Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

[Onmur]

Yea, this is why I want to bring Jubey a Clear Seed.

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The problem with giving Jyuubey a Clear Seed is that, due to him most likely carryng Grief Seeds (or getting them later from the Pleiades if we don't put a stop to that), the Clear Seed won't actually do anything, because Grief Seeds steal Grief from Seeds that have been Cleaned out.

So: Jyuubey absorbs Grief into Clear Seed. Grief Seeds absorb Grief from Clear Seed. Grief Seeds Witch out.

Maybe we can ask the Pleiades to keep the Grief Seeds in the freezer for future de-Witching, but we're still left with the problem of telling Jyuubey he sucks at his main job.

 

[Higure]

Clearly, we just need to upgrade Juubey.

Maybe get the Pantsless Ones to assist...Science apparently succeeds more often/more quickly when served with a side of Social.

 

[Karnewarrior]

Why not just take the dirty seeds from Juubey and feed him a clear seed? He can return to us once it starts getting full.

 

[The Narrator]

Also, according to PMAS she already makes day trips out of Mitakihara to steal weapons from the JSDF, so whatever.

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I assumed that she used timestop to keep those trips fairly short in "real" time. And that she hasn't made that trip yet in this timeline, but is using weapons leftover from previous ones.

If Homura does come with us, then that solves some problems but creates a new one: we'd need to convince someone else to take over the Madowatch. It's too risky to leave her unprotected; her making a contract is checkmate.

 

[Onmur]

Clearly, we just need to upgrade Juubey.

Maybe get the Pantsless Ones to assist...Science apparently succeeds more often/more quickly when served with a side of Social.

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Why not just take the dirty seeds from Juubey and feed him a clear seed? He can return to us once it starts getting full.

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The problem is Oriko's statement that Jyuubey becomes our enemy.

If, as has been theorized, Jyuubey will become our enemy due to feelings of inadequacy, then it will be very, very difficult to not alienate him. Jyuubey canonically has got a purpose for existing; we're going there to tell him he was so useless at it that most of his protectees/friends will die, and show him we can do better than him at the same time.

In this case, there's no easy way to 'fix' Jyuubey.

I mean, we could fangirl all over him first thing and ask Niko if she could make, like, a million more?

A good first impression should help.

 

[TheEyes]

I assumed that she used timestop to keep those trips fairly short in "real" time. And that she hasn't made that trip yet in this timeline, but is using weapons leftover from previous ones.

If Homura does come with us, then that solves some problems but creates a new one: we'd need to convince someone else to take over the Madowatch. It's too risky to leave her unprotected; her making a contract is checkmate.

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Mami and Sayaka will be able to do this just fine for a day.

The problem is Oriko's statement that Jyuubey becomes our enemy.

If, as has been theorized, Jyuubey will become our enemy due to feelings of inadequacy, then it will be very, very difficult to not alienate him. Jyuubey canonically has got a purpose for existing; we're going there to tell him he was so useless at it that most of his protectees/friends will die, and show him we can do better than him at the same time.

In this case, there's no easy way to 'fix' Jyuubey.

I mean, we could fangirl all over him first thing and ask Niko if she could make, like, a million more?

A good first impression should help.

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We just need to Social him really well... with Suicidal Fatalist, Super-Yandere, and Murderface as backup...

Crap, we're doomed, aren't we?

 

[Phigment]

That or the person trying to mind control us will create a fake account and get a vote.

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That would be wrong, and no one should do it.

More important, did they get the pony???

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No pony was forthcoming. Hypothetically.


Isn't the Asunaro effect an ongoing magical mind-whammy that prevents anyone from remembering the existence of Kyubey as soon as they come in to range, and makes them remember Juubey instead where needed? But Kyubey is actually still hanging around, undetectable, spying on everyone?

Meaning, isn't going there, or taking anyone else there, ridiculously dangerous? Does leaving the zone de-whammy someone, or are they still subject to it? Will we know to maintain information security vs. Kyubey when we don't even remember that Kyubey exists, or will somebody do something crazy? Crazier than setting up a semi-permanent magical effect to alter your own brain, which the Pleiades have already demonstrated a willingness to do, multiple times?

The Oriko advice "don't go there" sounds like a really, really good idea, honestly. Those people are (potentially) living in Crazytown, because they intentionally used magic to make everyone crazier.

 

[Onmur]

That would be wrong, and no one should do it.



No pony was forthcoming. Hypothetically.


Isn't the Asunaro effect an ongoing magical mind-whammy that prevents anyone from remembering the existence of Kyubey as soon as they come in to range, and makes them remember Juubey instead where needed? But Kyubey is actually still hanging around, undetectable, spying on everyone?

Meaning, isn't going there, or taking anyone else there, ridiculously dangerous? Does leaving the zone de-whammy someone, or are they still subject to it? Will we know to maintain information security vs. Kyubey when we don't even remember that Kyubey exists, or will somebody do something crazy? Crazier than setting up a semi-permanent magical effect to alter your own brain, which the Pleiades have already demonstrated a willingness to do, multiple times?

