The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
But you still have the problem of giving huge hype to a girl who's looking down on herself.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You need to find a clone power that lets her make a million independently operating clones before you can make that claim. As it is you're counting your chickens before we've confirmed the existence of eggs.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
If it's not cloning, it'll be power boosting or a super multitasking power or a systems analysis thinker power or a genetic engineering power or a macrotelekinesis power or insect control any one of literally dozens or thousands of powers that could be applied on a large scale but for lack of cleansing or ambition or leverage. The question isn't whether Sayaka will find a power or set of powers that she can apply on the scale we're talking about. It's about when and what, because there's just so much potential and so many options that it's guaranteed to happen eventually.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Our she'll have a way to apply her power more precisely, or spread the load out over time or focus it for improved efficiency, or act at an earlier stage of the process to amplify the ultimate result, or find one of those grief-distribution powers that Nadia talked about and Sabrina draws off an entire stadium of other meguca, or a minor time manipulation power so she can delay it giving Sabrina time to set up for it, or something else I haven't even thought of yet. Again, simple variety nearly guarantees a solution of some kind.
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Zedman7054
Eternally 3rd
- Location
- United States
Why can i just see Sabrina making a Kamina-style epic speech (like there's any other kind) with grief sunglasses and a cape fluttering in a non-existent wind to...well every magical girl she meets?
Oh right, because she would.
Motile Mollusc
Bitten by a radioactive were-tilde
- Location
- Here
Duh. Why else did we create the utility fog, if not for cape-fluttering speeches?
"Hey, Sayaka, instead of fighting with us, how would you like to run the planet? Not the nations, the actual planet?"
"We don't learn how to do that until highschool though. I should probably wait until then and help you guys with Witchs and stuff in the meantime!"
Always Happening
We could have prevented this.
- Location
- On a train with no brakes
As much as I hate to leave Mami out of things (since we kind of have to, in this case), I'd like for Sabrina, Homura, Sayaka, Niko, and Umika to have an occlusion-sphered, time-stopped, sworn-to-secrecy SCIENCE talk at some point in the not too distant future. With Umika's magic, we can enchant rings/trinkets to enforce that secrecy, and then drop the witchbomb on them. Between the five of us, there's essentially nothing we can't do, and we need to get down to brass tacks on dewitching before immigration flow robs us of literally all of our free time.
Soulguca may be the missing piece we need (when does she arrive, again?), but we can lay a lot of experimental groundwork in the meantime.
EDIT: Also, we really need to drop a Rockman reference on Sayaka at some point. She is literally our Blue Bomber.
Soulguca may be the missing piece we need (when does she arrive, again?), but we can lay a lot of experimental groundwork in the meantime.
EDIT: Also, we really need to drop a Rockman reference on Sayaka at some point. She is literally our Blue Bomber.
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AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
I'm...NOT certain about involving Sayaka in the Witchbomb Science session, but otherwise i'm 100% on board with that idea.
Always Happening
We could have prevented this.
- Location
- On a train with no brakes
I'm not totally certain about it either, but as we've just been discussing, Sayaka is bullshit versatile, and that's a good thing to have in the field of theoretical thaumatology. We could, in fact, let on to her now that she's going to be invaluable to us in a hugely important undertaking within the next week or so, and that befriending the Pleiades was an important step in that undertaking. If she wants to know more about what we're on about, or how we have this uncanny knack for just knowing stuff, we can segue cleanly into the metabomb. It doesn't have to be traumatic or mood-ruining; we can appeal to Sayaka's sense of justice and heroism. We are literally the chosen ones fighting the evil empire, and unlike Witches, they're not something that can be overcome with hard power alone. She may not realize it, but soft power is something she has in spades, more so than potentially anyone we know.
Nolrai
weak to fangs
- Location
- Porltand
Its too much, focus on two of those points maybe?
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It doesn't matter, because you're still getting WAY ahead of yourself. Sayaka isn't going to believe that she could do something like that. It's also not the sort of thing she could envision herself doing. Even if it ends up being true, it's the kind of thing that would only be attempted YEARS down the line, which makes it totally irrelevant to Sayaka right now.
