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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Onmur said:
I'm iffy about making the Privacy Sphere right now. It would be... an amount of minutes' worth of trance.

And we've got Homu at hand. We can pay her for timestop time in hugs. :p
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Right, but we should use the privacy sphere more often than we actually need it as a way of obscuring the information Kyuubey can collect. If he measures where and when we drop off the network (into a privacy sphere or construct) he can glean some data - not all of it, but potentially enough that he can narrow down what we might be discussing inside it.

It's pretty basic information warfare tactics. Kyuubey is OpFor and likely will remain so for at least the duration of the quest if not for the rest of time, so we need to establish plausible deniability in regards to what we discuss in the sphere and how long we discuss it.

TBH it'd probably be even better to go home and snuggle Mumi in one, if not exactly an efficient use of time and energy. Just as long as Kyuubey has difficulty establishing a pattern. I'll be willing to bet he has some way of knowing we built one even if we do it completely within timestop, even if it's just our grief cloud shuddering slightly when we don't replace it to molecularly the exact same place.

Vebyast said:
TBH, we should have Haruka in the room and backing us up when we read in any other parents. Having a respected second opinion goes a long way.
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Maybe. Something to discuss with Sayaka, who knows her parents better than we do. Miho seemed fairly normal in canon, so I suspect she won't go completely bonkers, but we didn't see much of her at all so it's hard to get a good read.

There's also the factor that Hitomi isn't a meguca so there might be some resentment there. I don't think she'll flip out, but I think Haruka's uses would be limited in such a situation - maybe another meguca's parents would fare better. One of the Pleiades?

Vebyast said:
[x] When we have a moment, not urgent, just everyone is in one place and you wanted to get the ball rolling on some stuff.

[x] Get Kazumi and Sayaka to copy the privacy sphere.
-[x] Joke about naming it. Information warfare is warfare, after all, and the privacy sphere is a powerful attack.

[x] In privacy sphere: Homura timestop so you have more time.
-[x] Wanted to share your metaknowledge around more. You still don't feel good about keeping it a secret.
-[x] Hitomi, Sayaka, maybe the Asunarians.
-[x] Either tonight, with everyone here and the privacy sphere already up, or maybe another day?

[x] Check if anyone has anything they want to talk about themselves.

[x] Hold Homura for a second afterward in TS, make sure she's still doing okay.

[x] Pull Sayaka into the privacy sphere and find out if she's Rebellion-aware.

Maximum privacy-sphere mileage?

Not really sure what else would go into this vote.
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I don't think that last one is necessary. Didn't we already poke Sayaka on the issue a few updates ago? Let me check.

As far as Kazumi copying it, wouldn't that involve bringing her into timestop? I feel like Sayaka might get a bit miffed if we let in Kazumi, who we just met, at the same time we let in her, who we've known for weeks, on the metabomb.

Also we should bring up making money with Homura and Mami and Madoka. Just to get them started thinking on the subject - the younger a person starts thinking about their future finances, the bigger those finances are likely to be, after all. It might also give Madoka a out as far as contribution, if she can find a suitably lucrative job and contribute to the Hotel's coffers.
 
