@CG

I'm pretty sure Kyouko got most of her body rather gruesomely fucked up in her last Witch fight (where we helped Yuma get to her in time).
 
To be fair, Kyouko hasn't actually learned about the actual strings(Lichbomb and Witchbomb) of her deal with Kyubey yet. She is just naturally suspicious because the whole Meguca lifestyle is not exactly one which rewards being openly trusting of everyone you meet,

She hasn't learned about witchbomb and , but the wish itself did kind of burn her life around her.

Edit: Also, Dirtnap's point. Quest butterflies, etc.
 
We could do the nightly patrol (if we do one) by air. We should get the others used to the whole flying thing while we have free time. Maybe a giant platform with handrails?

Singing 'A whole new world' optional. And hilarious. Homura might put her palm straight through her face.

With apologies to artpanda for desecrating his work.

Can I just say how happy I am that out of all the pictures of Sabrina you could pick, you went for that one?
 
Apprehension pt. 4
You shrug. "Sure," you agree easily. "After you get Madoka and Sayaka home? Mami and I will be fine, I'm sure."

Homura nods in agreement. "Of course," she says.

"Right," you say. "You can join us for dinner, maybe?"

"'Of course'?" Sayaka asks sourly. "Why 'Of course', transfer student?"

"Witches, Miki Sayaka," Homura says tonelessly. "Potentials are attractive."

Is that true, you wonder? You don't really seem to remember anything of the sort...

"Psh," Sayaka snorts. "We've been fine for years, haven't we, Madoka?" She raises a hand to clap the pinkette on the shoulder, but gives up halfway, the weight of the bags dropping to her side again.

"It only takes one Witch," Homura points out.

"Sayaka, Homura just wants to help..." Madoka says.

"I think it's a good idea," Mami adds with a smile.

"Fine," Sayaka mutters. "Fine, fine. Let's go, then. Bye Mami, bye Sabrina."

"See you," you reply, Mami echoing you.

"Bye Mami, bye Sabrina!" Madoka says as the trio turn to walk to the bus stop.

Mami favours you with a smile as they walk away. "Shall we go and have that ice cream, then?"

"Yeah, let's," you agree.

"Did we get everything you needed, Sabrina?," Mami asks, as the two of you thread your way through the crowds thronging the shopping center.

"Hmmm... clothes, phone, a bigger bag... I'll need to transfer my stuff over later... Yeah, that's everything," you say, shifting your bags to avoid a toddler bumping along beside his parents.

"That's good," Mami smiles. "You're sure you don't want anything else? That plush, maybe?"

You chuckle. "Nah, it really was something that just caught my eye, Mami."

"OK, if you're sure," Mami says. "Down a floor," she adds, pointing at the escalator.

"I'm sure," you say firmly. "You've already spent so much on me..." you lift the bags you're holding for emphasis. "Thank you, Mami."

"You're welcome," Mami says easily, smiling at you.

You let the conversation lapse after that, and soon arrive at the ice cream parlour. You find a seat, Mami sliding in opposite to you, with the bags plonked down on the seat.

"What would you like, Mami?" you ask, sliding out of the seat again. "I'll go order?"

"Ah... whatever you're having," Mami says.

You can feel Mami's little glances at you on your back as you join the queue, but you quickly return with two glasses, layered with ice cream and strawberries. "Here we are!" you say cheerfully. "Two strawberry parfaits."

"It looks good!" Mami says.

As you begin to dig in to the ice cream, Mami speaks up, waving her spoon at you. "I think you're right, Sabrina."

"Hmm?" you mumble, mouth full of ice cream.

"Homura, and Madoka," she explains.

"I know!" You grin at her after swallowing your mouthful. "Honestly, I'm not sure she fully acknowledges it herself-" for more than one reason "-but yeah."

Mami hums. "Hmm... We should do something about that, shouldn't we?"

"Gotta be careful, though," you note. "She's, ah, a bit skittish about it." You think back to that incident on the roof.

"Mmm," Mami agrees. "Well, we're not in any rush. Plenty of time."

The conversation lapses into a comfortable silence after that as the two of you polish off the parfaits and head home, taking a bus.

You find Homura waiting patiently outside the apartment door. She looks up at the two of you, and very hesitantly, waves.

"Hello, Homura," Mami says warmly as she shuffles the bags between her hands to free one for the keys. "Were you waiting long?"

"Not too long," Homura replies, following the two of you in, removing her shoes.