Please, drop it. It's only going to distract away from the points we need to make.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
It is necessary and critical to our point. Right now Sayaka's problem is that she thinks she's only good for fighting. Her idea of what's possible is far too limited and our fundamental task is to expand it. You don't do that by showing her things that are within her experience. You do it by going beyond what she thinks is possible. These ideas don't even need to be guaranteed to work; if they're even vaguely plausible they will serve to get Sayaka in the mindset she needs to explore the infinite creativity that her power affords her. Exposing her to these kinds of extreme possibilities is not just effective, it is the only way this will work at all.
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Reassure Sayaka. She is standing with you. "Let me explain some things to you."
[x] Put things in perspective. She's comparing herself to several of the best magical girls around. And whatever she thinks, it's only a matter of practice for her to match them.
-[x] Elaborate as appropriate. There are more ways to be a hero than fighting, especially with superpowers. Healing, teleportation, peacekeeping, disaster relief, you name it. She made a damn good Wish for making a difference.
-[x] What Mami needs most isn't a powerful ally, but a good friend. What Homura needs most is someone she can rely upon. Sabrina needs someone who can be there for others when she can't be there herself. Sayaka is already making good strides towards that. She'll be a powerful teammate regardless, and that's always helpful, but now she can be both. She only feels like she hasn't been contributing yet because no new crisis or mess has happened since she contracted (yet). Give it time.
-[x] You absolutely trust her to solve problems. She's impressed Mami. And Kyouko is 110% tsundere.
[x] Also, the money was just stolen from the Yakuza in a few minutes via timestop. The money is for the team, anyway, and teammates invest in each other.
[x] Lastly, fighting Witches alone is always dangerous, even for veterans, and should be avoided if at all possible. Only those with super-OP powers and a heavy dose of caution can safely get away with it.
[x] If appropriate, do the supportive-listener thing: ask if there's anything else bothering her, if we missed the point entirely, etc.
[X] But that's enough of heavy topics. Go enjoy karaoke. Hug teh Mumi. Duet?
~250 words, but Firn said the 150 word limit isn't super-strict, and this is an occasion in which a lot needs to be said in one go.
I took out the stuff that isn't directly relevant to Sayaka or her insecurities now, or stuff which doesn't need to be explicitly pointed out in the vote. Added in some things that weren't in the other votes that I felt were important, like the money thing (which we know Sayaka has a hangup on), why we don't want her fighting Witches alone (she needs to realize that this is super-dangerous, and that we don't even want Mami fighting Witches alone unless she absolutely has to), and what the team actually needs--not a powerful fighter, but a good friend, someone who can be depended upon, and someone who can comfort and support others when Sabrina isn't there to do it herself--and how Sayaka is already making great strides towards being just that.
Look, guys: I don't normally get down and dirty in the voting process like this. I only do it when I think it's really important and that I think significant mistakes are being made.
I'm offering my insight here. I can only hope it will be heeded.
@Torgamous , @AuraTwilight , @StellarMonarch , @Zeroth Jupi , @The Narrator , @Onmur , I'm sorry to ping you guys like this, but I feel that it's important, here.
[x] Put things in perspective. She's comparing herself to several of the best magical girls around. And whatever she thinks, it's only a matter of practice for her to match them.
-[x] Elaborate as appropriate. There are more ways to be a hero than fighting, especially with superpowers. Healing, teleportation, peacekeeping, disaster relief, you name it. She made a damn good Wish for making a difference.
-[x] What Mami needs most isn't a powerful ally, but a good friend. What Homura needs most is someone she can rely upon. Sabrina needs someone who can be there for others when she can't be there herself. Sayaka is already making good strides towards that. She'll be a powerful teammate regardless, and that's always helpful, but now she can be both. She only feels like she hasn't been contributing yet because no new crisis or mess has happened since she contracted (yet). Give it time.
-[x] You absolutely trust her to solve problems. She's impressed Mami. And Kyouko is 110% tsundere.
[x] Also, the money was just stolen from the Yakuza in a few minutes via timestop. The money is for the team, anyway, and teammates invest in each other.
[x] Lastly, fighting Witches alone is always dangerous, even for veterans, and should be avoided if at all possible. Only those with super-OP powers and a heavy dose of caution can safely get away with it.
[x] If appropriate, do the supportive-listener thing: ask if there's anything else bothering her, if we missed the point entirely, etc.
