But yeah. We want to be there for their first meeting since the breakup. It's a good opportunity to get Mumi to shed happy tears, and of course ORPHAN TEARS ARE OF USE IN THE DARKEST ALCHEMIES.
There is something I've been wanting Sabrina to say to Mami when the opportunity arose, to help prepare her for the possibility of us having to go places and do things without her:
"I'd never want to leave, Mami. I'm happiest when I'm with you. I'd spend every moment by your side if I could. No matter where my travels take me, when I come home, I want to come home to you."
There is something I've been wanting Sabrina to say to Mami when the opportunity arose, to help prepare her for the possibility of us having to go places and do things without her:
"I'd never want to leave, Mami. I'm happiest when I'm with you. I'd spend every moment by your side if I could. No matter where my travels take me, when I come home, I want to come home to you."
IMO, if we're gonna have a date in Italy, better make it an actual holiday vacation, and not an off-the-cuff two-hour spontaneous thing.
Because even if we achieve trans-continental supersonic flight/teleportation, Jet Lag is still a thing. It's hard to enjoy a 5-star italian dinner when your brain is convinced it's 4 AM and you're relying on magic to keep yourself awake.
[X] Talk to Mami about Kyouko: About how Kyouko's doing, and how you want them to be friends again.
-[X] Hug Mami closer.
-[X] Ask Mami if she's OK with Kyouko entering Mitakihara to train Sayaka.
That said, I'm fine with refining it a bit. I won't shorten the span of my vote, though - if it's too long, Firn can cut it off at any point, and having a pre-commited plan is useful.
[x] Visit Kuroki's last known location in person.
-[x] Look for clues. SCIENCE as appropriate. Break to voting if you find something.
[X] Talk to Mami about Kyouko: About how Kyouko's doing, your belief they can reconcile, and how you want them to be friends again.
-[X] Hug Mami closer. Don't let Mami think Kyouko would be replacing you. Mami makes your days brighter.
-[X] Discuss Sayaka's training with Mami, including the logistics.
[x] Go with Mami to buy the things Kirika wanted and visit the Mikunis.
-[x] Privacy field. While there, broach the subject of Asunaro. Give Oriko an out in case of Witchbomb.
--[x] Only commit to visiting tommorow if it's urgent.
[x] Head home
-[x] Chill a bit, then let Mami know Homu wanted to chat a bit: you'll be right back.
--[x] Break for voting.
[] Privacy
-[] Hey Mami? It's possible for you and Kyouko to reconcile.
-[] Give details. Separation = Kyouko pushing Mami away out of self-loathing.Yuma making Kyouko better.
--[] If Mami starts blaming herself for not seeing that: call bullshit. Kyouko needed time, there was absolutely nothing Mami could have done to change that. Furthermore you highly doubt Kyouko would've survived the loss of her family without Mami.
I don't believe that we should share those details to Mami without Kyouko's consent, for the same reason we've been circumspect about Homura's secrets. We know them, but they're not ours to tell. At most, we can share that our metaknowledge his info that leads us to think reconciliation is possible, but not the actual information itself.
I don't believe that we should share those details to Mami without Kyouko's consent, for the same reason we've been circumspect about Homura's secrets. We know them, but they're not ours to tell. At most, we can share that our metaknowledge his info that leads us to think reconciliation is possible, but not the actual information itself.
We've been circumspect about Homura's secrets because they're not ours to tell and because they aren't particularly hurting anyone but Homura. Mami's damned guilt complex, on the other hand, has been trying for months or years to convince her that it's her own fault Kyouko left. There's little we can do to allay that in any way but sharing this information.
It's certainly a privacy violation. I'm willing to leave it out for now, but Mami needs to be told about this eventually, and somehow I don't think Kyouko will ever agree to it.
We may also want to privacy this conversation -- it's probably best if us telling Mami we think she and Kyouko can reconcile doesn't get back to Kyouko via QB.
It's certainly a privacy violation. I'm willing to leave it out for now, but Mami needs to be told about this eventually, and somehow I don't think Kyouko will ever agree to it.
If we can't ever convince Kyouko to authorize saying it, then it won't ever be right to say it. (There are situations were it would be the lesser wrong, by far, of course, but it still won't be right.)
I think that this isn't so urgent that we can't try working towards it from Kyouko's end, since getting her to share her feelings and admit she never hated Mami will be key parts of the reconciliation anyway. This comes across as you not actually believing in the re-connection you're assuring Mami is possible.
