Crasion01-
That's not entirely true even for ordinary humans. Many a general in history has been able to suceed because he anticipated the enemy's plans, often through knowledge of their psyche. With only ordinary knowledge there are limits, but Otto Von Bismarck and Cavour the Savoyard politician are proof long term plans can be created through a knowledge of the situation and the major players. Both of them had long term plans towards their goal- they suffered setbacks at times, but were able to adjust based on a long term plan.

Ours isn't an ordinary situation, however. Watching PMMM gives us a much better understanding of these girls than an ordinary person could ever have of another person. As Ugolino pointed out, we have had a front row seat to Sayaka's breakdown. We've seen how all of these girls behave under stress. We've even seen their internal thought processes!

In addition, we have Akemi Homura. Homura has gone through hundreds of timelines, and so should be able to predict these people even better. Being fourteen she doesn't have a collective brain as good as ours, but she has a lot more knowledge than we do. If we'd coordinated and swapped notes as it were, we would be in a much better posistion.

Also noting you haven't adressed the fact I think the matchmaker plot is morally henious according to the very virtue ethics Sabrina follows.

Cannongerbil-
I don't back down when I'm right (o.k if the stakes was something like execution I would, but that's a different matter). And I'm willing to accept being hated as a price of this. Therefore you have no rational argument against what I'm doing.

Random832-
If I were to simply state my conclusions, you would have no idea why I wanted to do what I wanted to do. If I were to try and give simplistic reasoning, I would be disrespecting you people by flat out lying about my motivation. For clarification, at this point, what I am advocating is simple: Put a stop to the plan to set up Madoka Kaname and Homura Akemi. Why is a lot more complicated, but basically I'm claiming it morally wrong.

People attacked my earlier plans as being OOC for Sabrina, so I'm using that same standard to attack them for something which logically should be OOC if Sabrina knows Virtue Ethics. I'm not trying to bludgeon the GM- I'm trying to persuade the players. I'm not going to attack the GM for writing out the player vote no matter how OOC it is- just the players who voted for it.
Please stop. You are making this incredibly unenjoyable, and I don't think you're persuading anyone.
 
People asking me to stop- I am honestly trying to help us make the best decisions for Sabrina we can the only way I know how. I've been training myself to try and remove the boundaries in my mind so I can apply the logical conclusions of one area to another (e.g.- philosophical Ethics to absolutely everything). A hypothetical me who did would be a shit philosopher.

I am trying to help you people. I swear.

EDIT: As for my Archive Binge, I'm trying but it's tricky due to cosntant interruptions on my end.
 
People asking me to stop- I am honestly trying to help us make the best decisions for Sabrina we can the only way I know how. I've been training myself to try and remove the boundaries in my mind so I can apply the logical conclusions of one area to another (e.g.- philosophical Ethics to absolutely everything). A hypothetical me who did would be a shit philosopher.

I am trying to help you people. I swear.
You're still making this unenjoyable. I, at least, find the thread more unpleasant then before you started up with this. Regardless of your intentions, we don't want your help.
 
For fuck's sake, is this all about shipping?

ARGUMENT A: Noting this is an argument which should be clear enough someone like myself, linkhyrule5, or AuraTwilight MUST be able to comprehend it. Assuming we are trying to apply virtue ethics or deontology to a situation, we would most DEFINITELY think of it.
Premise: Human beings have a right to make their own decisions about their love lives.
Premise: By trying to set up Homura Akemi with Madoka Kaname, we are going against how she wants her to behave in a matter of her own love life.
Conclusion: We are violating her rights.

People don't exist in a vacuum. Our "plan", such as there is a plan at all, does not involve any form of coercion. People having the right to make their own decisions doesn't mean nobody has the right to do or say anything that might affect the outcome.

Personally, I think it's a waste of time and possibly counterproductive, but morally wrong? To take your argument to its logical conclusion, you might as well never leave your room, since your presence in the world is sure to influence someone's opinion about something they have a right to make their own decision about.
 
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For fuck's sake, is this all about shipping?



People don't exist in a vacuum. Our "plan", such as there is a plan at all, does not involve any form of coercion. People having the right to make their own decisions doesn't mean nobody has the right to do or say anything that might influence the outcome.

Extreme social pressure combined with nominal consent has forced ludicrous numbers of arranged marriages throughout European and Western history. The threat of disinheritance can be a powerful force. It may not be the same thing as coercion, but it is of the same kind.

Tell me, where do you draw the line when it comes to social pressure? When, to your mind, does it become harrasment to try and set up this ship? Homura has already refused our efforts once, and would refuse again if we asked. How many times does it take. Five? Ten? Twenty?

Technically it's 'about shipping' in that I am opposing shipping, so your use of language is debatble.
 
Extreme social pressure combined with nominal consent has forced ludicrous numbers of arranged marriages throughout European and Western history. The threat of disinheritance can be a powerful force. It may not be the same thing as coercion, but it is of the same kind.

Tell me, where do you draw the line when it comes to social pressure? When, to your mind, does it become harrasment to try and set up this ship? Homura has already refused our efforts once, and would refuse again if we asked. How many times does it take. Five? Ten? Twenty?