Mami drops the shopping bags in a corner, and you follow suit. "We'll sort these out later? Or tomorrow? Homura, please make yourself at home."

"Yeah," you agree. It's about time to start preparing dinner, or you could order in?

[] Order in
[] Cook
[] Talk to Homura
- [] About?
[] Talk to Mami
- [] About?
[] What to do after dinner?


=====​

Busy few days ahead. I might have to slow down my updates a little. We'll see.
 
It's a pity AuraTwilight hasn't posted anything, or Firnagzen on the point I made about how much knowledge Sabrina has of virtue ethics in universe.

Admittedly this is far from certain, but it follows from the established premises regarding Sabrina that Sabrina should have knowledge of virtue ethical theory. With even that much of a primitive philosophical basis, if she believes in the idea of freedom and respecting people's choices it becomes questionable to try and set Madoka and Homura up when Homura clearly doesn't want it and Madoka hasn't even considered the idea.

Requesting clarification again. How much knowledge of philosophy does Sabrina have? Most importantly, does she know things AuraTwilight knows about virtue ethics?
 
I don't see what I could possibly be doing wrong. If Sabrina has this knowledge, which admittedly I don't know for sure, it could be quite relevant in determining our in-character options. In my view, there is a virtue-ethical case (though I'm not certain how much AuraTwilight knows so I'm just postulating) against the way Sabrina is planning to act.
 
@Carinthium
There is a concept called knowing your audience, because funnily enough, humans are very much irrational creatures, no matter how much you might wish that they were rational robots.

And funnily enough, pure logic, or, indeed, 'rationality', is often insufficient to appeal to people.
 
Firnagzen- The audience I was considering here was Sabrina as a character. If she knows virtue ethics, I find it very hard to postulate that she would ignore it. I am well aware of the problems of irrationality, but IF Sabrina has the relevant knowledge the odds she will ignore it are quite slim.

I ask again- assuming AuraTwilight or myself knows something from philosophy, how much does Sabrina automatically know of it?

My intention was to make a logical moral case against this plan, then try to persuade the others because I still have faith that at least some posters will see the logic of my argument. I can then start adressing the emotional rebuttals.

If you think this isn't a rational approach, I should admit that I suck at emotional arguing. Therefore it is rational for me to depend upon rationality, lacking anything else to work with.

Stop your fucking beep boop ethics bitching, stop harassing AuraTwlight, or better yet just fucking go away.

You are awful. Nobody wants you here.

To say that is clearly harrasment on your part. Given the way you discuss ethics I can safely assume you haven't gotten any philosophical training. Given this, how do you know I don't have a point?

Remember my earlier proposals were objected to precisely because it was claimed Sabrina would consider them immoral.
 
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How about this. TAKE IT TO PMs and stop cluttering up the thread with your ethics debate.

Homura literally sold her soul to protect Madoka. If that doesn't tell the depth of her affections for Madoka, I don't know what would.
 
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Carinthium, what is with you and bringing ethics into everything? If you want to discuss philosophy, would you kindly go to one of the debate forums and stop cluttering up the thread about magical girls with fucking virtue ethics. I mean, Jesus Christ, there's a place to be dicussing deontology, a thread about Madoka Magica is not it.

Remember my earlier proposals were objected to precisely because it was claimed Sabrina would consider them immoral.
No, we didn't. We objected to them because you had a fundamental misunderstanding of the relationship between us and Sabrina and assumed that Sabrina is some sort of Hivemind supercomputer in the shape of a human.
 
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Seriously, shut the fuck up, you already got suspended about this exact topic and you even tried to pollute my own fucking thread by bringing up the subject. I'm honestly not sure if you're not just attention-seeking at this point. Stop fucking following me around, name-dropping me, and trying to revive conversations that went incredibly fucking poorly. Please actually demonstrate that you learned something from that huge clusterfuck and drop this topic.

God fucking dammit this is legitimately getting creepy.
 
EDIT: Clarification. I was never following AuraTwilight around. I was posting in the Oriko thread because I found it rather interesting. I'm using AuraTwilight's ideas as an honest attempt to tone down the philosophical content. Virtue ethics is the least philosophical and most intuitive of the philosophical schools.

Cannongerbil- I have the posistion that ethics is relevant to absolutely EVERY moral question. If the question 'Is X morally right or wrong?' comes up, philosophy is automatically relevant. Virtue ethicis isn't even my posistion- it's AuraTwilight's.

