Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
It could be that Oriko's vision was a lot further in the future, showing a timeline in which we waited way too long to check up on Asunaro and arrived with the shitshow in full swing. For quite a while, the general attitude in the thread was to avoid going there at all costs.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Oh jesus fucking christ, both of these are worryingly brilliant.
Additionally, it's possible Jubey simply gets offended by Sabrina's existence as "better than you in every way at your only purpose for existing" and tries to subvert us on that route alone.
Pride and Jealousy are human emotions.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Needs a comma after "though"
Should be "brushing"
"I'm fine," she says very unconvincingly. No, Mami, you are not.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't think Homura wished to change herself mentally, though. After all, she takes several loops to transition into Murderface.
Kirika is spot-on, though. We should bring her along. Not to mention the fact that her antimagic makes her ideal for breaking others' control over Sabrina, if it comes down to that. We could do regular check-ins with Homura via telepathy, and if Homura notices anything amiss, she can then communicate to Kirika to blast us with antimagic.
For the record, Airi had a wide variety of powers in the Kazumi manga. It's implied her wish-granted magic was being able to magically disguise herself as another person.
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
She's trying to be more resilient, though, which is progress. Being in denial or trying to deceive everyone into thinking that you're fine is not a good thing, but Mami is no longer so broken as to be uncaring about how she is perceived by others in public, if this last update is any indication.
If she still insists that she's fine in private, though, that would be a problem.
BlackoutSampler
So Easily Forgotten
huh, I must have misremembered her wish cause I thought it was "I want to be the one to protect Madoka" instead of "I want to be strong enough to protect Madoka". Although it could conceivably count as mental strength as well, since Moemura has her slow evolution into the Magical Girl Terminator, and manages to last the mental strain of the loops.
Still, yeah, the Idea is that Kiraka cannot be controlled in any way that breaks her ideal of being whatever Oriko needs since that would defy her wish. So she and Oriko can keep each other safe. But the most important part of the team comp is that everyone can counter each other through teamwork, preventing teamwipe through Sabrinahax. Kiraka and Homura working together can subue us easily same with Mami and Homura. Mami can catch Homura with the help of either Kiraka, Us, or even Oriko. And we can stop Mami with standard Greifhax if necessary. And we already established Homura+Mami+Us can beat pretty much everyone, Meaning if O&K get subverted together, we can stomp them again (probably even faster since Oriko doesn't have her visions anymore).
Always Happening
We could have prevented this.
- Location
- On a train with no brakes
Homuhomu.
The Pleiades as a whole can probably go into the day planner under 'known, but not met', by the way; we know they're all the same girls from showing Oriko the figurines (she would have told us if any were different), and personalities aren't subject to timeline flux like wishes/powers are.
Any other notable milestones in PMKM we should ask about? If Airi's ojou hasn't already died, we can still defuse her. I kind want to ask if Oriko knows about the Pleiades' attempts to clone Kazusa, since it muddies the waters all around, but I don't think she does, and I'm not sure of a way to ask about it without implying implications.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Homura might not be willing to leave Mitakihara (and, by extension, Madoka).
If she is willing to go, though, it'd be interesting to see Homura working alongside Kirika. It might help Homura warm up to O&K a bit.
----
Anyway, Oriko seems to be doing a lot better, which is great to see. Homura seems less tense and hostile around O&K, which is also quite nice (she's not friendly, but she's not actively hostile and confrontational, which is a major improvement). And Mami seems to be getting along with O&K better as well.
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Say about the Half-Baked omake Michiru's view is interesting, did Sabrina ever told Mami how her students view her due to the meta view on the whole master and apprentice relationship?
I wonder if its better if we talk to her students, get an understanding of their stories and try to encourage them to talk to Mami.
Anyway enough of that, there's one thing I don't get with the O&K and Homura, is why can't we just give Homura, Sayaka and Mami large number of money so they can take Madoka on a day trip out to the countryside for a walk or stay at a spa inn or shopping at a city in another prefecture.
This way you can put distance and guards around Madoka, away from O&K for a day while we take O & K to Asunaro and we keep an eye on those two or have Oriko babysit Nagisa in order to distract her.
Honesty with how fast Japanese rail is, they can easily go far for a beach episode then come back around evening.