Matou Sutegobana said:
Yes we do, but their business is not legitimate.
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Even the least caster-type Magical Girl can do healing and enchantment, and both of those are spectacular value-adds in a business operation. Like, have the girl come into a factory in the middle of the night to heal and augment the machines, low seven figure salary right there. A enchantment like "Don't hurt people" would be absolutely amazing.
Torgamous said:
Like, move the region of all-consuming blackness up next to her, then pop out and drag her in?
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Karnewarrior said:
As far as Kazumi copying it, wouldn't that involve bringing her into timestop?
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Why would we have to pull Kazumi into timestop for her to copy the privacy sphere? The time stop is completely unnecessary from a secrecy POV, it's really just there so we're not spending two hours in the sphere talking before we go home.
Karnewarrior said:
I feel like Sayaka might get a bit miffed if we let in Kazumi, who we just met, at the same time we let in her, who we've known for weeks, on the metabomb.
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Sayaka would realize that we're rolling it out basically as fast as we can without overloading people. Mami knows Kazumi from way back. And on top of all that, meta-information fundamentally messes with logic like "who we've just met"; as a concrete example, we pulled in Homura literally the first night, back when she and Sayaka were still on fighting terms. I do not think that this is a reasonable concern.
Karnewarrior said:
There's also the factor that Hitomi isn't a meguca so there might be some resentment there.
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I don't follow the logic here at all.
Karnewarrior said:
One of the Pleiades?
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The Pleiades having unanimously dropped out of school strongly suggests to me that they're short some parents. I don't actually know, though, haven't read PMKM.
Karnewarrior said:
I don't think that last one is necessary. Didn't we already poke Sayaka on the issue a few updates ago? Let me check.
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We did not. We dropped some memetic terminology into a conversation, but in a sufficiently contextually-appropriate manner that I think Sayaka would not have caught it as a signal.

In fact, if she is an angel, we're probably trolling her just as hard as she's trolling us.
 
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Re: Resentment, I think that if Sayaka's parents have a negative "our daughter shouldn't be doing dangerous shit" reaction, than they may not appreciate Hitomi's mom, who's daughter is not and can not participate in said dangerous shenanigans, trying to tell them it'll be fine. It's the same sort of principle that makes a homeless man distrust the rich guy telling him things will get better.

It's not guaranteed but it's something we should be aware of if we do end up bringing in Haruka.

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AuraTwilight said:
Um. Moiderah entirely invented Miho for Sayaka Quest. Canonically we never see Sayaka's parents in any way.
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Really? I thought we got a few glimpses of her around the time of Sayaka's funeral.

I guess I must have swapped her out for Junko at some point.
 
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Firnagzen said:
What

No, really, what

The hell even gave you that impression?

Look, the rules and the mods aren't that stupid. They don't ban things like teenaged sexuality being depicted, they ban them from being depicted in a way that isn't tasteful. Yes, tastefulness is a subjective line, but there's a generally agreed boundary for teenagers that, while significantly less generous than for adults, is nowhere near that restrictive.
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This was an actual thing, that actually happened with Asuka Quest on SB. One kiss in the entire quest by order of the mods. Seriously.
 
Thought: Sayaka copying Kazumi's power to copy other effects should work as an effective workaround to her not being able to copy our power. We should get them both set up with the 'pull grief out of Soul Gems' effect ASAP. Also, we're going to need to get them in on the Science Round Table, because that could serve as the basis for enchanting e.g. Jyuubeys.

Also, apropos of nothing (actually apropos of the PM discussion of a previous topic in the thread): Could Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann defeat the Witch of Despair (UKG)?
 
Karnewarrior said:
Re: Resentment, I think that if Sayaka's parents have a negative "our daughter shouldn't be doing dangerous shit" reaction, than they may not appreciate Hitomi's mom, who's daughter is not and can not participate in said dangerous shenanigans, trying to tell them it'll be fine. It's the same sort of principle that makes a homeless man distrust the rich guy telling him things will get better.
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Except that Haruka's done it herself and therefore has the best perspective on the matter. And I don't think Haruka would tell them that "it'll be fine"; not only is that a terrible argument, I expect that this will be after we've read her in on the grand plan and everything that requires it and enables it, and there's not really any way to say that everything will be "fine" after that. I expect Haruka to tell them that it's dangerous in absolute terms, but that Sayaka has the best possible backup and that it'll be handled competently and effectively. Which is pretty much the same message that I think we plan to give to Haruka.
 
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Wait a second. Is Hitomi's arm still in a cast? Because now that there's no more need for secrecy, we can just heal it completely.
 
Let's not forget to have that private talk with Homura once we have the time...

... Anyway, she must be feeling down for not having noticed Hitomi's mom knew about meguca for so long. And we need to ask more about last timeloop, to see if we can find more divergences... And I'd like to ask Homu if she thought more about happiness... and really, there's a lot of things to talk with Homu.
 