AuraTwilight- You're just a convienient virtue ethicist, convienient because you are a regular poster and thus Sabrina must have your knowledge. You yourself argued that Sabrina is closer to being a virtue ethicist. I'm just trying to apply a philosophy you agreed applies to her, using knowledge that she should logically have.

I never claimed to have 'learned anything'. I was never in the wrong to begin with on any point of philosophy. I did change my mind, but never on any of the core points.

DirtNap- The idea that Homura has feelings for Madoka at this point is something I don't dispute. The idea that Homura had feelings for Madoka as of when she made the wish is, I would argue, a lot more controversial. I don't claim I can rule it out because based on the evidence I can't. But I do claim there is a case against I would make it for not for fear of derailment accusations.

But those feelings are irrelevant because if you have the idea of human moral autonomy it follows it's none of our buisness. An approach more consistent with virtue ethics would be to talk to Homura, explain what we know and what we have inferred, and try to persuade her to accept an open offer
 
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[] Cook, get Mami and Homura both involved
[] Talk to Homura and Mami
-[] About normal things, school, the weather, ect.
-[] If souls come up, be there for Mami and make sure she knows that no matter the state of her soul, she is still Mami Tomoe

SO HOW ABOUT A VOTE THEN? ._.

If someone can some up with something better or an afterdinner idea, feel free. This is just a distraction, you saw nothing. *ninjavanish*
 
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@Carinthium
I'll put this bluntly. You are free to address Sabrina's morality. No one is obliged to agree with you or respond to you, and indeed, if nobody votes for you, no action along lines you might desire will be taken. I will point out that there is significant dislike for you and the excessive pompousness and condescension in your posting style, and unless you actually change, people will very likely simply gloss over your points.

This is the last post that I will address to you, because neither am I obliged to respond to you.

Everyone else, if you do not agree with Carinthium, you are free to simply not respond to him.
 
Mods: For what it's worth, if I'm somehow doing something wrong here I don't know how I'm supposed to. If you're planning to punish for me for any of this, could you please tell me? I'm trying to comply with your guidelines to the extent I understand them- it's just that being the sort of person I am, I use complex philosophical reasoning and need to use philosophy to clarify why I believe what I do.

Cannongerbil- To try and push Homura Akemi into a situation she doesn't want against her will is morally iffy because we are violating her freedom.

Firnagzen- Then you aren't doing your job as GM. I need to know in order to make a proposal if Sabrina has knowledge of virtue ethics or not. It is unfair to me to refuse to answer my question.

EVERYONE- As I mentioned earlier, there is a very plausible case that Sabrina is doing something morally wrong even by the virtue ethical standards she should realistically have. AuraTwilight knows virtue ethics, therefore Sabrina knows virtue ethics.
 
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*tactical distraction technique*
[X] Cook
-[X] Maybe something Italian?
[X] Talk to Homura
-[X] COOKING!
-[X] Get Mami involved. You must hatch a plan to make Homura healthier and not noodly and stuff! Maybe something involving coconuts. Coconuts? Coconuts. Coconuts.
[X] Telepathy Mami
-[X] Ask how she's holding up.
[X] Movie night!
[X] Wonder out loud about the FUTURE known as Microwavable tea.


Hey guys! Look! Another vote!

....

Yeah, I'm not good at this..
 
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I'm not even a fucking Virtue Ethicist. I played devil's advocate because you started fucking prescribing people's moral stances by proclaiming nobody could've been without being a moron.

I never claimed to have 'learned anything'. I was never in the wrong to begin with on any point of philosophy. I did change my mind, but never on any of the core points.

So...basically, you do not believe you did anything to warrant your suspension? Honestly? Is anyone else seeing this?

Also get right the fuck out of here insinuating Firn is a dissatisfying GM because he won't entertain your stupid bullshit. Whether Sabrina knows about Virtue Ethics is completely fucking irrelevant. If she thinks "X is wrong" or "X is the right thing to do", she doesn't need to fucking show her work. She's been going on gut instinct and emotional impulse and Paladin-style Gold End Happyboner the whole time fucking anyway.

You're being a complete fucking jackass. For like, the third time this week. Knock it off and try to reflect on your behavior and why people are talking to you like this.

*tactical distraction technique*
[X] Cook
-[X] Maybe something Italian?
[X] Talk to Homura
-[X] COOKING!
-[X] Get Mami involved. You must hatch a plan to make Homura healthier and not noodly and stuff! Maybe something involving coconuts. Coconuts? Coconuts. Coconuts.
[X] Telepathy Mami
-[X] Ask how she's holding up.
[X] Movie night!
[X] Wonder out loud about the FUTURE known as Microwavable tea.