Just ask their parents for permission if they can do a sleepover at a motel while we deal with Asunaro.
It would increase their bonds with each other more and relaxation.
I mean does Madoka and the others have to stay in this city all the time not counting Walpurgis?
I wonder if its better if we talk to her students, get an understanding of their stories and try to encourage them to talk to Mami.
Anyway enough of that, there's one thing I don't get with the O&K and Homura, is why can't we just give Homura, Sayaka and Mami large number of money so they can take Madoka on a day trip out to the countryside for a walk or stay at a spa inn or shopping at a city in another prefecture.
This way you can put distance and guards around Madoka, away from O&K for a day while we take O & K to Asunaro and we keep an eye on those two or have Oriko babysit Nagisa in order to distract her.
Honesty with how fast Japanese rail is, they can easily go far for a beach episode then come back around evening.
Just ask their parents for permission if they can do a sleepover at a motel while we deal with Asunaro.
It would increase their bonds with each other more and relaxation.
I mean does Madoka and the others have to stay in this city all the time not counting Walpurgis?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Hey guys, @Redshirt Army has compiled a very nice summary and day planner of PMAS. It even has a potential Science list and character listings. Take a look here, and throw him likes for the hard work.
Yes, yes, shower me in accolades.
The edit link is available upon request, and @Vebyast and @Julian Bradshaw deserve recognition for the Science Planner and Event Summaries respectively.
I'll add the rest of the Pliades Saints to the cast list, as requested (with a healthy healing of question marks to signify uncertainty.)
They do, unless they want to explain to their parents why they're cutting class.
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Per wiki, her Wish was "I want to redo my first encounter with Kaname-san. But this time, instead of her protecting me, I want to become strong enough to protect her!" And whatever strength her Wish gave her, it obviously wasn't physical strength, so mental fortitude does seem very possible.
Heh, Homura and Kirika are getting more and more similar by the day. Too bad she won't appreciate the comparison.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
There's also the strength/power that being able to stop time implies too, y'know. That said, I expect Homu to be quite difficult to brainwash, and nearly impossible if it would go against Madoka.
So all we need is for Madoka to tell Homura to keep us safe and tolerate Kirika, and we'll be fine.
You jest, but that might actually work. Not sure how to get her to do this without giving away a bunch of secrets Homura doesn't want revealed, though. Maybe we can bribe her with the fact that knowing Homura's story will prompt Madoka to hug her more?
Do note that the "only cleaning the surface" bit only popped up near the end. And they had relied on Jyuubey's cleansing for quite a while before that. It seems unlikely to me that the Pleiades Saints had been accumulating grief that whole time, otherwise I would have expected them to have had extreme depression and to have witched out long before. But do note that Jyuubey had been consuming grief seeds. Perhaps he was able to actually cleanse in proportion to the number of grief seeds he had consumed, and it just happens that his capacity ran out towards the end. While it is possible that Sabrina would threaten Jyuubey's purpose (i.e. by providing an alternate source of cleansing), it's also possible that Sabrina could be an ally to Jyuubey by affirming his purpose (i.e. by clearing the grief seeds he had consumed and thereby increasing his capacity to cleanse).
Also, I wonder what the evil nuts (i.e. the "fake" grief seeds) would look like to Sabrina's grief senses?
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
PMKM bad writting happened.
Whereas in PMMM, Grief accumulation can last, say, a week during which the meguca becomes more and more depressed to finally turn into a Witch, in PMKM everyone acts completely normal until they suddenly snap, do bad shit, and Witch out.
There's no lead up whatsoever.
If I wanted to try and excuse it, I'd have to argue that maybe all the meguca were so thoroughly magically fooled into believing their Gems were clean that this somehow counteracted the effects of Grief buildup.
(Until an appropriately DRAMATIC amount of time before the Witch out.)
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Okay, folks: I've had an epiphany. Could be nothing, but I think there's something to it.
You see, I've figured out where Sayaka's whole "power copier" deal comes form.
...We see her with it in canon.
In Rebellion, the mermaid witch she has the ability to command other witches' familiars. (part of their power sets in other words) More than that, however, she also copies Kyoko's spear.
