I saw a theory recently that Walpurgis might be Joan of Arc.
Wikipedia says Walpurgis (St Walpurga) was a nun who died in the eighth century in Germany.
And of course in canon Walpurgis is a really bad witch. (Is that right?)
None of these seem to share many traits with Sabrina.
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Well, I'm far to tired to dig up the specifics, but I'll see what I can remember off the top of my head.

On Joan of Arc, according to a half remembered translation, all the signs were pointing towards her being the "root" witch for Walpurgisnacht, possibly along with Riz Harkwood. But then Riz got trapped in a pocket universe for all eternity, and Jean was burned at the stake. Instead of witching out due to magic overuse, she used some sort of (possibly narrative) bullshit to ascend to Madokahalla. This is despite the fact that Madokahalla, let alone Madoka herself, wouldn't come into existence for several centuries. Not sure whether Firn's using that for PMAS canon, though.

As for St. Walpurga, "Walpurgis" is actually a nickname for the stage-constructing witch, with her full appellation being "Walpurgisnacht", the German Festival of Witches. (A festival that showed up in Faust, as a matter of fact.) Her true name is unknown.

And finally, Sabrina as Wally. I think that the theory goes that when Past-loop!Madoka wished that everything could be fixed, Wal-Mart Night was used as "raw materials" to make a girl that could fulfill that purpose- Sabrina. This explains why she/we have such strange potential (Walpurgis is made up of at least a hundred magical girls, send that's before we take into account Madoka's influence, or Jean "potential of all of France" Tart), why we think with the minds of hundred people (self explanatory), or our narrative outlook on life (it's all part of the script, after all).
 
Onmur said:
So something unrelated: Kagari Hinata.

The one girl who's so totally EVIL she dedicates her life to fucking up Suzune's life, to the point of plotting her own Witch out... because.

I remember talks about how, since she's got OP HAX memory magic, and is shown to be absurdly, irredeemable EVIL, she was the one meguca that should be killed on sight, without giving her a chance to do anything.
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I don't think we should ever have to kill anybody. We should just take their Soul Gem, and promise their friends that we'll give it back in a month.

A lot can happen in a month. In a month, we'll have fought Walpurgisnight and Feathers, and hopefully also Broken the System. In a month's time, magical girls might not even be a thing any more -- and if they are a thing, we'll have ways to handle them.

I think we should have done this to Akiko.

Of course there are problems with flying in to Asunaro and pwning Hinata from timestop -- that would generate more enemies than it would remove.

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Are our memories stored in our brain or in our Soul Gem? If we encase our Soul Gem in Grief (or, haha, even just in lead), will that protect us?

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I guess the other problem is that protecting our memories isn't enough. We would need to protect the memories of everyone Hinata has access to; otherwise she can just make them all think we're the enemy.
 
Kagari Hinata doesn't just do fast, potent, ranged memory fuckery though.

We see her go full Aizen in terms of perception manipulation in the manga, and she's powerful/skilled enough at it to pierce through her sister's magic - the sister who literally wished to be able to see.

I don't trust Sabrina's incidental sensory powers to penetrate an illusion that a Wish entirely devoted to vision couldn't, and perception fuckery translates fine to a quest format, so I doubt we're immune to it like we (probably) are to the memory stuff. And yes, she can probably rewrite Homura to think we're Oriko V 2.0 if we give her any time to work with.

Of course, if she's not contracted yet then the threat is minimized, but all signs point to her having been a sociopath even before then.
 
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Torgamous said:
We really need to get around to making a Grief tinfoil hat at some point.
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I'm counting grief constructs under "incidental sensory powers", as it happens. Sabrina's constructs are not impermeable to magic, as Kyouko cutting through our grief shows, and Hinata's powers are the most powerful mind manipulation we see in the entire extended series. Them breaking through our construct is entirely possible, seeing as we see them pierce a dedicated wish against them, which should be a harder feat.
 
Torgamous said:
Sabrina's constructs do what we tell them to. I don't recall ever making a construct that was supposed to be impermeable to spears.
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Her constructs have limits. When we made a sensory booster, it only boosted her sensory range by 100 meters, instead of covering the whole city/country/planet. There's plenty of other examples. Don't fall for a No Limits Fallacy.
 
Personally, what I'm getting from this is that we can't trust any defenses we put up to stop her. Might as well put them up anyway, because they could work. There's just a good chance they won't.

What we need to do is get the drop on her. Act first. Can't mind-fuck us if she's gemmed and/or dead.
 
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Time Stop.
Go to her.
Burst/snipe her Gem. If she's still human, find a non-obvious way to instakill her.
Leave Time Stop.

It's not like Homura would object, and Kagari is absurdly dangerous. Biggest concern is making sure no one close to her realizes who did this and comes for ill-conceived vengeance.
 
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We still need something for mind controllers that aren't serial killers. It would be nice to know what we can and can't do beforehand instead of waiting until after it becomes vitally important.
 
Torgamous said:
We still need something for mind controllers that aren't serial killers. It would be nice to know what we can and can't do beforehand instead of waiting until after it becomes vitally important.
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Maybe some sort of collaborative enchantment? I'm thinking Umika, that animal-controlling chick, and Mami for sheer experience?
 
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