Mods: For what it's worth, if I'm somehow doing something wrong here I don't know how I'm supposed to. If you're planning to punish for me for any of this, could you please tell me? I'm trying to comply with your guidelines to the extent I understand them- it's just that being the sort of person I am, I use complex philosophical reasoning and need to use philosophy to clarify why I believe what I do.

> Claims he uses complex philosophical and ethical reasoning and is so smart rly.

> Claims not to understand why everyone thinks he's such a jerk and acts like he has no idea what the golden rule is like he has a social disorder or something.

Dude. For reals. I'm autistic, so if you have something similar I'm not shitting on you for it or anything, but if you legitimately do not understand how to properly communicate with people in a socially positive manner...maybe you're not qualified to act like a professor of philosophy and ethics, as both of those fields require aptitude in social and psychological skills. They require intimate understanding of the human mind and how it relates to other minds and the world around them, and this requires more than booksmarts and academics.

High INT doesn't compensate for low WIS, brah. Please take a break and think about the past week and try to figure out the pattern. Use that logic of yours you're so proud of.
 
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I'm not even a fucking Virtue Ethicist. I played devil's advocate because you started fucking prescribing people's moral stances by proclaiming nobody could've been without being a moron.



So...basically, you do not believe you did anything to warrant your suspension? Honestly? Is anyone else seeing this?

Also get right the fuck out of here insinuating Firn is a dissatisfying GM because he won't entertain your stupid bullshit. Whether Sabrina knows about Virtue Ethics is completely fucking irrelevant. If she thinks "X is wrong" or "X is the right thing to do", she doesn't need to fucking show her work. She's been going on gut instinct and emotional impulse and Paladin-style Gold End Happyboner the whole time fucking anyway.

You're being a complete fucking jackass. For like, the third time this week. Knock it off and try to reflect on your behavior and why people are talking to you like this.

*tactical distraction technique*
[X] Cook
-[X] Maybe something Italian?
[X] Talk to Homura
-[X] COOKING!
-[X] Get Mami involved. You must hatch a plan to make Homura healthier and not noodly and stuff! Maybe something involving coconuts. Coconuts? Coconuts. Coconuts.
[X] Telepathy Mami
-[X] Ask how she's holding up.
[X] Movie night!
[X] Wonder out loud about the FUTURE known as Microwavable tea.

My apologies for not realising you were playing Devil's Advocate earlier. If you say you're not, you're not.

The fact that Sabrina has been so emotional is something I claim is unrealistic. But even if we suspend disbelief, this is an unusual issue because Homura Akemi's moral right to make her own decisions is at stake. You are knowledgable enough to see how this can easily follow from a virtue ethical approach, are you not?

Let's say, hypothetically speaking (which I don't know, but I'm trying to create an example that is as clear as possible), that Sabrina has read a philosopher who claims that it is morally wrong to try and socially pressures somebody into anything they don't want. This is a simplified example, but IF it were so we would have to for in-character reasons say that if Sabrina has read much philosophy, she would hesitate!

I'm trying to write down a plan for this situation, but it's rather difficult since I keep getting distracted by posters.

In the long run, I should note that it is the job of the GM to clarify all questions on a universe they made. Surely you must accept it is impossible for me to know if Sabrina knows virtue ethics or not unless Firnagzen tells me?
 
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[X] Cook
-[X] Maybe something Italian?
[X] Talk to Homura
-[X] COOKING!
-[X] Get Mami involved. You must hatch a plan to make Homura healthier and not noodly and stuff!
[X] Telepathy Mami
-[X] Ask how she's holding up.
[X] Movie night!
[X] Wonder out loud about the FUTURE known as Microwavable tea.


Yeah, no. I'm done.

You do not get to come into a thread and tell the GM what he has to do. If you did that in my quest I'd have you thread banned. There's a reason some things about the universe I create remain hidden. ITS SO THE PLAYERBASE CAN DISCOVER THEM. Or they don't matter in the long run.
 
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Guys, should we try to bring up the issue of Oriko with Mami? I understand that Mami's emotional state is somewhat fragile right now, but we do kinda have to mend that bridge inside of two weeks, well, eleven days now, and right now she looks to be in a good enough mood that she might at least be amenable to talking about the Oriko issue.
 
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