Why this is, is that Sayaka and Nagisa come holding on to a piece of Madoka's sealed power. And interestingly either one is enough for restoration, implying that the power is not diminished via splitting, as one might expect for copies.
On it's own, that's one thing and an interesting coincidence. However, Sayaka has also repeatedly shown a degree of sympathy for witches, just as she shows in her confrontation with Homura in Rebellion. We see it a little after the Gertrude fight as she shows sympathy for someone who "had their home barged into" and we see it again at some point around her first fight against a witch: the spider among the hanging ropes.
Sayaka's Airstep also shows some interesting traits: She shows it during the series, but what's interesting is the one time we look at it closely, during the aforementioned first fight against the spider witch, we see five imagines: knight, crossed swords, windmill, mermaid, and angel. All of these relate pretty directly to Sayaka and Oktavia. Of those, the angel has strong associations of Sayaka of Rebellion, but as far as I can tell not so strong associations otherwise. It's a very small thing that's not admissible on it's own, but in combination with the above it's more suspicious.
All in all, it's not remotely conclusive, but it points to a link between PMAS and Rebellion. And I think there's enough of one enough to warrant further investigation.
-----------
And speaking of Sayaka... we should probably speak to her soon. As of Saturday night Sayaka is now the only person who doesn't know our 'metabomb" secret. Between that, the way she feels about keeping secrets from her friends, and how she just got into a massive argument from us keeping a secret from her last night, I suspect that if don't get a move on with the metabomb, she won't take it well.
Luckily we're still at the point where we can apologize for being a massive idiot and having it slip our mind.
Honestly, I'm probably going to move to telepathy her ASAP that we need to discuss it so we don't forget.
We know that grief is corrosive, both mentally and physically --- our science experiments on grief show gaseous grief ruining the structural integrity of steel --- and near the end of PMKM Jyuubey literally falls apart during an attempted soul gem purification.
It's possible that in rebuilding the Kyuubey corpse into Jyuubey or via making him emotional the Pleiades Saints either ruined his ability to withstand grief or the untested purification method they used left him vulnerable to damage. (Have I mentioned horrifically lax safety in experimental procedures yet?)
Grief is basically curses, negative emotion and suffering. With an untested handling method it would make sense that mental contamination could easily occur. And that could lead to paranoia, aggression, and a host of other negative emotions: Heighten those enough via sufficient contamination and you might cause an incubator to find ways to attack us with little to no reason, especially if it has no context for how to deal with its emotionality.
One that comes to mind is looking for news of Asunaro bomb threats online. The start of the manga, and thus confirmation of Kazumi's existence, starts with a bomb threat at the mall after all and if it happens like that here it may be newsworthy even if it came to nothing. The event could be eaten by Firn's revisions, but it could still be a good way to check if whatever revamped version of PMKM Firn is going with has hit start of canon yet.
You see, I've figured out where Sayaka's whole "power copier" deal comes form.
...We see her with it in canon.
In Rebellion, the mermaid witch she has the ability to command other witches' familiars. (part of their power sets in other words) More than that, however, she also copies Kyoko's spear.
Why this is, is that Sayaka and Nagisa come holding on to a piece of Madoka's sealed power. And interestingly either one is enough for restoration, implying that the power is not diminished via splitting, as one might expect for copies.
On it's own, that's one thing and an interesting coincidence. However, Sayaka has also repeatedly shown a degree of sympathy for witches, just as she shows in her confrontation with Homura in Rebellion. We see it a little after the Gertrude fight as she shows sympathy for someone who "had their home barged into" and we see it again at some point around her first fight against a witch: the spider among the hanging ropes.
Sayaka's Airstep also shows some interesting traits: She shows it during the series, but what's interesting is the one time we look at it closely, during the aforementioned first fight against the spider witch, we see five imagines: knight, crossed swords, windmill, mermaid, and angel. All of these relate pretty directly to Sayaka and Oktavia. Of those, the angel has strong associations of Sayaka of Rebellion, but as far as I can tell not so strong associations otherwise. It's a very small thing that's not admissible on it's own, but in combination with the above it's more suspicious.
All in all, it's not remotely conclusive, but it points to a link between PMAS and Rebellion. And I think there's enough of one enough to warrant further investigation.