[X] But that's enough of heavy topics. Go enjoy karaoke. Hug teh Mumi. Duet?
~250 words, but Firn said the 150 word limit isn't super-strict, and this is an occasion in which a lot needs to be said in one go.
I took out the stuff that isn't directly relevant to Sayaka or her insecurities now, or stuff which doesn't need to be explicitly pointed out in the vote. Added in some things that weren't in the other votes that I felt were important, like the money thing (which we know Sayaka has a hangup on), why we don't want her fighting Witches alone (she needs to realize that this is super-dangerous, and that we don't even want Mami fighting Witches alone unless she absolutely has to), and what the team actually needs--not a powerful fighter, but a good friend, someone who can be depended upon, and someone who can comfort and support others when Sabrina isn't there to do it herself--and how Sayaka is already making great strides towards being just that.
Look, guys: I don't normally get down and dirty in the voting process like this. I only do it when I think it's really important and that I think significant mistakes are being made.
I'm offering my insight here. I can only hope it will be heeded.
@Torgamous , @AuraTwilight , @StellarMonarch , @Zeroth Jupi , @The Narrator , @Onmur , I'm sorry to ping you guys like this, but I feel that it's important, here.
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Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
[X] SaltyWaffles
x1000
x1000
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Idea for answering Sayaka's question from a violence psychology/martial arts standpoint. It also gives her something to deflect some of the blame on. Worth incorporating into anything?
Meantime though: [x] SaltyWaffles
[]From a combat standpoint, yes and no. Switching is important but large numbers of options beget decision paralysis and conscious thought, and all the best fighting needs unconscious thought. In that sense the Swiss Army Knife versatility your power gives you is a trap. Better to practice 1 kick a thousand times or 3 kicks 333 times or 5 kicks 200 times than a thousand kicks once. If you're ambushed, having one action you can do unconsciously is better than freezing to think about it.
Meantime though: [x] SaltyWaffles
[]From a combat standpoint, yes and no. Switching is important but large numbers of options beget decision paralysis and conscious thought, and all the best fighting needs unconscious thought. In that sense the Swiss Army Knife versatility your power gives you is a trap. Better to practice 1 kick a thousand times or 3 kicks 333 times or 5 kicks 200 times than a thousand kicks once. If you're ambushed, having one action you can do unconsciously is better than freezing to think about it.
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The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
When it comes to trying to convince Sayaka that anything is possible I think the biggest issue is how to properly set up the idea that anything is possible. VeByast's "Anything is possible when you have infinite combinations" is one way... but I'm not sure it would fully hold weight for Sayaka. Admittedly, that's largely because it doesn't resonate with my intuition.
I'd be more willing to go along with the idea if... for instance, we talked about magical girls in history possibly being responsible for the typhoon that decimated the Mongols as they tried to invade Japan.
I'm not sure if it's what makes native sense to Sayaka's mindset but that fundamental argumental structure of "Sure it's possible! It's been done before after all" at least seems more naturally convincing to me.
I'd be more willing to go along with the idea if... for instance, we talked about magical girls in history possibly being responsible for the typhoon that decimated the Mongols as they tried to invade Japan.
I'm not sure if it's what makes native sense to Sayaka's mindset but that fundamental argumental structure of "Sure it's possible! It's been done before after all" at least seems more naturally convincing to me.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] SaltyWaffles
*offers salt made from tears of EvE players to put on the waffles*
*offers salt made from tears of EvE players to put on the waffles*
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Honestly, we should be doing wizard practice with Sayaka, just free-spinning wide-open problem solving. Present a random problem. Completely random, anything from "put out a fire" to "get from point A to point B as fast as possible" to "build a secure line of communication between opposite sides of the planet" to "build a house". Then work through solving that problem with her powerset. Figure out what powers she has that could apply, come up with hypothetical powers that she could go looking for that'd be useful, figure out what clever things she could do past solving the original problem once she has a working solution. The key is that creativity can be practiced by exercising it. And you exercise your creativity by being creative, and you be creative by solving problems and coming up with new ideas.
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Lone Courier 6
Devilish Fool
- Location
- United States of Quests
And if Sayaka doesn't want to be guiena pig?Why not let the fighter be a fighter?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
[x] Warn Sayaka that you're about to go full shonen speech.