... I'm 100% sure that Firn wont fuck us over on minutiae when the conversational details are this compressed. I'll switch it anyway, though, just to humor you.
[x] Visit Kuroki's last known location in person.
-[x] Look for clues. SCIENCE as appropriate. Break to voting if you find something.
[X] Talk to Mami about Kyouko: About your belief they can reconcile, how Kyouko's doing, and how you want them to be friends again.
-[X] Hug Mami closer. Don't let Mami think Kyouko would be replacing you. Mami makes your days brighter.
-[X] Discuss Sayaka's training with Mami, including the logistics.
[x] Go with Mami to buy the things Kirika wanted and visit the Mikunis.
-[x] Privacy field. While there, broach the subject of Asunaro. Give Oriko an out in case of Witchbomb.
--[x] Only commit to visiting tommorow if it's urgent.
[x] Head home
-[x] Chill a bit, then let Mami know Homu wanted to chat a bit: you'll be right back.
--[x] Break for voting.
Who are you guys talking about in regards to 'you'? Because the way it's phrased right now makes it seem like you are trying assure her that you aren't trying to replace yourself with Kyouko and not the notion of trying to replace Mami with Kyouko which should be 'her' in this case.
Edit: Please don't rate this comment, it was a huge misunderstanding on my part and I don't want to be reminded about it.
[x] Visit Kuroki's last known location in person.
-[x] Look for clues. SCIENCE as appropriate. Break to voting if you find something.
[X] Talk to Mami about Kyouko.
-[X] Discuss Sayaka's training with Mami, the logistics in particular.
[x] Go buy the things Kirika wanted and visit the Mikunis.
-[x] Privacy field. While there, broach the subject of Asunaro. Let Mami contribute. Give Oriko an out in case of Witchbomb.
--[x] Only commit to visiting tomorrow if it's urgent.
[x] Head home
-[x] Chill a bit, then let Mami know Homu wanted to chat a bit: you'll be right back.
--[x] Break for voting.
Who are you guys talking about in regards to 'you'? Because the way it's phrased right now makes it seem like you are trying assure her that you aren't trying to replace yourself with Kyouko and not the notion of trying to replace Mami with Kyouko which should be 'her' in this case.
That is exactly what we're trying to say. Mami is going to think that us trying to get her her former best friend back means we want to give her a substitute-us and leave her.
Strongly disagree. We don't know how much time Michiru and the other Saints have left before they start witching out. Continuing to ignore Asunaro would be negligent. We've already put it off for far too long.
This is not a CRPG. Sidequests won't wait in stasis until we feel like getting around to dealing with them.
Oriko's lost her visions, so she won't really have any new information for us on that score. Why not have Mami contact Michiru, since they knew each other, ask how things are doing, and tell them that we'd like to come visit tomorrow?
Who are you guys talking about in regards to 'you'? Because the way it's phrased right now makes it seem like you are trying assure her that you aren't trying to replace yourself with Kyouko...
That is what they mean. They're concerned that Mami might think that we're trying to get her closer to Kyouko so Kyouko can replace Sabrina as Mami's emotional support.
I personally don't think that it's a conclusion that she's likely to draw in the first place, but having Sabrina reinforce her desire to be with Mami is always a good thing.
[x] STANDING VOTE: Give all actions and conversations the attention they deserve. Break to voting as appropriate.
[x] Visit Kuroki's last known location in person.
-[x] Look for clues. SCIENCE as appropriate.
[X] Discuss Sayaka's training with Kyouko with Mami, and if she's okay with it.
-[x] Touch on Kyouko entering Mitakihara in particular.
[x] Go buy the things Kirika wanted, then visit the Mikunis.
-[x] Ask about Asunaro. Include Mami in the discussion if you can.
--[x] If appropriate, have Mami message Michiru about us arriving sometime soon.
[x] Before heading home, let Mami know Homu wanted to talk. Ping Homura.
Changelog:
Each section had a "break to vote if needed" subsection. Removed redundancy and made a standing vote.
Slightly rephrased the Kokotalk to change the direction of it.
Let Sabrinautopilot handle more of the Oriko conversation, made a more firm commitment to going.
Moved the Homutalk to before heading home, to firm up the mental association that apartment time = mumitime.
"... He played so well, it felt like a dream, everyone loved it. When he finished playing, it felt sad that it was over, but it was so good, you couldn't-"
"Agh! Kwyjibo kyosiko kwaske! Sayaka. Ever since you went to that concert, you've done nothing but talk about Keinske!"