Technically it's 'about shipping' in that I am opposing shipping, so your use of language is debatble.
Please stop. You have made your point. Continuing with this is repetitive and annoying.
 
ComCom 17.2/3; disrupting the thread
A mod has given me a warning, I'll admit here and now. But it would be argument from authority to assume the mods are right. Several people are arguing against me, implying that they want to continue the arguments rather than have them arbitrarily cut off. It would be unjustifiably rude of me to just stop arguing given others want to keep going.
 
A mod has given me a warning, I'll admit here and now. But it would be argument from authority to assume the mods are right. Several people are arguing against me, implying that they want to continue the arguments rather than have them arbitrarily cut off. It would be unjustifiably rude of me to just stop arguing given others want to keep going.
Several people also want you to stop.
 
Metaphorically speaking, I am in several conversations simultaneously. If somebody in one conversation wants me to just walk out of another conversation, that gives me no excuse to do so.
Then move it to PM. If multiple people do not wish to hear, then moving to a more private location is reasonable.
 
Then move it to PM. If multiple people do not wish to hear, then moving to a more private location is reasonable.

I was a bit worried because I thought others would want to see this. If anyone I'm arguing with wants to PM me instead and argue there, I'm fine with that. If they prefer to argue it on the thread, however, I will so as not to break the proper rules of an argument.

---------------------

EDIT: As for making Oriko and Mami friends- as a short term idea I actually agree with that.
 
I was a bit worried because I thought others would want to see this.
pro tip: No one here does. If they did, they would have already told you about it. But everyone time and again have told you they don't want to hear or see about what you're currently talking about (Ethics and stuff). But here we are. Still arguing about the same thing that the mods have intervene before.

Now I'm starting to think that you're trolling people and doing this because it amuses you. Please. Stop.

One Mod intervention is bad enough, let's not have another one.
 
pro tip: No one here does. If they did, they would have already told you about it. But everyone time and again have told you they don't want to hear or see about what you're currently talking about (Ethics and stuff). But here we are. Still arguing about the same thing that the mods have intervene before.

Now I'm starting to think that you're trolling people and doing this because it amuses you. Please. Stop.

One Mod intervention is bad enough, let's not have another one.

Ok ok! Except if somebody insists on arguing in the thread, I promise to take it to PMs. I just needed to be sure there wasn't anyone here who wanted to hear what I was saying.
 
-[X] Maybe something Italian?
[X] Talk to Homura
-[X] COOKING!
-[X] Get Mami involved. You must hatch a plan to make Homura healthier and not noodly and stuff! Maybe something involving coconuts. Coconuts? Coconuts. Coconuts.
[X] Telepathy Mami
-[X] Ask how she's holding up.
[X] Movie night!
[X] Wonder out loud about the FUTURE known as Microwavable tea.
 
Ok ok! Except if somebody insists on arguing in the thread, I promise to take it to PMs. I just needed to be sure there wasn't anyone here who wanted to hear what I was saying.
The difference in this case is that I assumed we were treating the concepts of friends broadly. Most girls at this age don't know the difference between 'friends' and 'working relationship'. Forcing the latter is necessary for the sake of the cause.
:facepalm:
 
*5 hours ago at work*

Oh hey, Firn made a post! Something to look forward to at the end of a stressful day! I'mma read it later, so I can read it without alt-tabbing every five seconds and enjoy it more!

*back home*

Ah, more slice of life! Still walking on thin ice, but after the Mami-meltdownTM, it sure is nice to read these mome-
*5 pages of:*


What the fuck am I reading

[x] Cook
-[x] Maybe something Italian?
[x] Add numbers to your phone and to speed-dial. Be creative about ringtones if your phone allows it.
[x] Talk to Homura
-[x] COOKING!
-[x] Get Mami involved. You must hatch a plan to make Homura healthier and not noodly and stuff!
[x] Telepathy Mami
-[x] Ask how she's holding up.
[x] Talk to everyone over dinner:
- [x] Lighthearted topics, encourage Homura to join in
- [x] Check the evening news for any noteworthy stories
 
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What the fuck am I reading
...Words? :V

But don't worry. The main reason for the long-ass derail has finally agree to take things to the PMs. As long as no one pokes him/set him off we're golden.

Anyway, here's vote I'm pushing for. There's also a silly coconut vote if that's more your thing.

[] Cook
-[] Maybe something Italian?
[] Talk to Homura
-[] COOKING!
-[] Get Mami involved. You must hatch a plan to make Homura healthier and not noodly and stuff!
[] Telepathy Mami
-[] Ask how she's holding up.
[] Talk to everyone:
- [] Subtly mention Oriko's secret warehouse of stuff. Gauge their reactions.

-[] Maybe something Italian?
[] Talk to Homura
-[] COOKING!
-[] Get Mami involved. You must hatch a plan to make Homura healthier and not noodly and stuff! Maybe something involving coconuts. Coconuts? Coconuts. Coconuts.
[] Telepathy Mami
-[] Ask how she's holding up.
[] Movie night!
[] Wonder out loud about the FUTURE known as Microwavable tea.

EDIT: Whoops. Copied the wrong vote.
 
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