[x] She is standing with you. She needs practice, of course, but so does everyone - does she think Mami or Homura were as badass as they are now a week into their careers? You're still figuring out some of the most basic parts of your own power.
-[x] And in the long run? She's quite possibly going to be the most powerful magical girl in history. Nothing anyone on the team - nothing any magical girl period - can do is beyond her. Not even your power, for all she can't copy it directly.
--[x] There are powers that manipulate time, alter space, reweave fate, bring forth the elements, teach skills, heal wounds, shape magic and souls themselves, and yes, control grief. And all of them - literally every possibility - is open to her.
---[x] Her power requires work and dedication to master beyond the norm, yes. Her power is slow to grow in the beginning, it's true. But you have faith in Miki Sayaka, in your friend. to persevere in the face of that, and because of that, she'll surpass all of you.
[x] She is standing with you. She needs practice, of course, but so does everyone - does she think Mami or Homura were as badass as they are now a week into their careers? You're still figuring out some of the most basic parts of your own power.
-[x] And in the long run? She's quite possibly going to be the most powerful magical girl in history. Nothing anyone on the team - nothing any magical girl period - can do is beyond her. Not even your power, for all she can't copy it directly.
--[x] There are powers that manipulate time, alter space, reweave fate, bring forth the elements, teach skills, heal wounds, shape magic and souls themselves, and yes, control grief. And all of them - literally every possibility - is open to her.
---[x] Her power requires work and dedication to master beyond the norm, yes. Her power is slow to grow in the beginning, it's true. But you have faith in Miki Sayaka, in your friend. to persevere in the face of that, and because of that, she'll surpass all of you.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
When we create our Meguca empire she shall be Sabrina's hand, her chief enforcer of laws, minster of justice.
If we don't care about trials we send Homura to murder you : P
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
I'm currently holding proxies for a bunch of people I'm not going to switch my vote, but I will throw my support behind it. I think that it's not a complete conversation, Sayaka still needs the rest of my vote after this, but it's an excellent start.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
So, on one hand, Sayaka probably wouldn't like that we hid it from her. Hiding it for LONGER will make things worse, but...
Sayaka isn't a hypocrite. To a FAULT. If she gets significantly upset over Sabrina keeping this secret she might not be able to keep it herself. Even if she tries, it might slip out on accident. More worringly, we have literally NO FUCKING DATA on how Sayaka happens to the Witchbomb. It literally never happens. The only Sayaka that ever learns the truth of Witches is a fucking ascended angel.
This is a major fucking minefield. I'm more worried about witchbombing Sayaka than fucking Mami. We atleast know what could defuse it in her case.
Always Happening
We could have prevented this.
- Location
- On a train with no brakes
One problem is that while Sayaka's powerset is fucking fantastic and has hypothetically unlimited potential, it takes a long time and a lot of practice to get proficient with, so it's a fucking drag to be surrounded by meguca who are all hyper-competent, have badass powers, and kick the shit out of you (Kyouko doesn't even USE her magic to kick the shit out of her, just her snake spear) when you turned yourself into an undead monster specifically to help them and be useful to them.
Not directly stated, but covered in thread conversation, are the facts that Mitakihara is so bullshit strong that it doesn't need another strong fighter, Sayaka subconsciously realizes this, and that she doesn't know how to use her powers beyond fighting.
This is specifically why I proposed only dropping it under strictly controlled conditions, under the watch of Homura, and with secrecy directly enforced by mind-altering magic. Probably better to have the conference inside the isolation sphere but outside timestop, in fact, so it's open in case of emergency.
First, we need for her to understand the sheer gravitas of the situation, before we even utter a word about Witches. We had to keep it a secret, because it's something that the psyche of most magical girls can't withstand-- Mami would literally kill herself if she knew. This council are those we trust not to crack under pressure and those we believe can undertake the greatest magical workings in the history of mankind.
Then we need her to get angry; this isn't about her, or even anyone specifically; this is about the Incubators exploiting the innocent and damning their souls to a fate where death is a fortunate outcome. This is why we keep telling Madoka not to make a contract, and why we're going to kick Kyuubey the hell off our planet.