The Oriko advice "don't go there" sounds like a really, really good idea, honestly. Those people are (potentially) living in Crazytown, because they intentionally used magic to make everyone crazier.

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Hopefully, we can remain unnafected by that.

Actually more hopefully, the Barrier isn't up.

And... if it is, hopefully we can see it from outside, and know it's there before going in?

We can sense magic.

 

[Torgamous]

Will we know to maintain information security vs. Kyubey when we don't even remember that Kyubey exists,

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Unless Firnagzen can erase the players' memories, I don't see how this is doable.

 

[Onmur]

Unless Firnagzen can erase the players' memories, I don't see how this is doable.

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Can't he?

 

[Torgamous]

Can't he?

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I don't remember him ever doing it before.

 

[Redshirt Army]

I assumed that she used timestop to keep those trips fairly short in "real" time.

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She commutes there using mundane transport, because the JSDF base she loots is too far for even a meguca running pace.

Unless Firnagzen can erase the players' memories, I don't see how this is doable.

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Easy. We don't have full write-in vote input on Sabrina's actions until Sabrina regains her memories.

In any case, this is exactly the sort of reason why bringing Kirika and her antimagic with us is a good idea.

 

[JarringToaster]

Unless Firnagzen can erase the players' memories, I don't see how this is doable.

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It's simple. Anything that mentions Kyubey by the players is intentionally filtered to replace him with Jyubey when it goes through the thought processes of Sabrina.

 

[Phigment]

Also, if we ever create an autonomous grief-collecting familiar to replace Kyubey, it should be shaped like a dog.

And named Scubey.

 

[Always Happening]

WOOOAAH NELLY

and Jyuubey, should it come into existence.

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We're getting way ahead of ourselves. Jyuubey doesn't exist yet. Ideally, I'd like to be there to assist in its creation, so we can build it right and circumvent the flaws of the original.

Please read more carefully so you don't set off a frenzy, @AuraTwilight

 

[Kaizuki]

Alright what the fuck. Jubey existing before Michiru witches out is WEIRD, and him being our enemy without the rest of the Pleiades being noted as such is WEIRDER.

We're in for some shit.

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Uh...

"Jyuubey is a fake Incubator the Pleaides create as an attempt to replace Kyuubey," Oriko says, frowning.

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You sure you didn't misread the text Aura? Sure seems to me that he doesn't exist yet.

As for Asunaro... it seems to me (as it always has) that the potential benefits simply outweigh the risks. There is too much to be gained to not go -- we protect Mami's friend and we potentially gain all sorts of "loot" in the process. And on top of that, it makes a great booster for the social link with Homura, on the (probably highly accurate and beneficial!) premise that Kazusa's team will probably assist with Walpurgisnacht -- certainly if Kazusa is even half the guca Mami is, she at least will assist after we guarantee the supply of her team with cleansing. Because for all we've done we haven't made any solid recruitments for WPN, and this will change that.

Regarding Kanna Hijiri's powers. I do think we can prevent her from "connecting" to us via a derivative of this same privacy field -- based on last night's events it appears to block telepathy at the least, and based on that and its apparent "isolating" nature I think we can expect it to work in that capacity.

... Theoretically speaking, we might be able to test that by asking Mami to use ribbons to bind two things together with one in the field and one outside of it. That should take essentially nil time, so it might be worth doing. It would also, potentially, speak to the degree of interaction between our magic and Mami's.

In Mami's case, her wish "to connect to life" [editor's note: she wanted to live] gave her the power to "tie" and "combine" things together. That's why her power comes from the ribbon. By using the ribbon as a weapon, she can use that to produce guns that are useful in a battle. In ep3, Homura is stopped in her tracks by being tied up. That is her true magical power. She has the most experience so has a lot of different magical powers beyond those of her original powers.

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Mmmmm... other things...

It is revealed that, as the Pleiades were creating the Freezer and planning to revive Michiru, Niko created an artificial incubator with her magic using a body of Kyubey that was killed by Umika. Having studied the mechanics of grief seeds, she incorporated their purification capabilities into the incubator corpse, as well as making it obey the Pleiades. She dubbed it a "Dependent-Version Incubator", and nicknamed it "Juubey". Umika then cast a wide-scale spell over all of Asunaro City as part of their plan, making it impossible for anyone within the city to perceive Kyubey at all, as well as editing their existing memories to remove Kyubey and replace him with Juubey instead, and suppressing their memories of how to purify soul gems without Juubey.

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My theory on why Juubey would be an antagonist. Certainly seems like that would put us at odds.

 

[Always Happening]

My theory on why Juubey would be an antagonist. Certainly seems like that would put us at odds.

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It's worth noting the the Pleiades themselves retain the knowledge of how to use Grief Seeds for cleansing, but consciously elect not to because they consider it immoral (being that they were/are the souls of other magical girls and they have a 'better' solution). I'd imagine that soul gem cleansing is so integral to our powerset that the barrier's suppression wouldn't effect us in this way, or, if it did, we'd remember it prety much immediately upon using griefbending for anything else.