-----------
And speaking of Sayaka... we should probably speak to her soon. As of Saturday night Sayaka is now the only person who doesn't know our 'metabomb" secret. Between that, the way she feels about keeping secrets from her friends, and how she just got into a massive argument from us keeping a secret from her last night, I suspect that if don't get a move on with the metabomb, she won't take it well.
Luckily we're still at the point where we can apologize for being a massive idiot and having it slip our mind.
Honestly, I'm probably going to move to telepathy her ASAP that we need to discuss it so we don't forget.
One thing to consider about why Jyuubey is the possibility of him being contaminated by grief:
We know that grief is corrosive, both mentally and physically --- our science experiments on grief show gaseous grief ruining the structural integrity of steel --- and near the end of PMKM Jyuubey literally falls apart during an attempted soul gem purification.
It's possible that in rebuilding the Kyuubey corpse into Jyuubey or via making him emotional the Pleiades Saints either ruined his ability to withstand grief or the untested purification method they used left him vulnerable to damage. (Have I mentioned horrifically lax safety in experimental procedures yet?)
Grief is basically curses, negative emotion and suffering. With an untested handling method it would make sense that mental contamination could easily occur. And that could lead to paranoia, aggression, and a host of other negative emotions: Heighten those enough via sufficient contamination and you might cause an incubator to find ways to attack us with little to no reason, especially if it has no context for how to deal with its emotionality.
One that comes to mind is looking for news of Asunaro bomb threats online. The start of the manga, and thus confirmation of Kazumi's existence, starts with a bomb threat at the mall after all and if it happens like that here it may be newsworthy even if it came to nothing. The event could be eaten by Firn's revisions, but it could still be a good way to check if whatever revamped version of PMKM Firn is going with has hit start of canon yet.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Geez, don't steal all the adjectives, Oriko.
Bah, is Oriko doing fine today or what?
Also,
Love the contrast.
Making that construct too literally forever.
I know it's not the first time, but it's nice seeing Homura not needing intermediaries to include Sabrina in timestop.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
So far, I don't think we've heard anything that would change our immediate plans: ask Mami to contact Kazusa and find out what the situation is like over there. If she's still alive and we can contact her, then our plans for the trip to Asunaro are going to depend on what we she tells us.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
There was a small period of time during which Mami and Kirika were alone inside the Grief bubble.
What happened then.
What secrets did Best Buddy secretly whispered to Sabrina's Ojou?
Or what sort of awkwardness ensued?
Or maybe both girls looked at each other for a moment, then ignored each other in favour of staring at their respective girls outside the bubble.
Who knows?
- Tell her about Grief powers
- Arrange a meeting time
- Discuss who's going to Asunaro with the others
... You know who would be nice to have along for the trip?
Kyouko.
Doesn't Kyouko have some sort of resistance to mind attacks of some sort, thanks to her Wish?
If she could leave Yuma with someone, it'd be nice to have her along.
What happened then.
What secrets did Best Buddy secretly whispered to Sabrina's Ojou?
Or what sort of awkwardness ensued?
Or maybe both girls looked at each other for a moment, then ignored each other in favour of staring at their respective girls outside the bubble.
Who knows?
- Contact Kazusa
- Tell her about Grief powers
- Arrange a meeting time
- Discuss who's going to Asunaro with the others
... You know who would be nice to have along for the trip?
Kyouko.
Doesn't Kyouko have some sort of resistance to mind attacks of some sort, thanks to her Wish?
If she could leave Yuma with someone, it'd be nice to have her along.
Script Mak3r
(Verified Sun God) (Verified Feathers)
- Location
- Hell of Blazing Fires
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Nagisa could reveal to Yuma the wonders of CHEESE.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
...not that I recall? I don't remember her tangling with any mindguca in Different Story or Oriko Magica. Maybe in some other spin-off?
Not sure how interested Kyouko would be in going to another city to fight somebody else's battle. And I suspect that Yuma would react badly if she thought her big sis was leaving her....
I actually had a thought at one point that, since Kyouko seems disinclined to fight Walpurgisnacht, we could put her and Yuma on Madoka-sitting duty well away from the front lines during that fight to make sure that Kyubey didn't try to pull any shit.