So, this aforementioned PM symposium has actually been quite fruitful, but it made me realize something about Sabrina's proposed Pax Meguca:

Myself said:
[...] I've theorized in the past about Rebellion/Wraiths, and I'm pretty sure that the Grief Cube system simply didn't generate enough energy to completely counteract entropy, forcing them to switch over when Homura presented them with the more efficient alternative. Consider [...] that Incubators collect energy from Magical Girls in three stages (ranked by approximate output):
-Contract (Generation of negentropic Hope energy via fulfillment of Wish) (2)
-Hunting (Grief seeds are collected from Witches and topped off with Grief from Soul Gems before being delivered to Kyuubey) (3)
-Apotheosis (Generation of negentropic Despair energy via metamorphosis into a new Witch; a new Grief Seed is (almost always) formed to perpetuate the ecosystem) (1)

Because Grief Cubes aren't derived from human souls, their energy density is implicitly much lower than Grief Seeds (putting them at a hypothetical 4), and energy that would be derived from apotheosis (the system's primary breadwinner) is lost entirely to the Law of Cycles. There may also be some quantity (somewhere between 3-5) of energy released when a Familiar devours enough despair/human souls to metamorphose into a full Witch, which would also be lost (on account of Witches being de facto nonexistent).
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Since Witches are verboten in our new world order, people have proposed just feeding Kyuubey the Grief collected from global cleansing, possibly whipping up something analogous to Grief Cubes once the Grief Seed supply dries up. This isn't even remotely enough energy for the Incubators to keep the universe ticking: Even in a society where meguca are shamelessly spamming magic everywhere continuously, cleansing would be a remote 6 on the energy scale (bearing in mind that there's already a huge power gap between 2 and 3), while simultaneously eliminating every other energy source besides new contracts (and there have been proposals to bar Kyuubey from recruiting as well, like the global Anti-Kyuubey Memory Barrier Network).

This is why Kyuubey says that hunting Witches would be a more efficient use of our time relative to his energy quota; not because he's some sort of soulless paperclip maximizer, but because what we're proposing is barely a drop in the bucket to him. For those of you who consider Kyuubey's modus operandi (forestall entropy) to be relevant and a thing we give two shits about, how would we allay this concern?
 
Always Happening said:
So, this aforementioned PM symposium has actually been quite fruitful, but it made me realize something about Sabrina's proposed Pax Meguca:



Since Witches are verboten in our new world order, people have proposed just feeding Kyuubey the Grief collected from global cleansing, possibly whipping up something analogous to Grief Cubes once the Grief Seed supply dries up. This isn't even remotely enough energy for the Incubators to keep the universe ticking: Even in a society where meguca are shamelessly spamming magic everywhere continuously, cleansing would be a remote 6 on the energy scale (bearing in mind that there's already a huge power gap between 2 and 3), while simultaneously eliminating every other energy source besides new contracts (and there have been proposals to bar Kyuubey from recruiting as well, like the global Anti-Kyuubey Memory Barrier Network).

This is why Kyuubey says that hunting Witches would be a more efficient use of our time relative to his energy quota; not because he's some sort of soulless paperclip maximizer, but because what we're proposing is barely a drop in the bucket to him. For those of you who consider Kyuubey's modus operandi (forestall entropy) to be relevant and a thing we give two shits about, how would we allay this concern?
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Don't forget our 'new world order' will only actually reach our world, not the universe.

And if we really want our World to not have Witches, it'll always be up to SCIENCE! to find a solution to Kyuubey's obvious interference.

If we put our mind to finding new ways to create Grief, specially once we've got help from many meguca, I'm sure we can find a way to appease KB enough.

After that, if Sabrina feels the need to go save the whole universe, well, the time it'll take her to expand that much will also be time she gets to find new and improved ways to generate energy.

Of course, most of that is not the concern of this quest, except for what we get to do, if only to make it part of Sabrina's goals. My only actual worry is that whatever Grief/energy generation Sabrina manages to SCIENCE! up, will have to be non-stealable by the Incubators...
 
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