 

[Redshirt Army]

I'd imagine that soul gem cleansing is so integral to our powerset that the barrier's suppression wouldn't effect us in this way, or, if it did, we'd remember it prety much immediately upon using griefbending for anything else.

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If the barrier is up, we'll sense it between ourselves and Kirika. If our specialty mind protection grief constructs don't do the trick, Kirika's antimagic should.

 

[Recurrence]

If Homura's not okay with letting both O&K of the house at the same time, one way to get around some of Homura's anxieties over leaving town might be to have Mami watch Oriko and Sayaka stay with Madoka, at two different locations. Hell, we can even have Sayaka take Madoka along to her next training session with Kyoko and Yuma. Mami might also ease some of Kirika's anxieties about leaving Oriko and iirc Mami and Oriko get on okay. This has the side benefit of giving Mami something reasonably important to do for us while she can't be with us.

 

[Karnewarrior]

It does seem a bit rude to be cutting out Mami while we go to see her student.

I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's rude.

 

[boonerunner]

Actually this is kind of important because it shows us there is value in practicing some of our more critical griefhax constructs. Our enchanting meta-enhancer took fifteen minutes of concentration to form, and our privacy construct, which we've used more often, only seven. If we ever find good uses for pure griefhax over enchantments or speckled enchantments it ought to be a good idea to practice making them first, to lower the time needed to make one.

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Or we could just refrain from dissolving the grief constructs after we're done with them. We're already carrying a bunch of other stuff in our grief cloud.

We're getting way ahead of ourselves. Jyuubey doesn't exist yet. Ideally, I'd like to be there to assist in its creation, so we can build it right and circumvent the flaws of the original.

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Oriko's precog is on the fritz right now. And Asunaro may have a mind altering effect which would have affected Oriko's original precog visions. So we don't know whether or not Jyuubey already exists. But I agree that Sabrina may be able to circumvent his flaws in either case.

Jubey's natural personality is sufficient to explain the situation. In canon, he's obsessively clingy of the Pleiades, is willing to lie to Kazumi to fulfill his objectives, is capable of maliciously enjoying triumph, and is 100% okay with screwing over other Magical Girls for the sake of the Pleiades. He is capable of pride and jealousy because he has the full range of human emotions, and Sabrina's entire existence would be a crisis for him.

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Note that he's also quite capable of lying.

The problem with giving Jyuubey a Clear Seed is that, due to him most likely carryng Grief Seeds (or getting them later from the Pleiades if we don't put a stop to that), the Clear Seed won't actually do anything, because Grief Seeds steal Grief from Seeds that have been Cleaned out.

So: Jyuubey absorbs Grief into Clear Seed. Grief Seeds absorb Grief from Clear Seed. Grief Seeds Witch out.

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Yeah, giving Jyuubey a clear seed might be a bad idea. But it depends on how he stores those grief seeds he eats. If he can store the seeds he eats so that they don't touch one another, then he can store grief seeds as well as clear seeds. Or maybe Sabrina can clear/refresh all of the grief seeds that he previously ate. Maybe he'll need to be redesigned (SCIENCE!) in order to be able to perform effective cleansing. But there is probably some way to let him continue to fulfill his purpose as a grief cleanser. The best case scenario would be if he were to be capable of expanding that role outside of Asunaro.

As long as Sabrina treats Jyuubey as a person in his own right and acknowledges the validity of his emotions and desires, there should be some path forward which will make him an ally rather than an enemy.

 

[Phigment]

If Homura's not okay with letting both O&K of the house at the same time, one way to get around some of Homura's anxieties over leaving town might be to have Mami watch Oriko and Sayaka stay with Madoka, at two different locations. Hell, we can even have Sayaka take Madoka along to her next training session with Kyoko and Yuma. Mami might also ease some of Kirika's anxieties about leaving Oriko and iirc Mami and Oriko get on okay. This has the side benefit of giving Mami something reasonably important to do for us while she can't be with us.

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OR...

We leave Oriko, Kirika, and Homura at home. We take Madoka and Mami with us.

Then, we have the Asonaro people enspell Madoka so that she's unable to perceive or remember Kyubey at all.

Pow! Problem solved permanently. No contracting for Madoka.

 

[universalperson]

What strikes me is that if Airi is already active as an antagonist then that means the real Airi already witched out

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Yuuri.

 

[CornyBones]

"Kanna Hijiri is a... mentally unstable girl," Oriko says. "I... I think she was created by a Wish? She is violent and resentful, and ruthlessly against the Pleaides Saints. She's able to flawlessly connect and synthesize other magical girl's abilities, and manipulates Airi into doing her bidding."

​

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​

Birds of a feather flock together, and we are an exceptional bird.

 

[Onmur]

I feel we should throw the idea of taking O and K on the trip, before calling Kazusa.

This way, Homu can mull it over while we talk with Kazusa, and hopefully accepts the idea of taking Homura, O and K on the trip as the less terrible option.

It'll make it an easier sell.

-[Q] "And we can also leave Oriko and Kirika in nopantsland when we come back?"