"... He played so well, it felt like a dream, everyone loved it. When he finished playing, it felt sad that it was over, but it was so good, you couldn't-"
"Agh! Kwyjibo kyosiko kwaske! Sayaka. Ever since you went to that concert, you've done nothing but talk about Keinske!"
Mami is, at this point, slumped and cradling her face in her hands. "I see," she says at length, muffled by her hands. You move over, and gently rub her back soothingly, not sure of what else to do.
"Mami, I'm guessing there's history between the two of you," you say gently. "It's OK-"
"It's not just that, Sabrina," Mami whispers. "Sabrina... I can't lose you. I can't lose another one."
Mami's not crying. Not yet, perhaps. She's simply sitting, with her face in her hands, and shoulders slumped. She looks... defeated, for lack of a better word, completely at a loss for what she could do.
"A-another one?" you blurt.
Mami looks up at you, eyes empty. "Kyouko used to be my student... my friend. S-Sabrina, I, I, being a magical girl is so lonely. I- I'm not the cool senior m- magical girl, and-" she's crying now, slow tears sliding silently down her face. "Sabrina, I- I can't lose another friend."
Y- you weren't thinking," Mami echoes hollowly, slow tears beginning to make tracks down her face. "B-but you still- you can talk down Akemi. And Kyouko. And save people, better than I ever c-could. A-and your magic. Y-y-you don't need broken old Mami any more. You never did..."
How about Kyouko, and Yuma?" you ask. Mami twitches again at the question - probably uncomfortable territory for her.
"Sakura Kyouko..." Oriko concentrates for a moment, and then shakes her head. "She's staying out of it."
"Good, I think," you say. Mami relaxes fractionally, nodding in agreement with you, seeming unconsciously. "Last question, unless I think of more - what about the nearby nuclear reactors? Will they be affected?" You can feel the weight of Homura's, Oriko's, and Mami's puzzled looks at you. Kirika seems completely unconcerned, humming to herself and twining her fingers through Oriko's hair.
You flop onto the bench, Mami seating herself more sedately and smoothing down her skirt. "Where do I begin..." you muse, considering how much to tell her. In the end... you're trying to stop hiding things from her, to be less controlling. "Kyouko had a Grief Seed problem," you say slowly, watching Mami. "She didn't have any Seeds on her, and she was still taking care of Yuma, so I gave her one and offered cleanses."
Mami bites her lip, brow knotted in a worried frown. "Is she..."
"Yeah, she's OK," you hasten to reassure her with a hand on her shoulder. "Like I said, I gave her a Grief Seed, and I told her she can call me in at any time. After that, I had a fun spar with her, and she said that we aren't friends, and that she isn't being tsundere. Which is a huge step up from last time, so, uh. Overall I'm calling it a success."
You flop onto the bench, Mami seating herself more sedately and smoothing down her skirt. "Where do I begin..." you muse, considering how much to tell her. In the end... you're trying to stop hiding things from her, to be less controlling. "Kyouko had a Grief Seed problem," you say slowly, watching Mami. "She didn't have any Seeds on her, and she was still taking care of Yuma, so I gave her one and offered cleanses."
Mami bites her lip, brow knotted in a worried frown. "Is she..."
"Yeah, she's OK," you hasten to reassure her with a hand on her shoulder. "Like I said, I gave her a Grief Seed, and I told her she can call me in at any time. After that, I had a fun spar with her, and she said that we aren't friends, and that she isn't being tsundere. Which is a huge step up from last time, so, uh. Overall I'm calling it a success."
Mami nods slowly. "That's... good. Um..."
"Mm?" you look at her inquisitively.
Her golden eyes flick up to yours, and then down again, hands worrying at the hem of her uniform blouse, twisting the fabric back and forth. You bring your hand over to rest on hers. "Mami?"
She heaves a sigh, eyes still downcast. Old pain, tempered by anger in the set of her brows, flickers across her face. "I... we... Kyouko and I parted on... very poor terms."
You close your hand lightly on hers, and she turns one hand upwards to clasp yours, palm to palm. You squeeze lightly in comfort. "I know, Mami," you say. "I know."
You squeeze Mami's hand. "I-" you shake your head. "I guess I jumped the gun a little. I didn't mean to conceal anything from you - it's just that after I brought the idea of having Kyouko train Sayaka up with you, I went ahead and mentioned it to her. I'm sorry I didn't tell you yet - I didn't think it was urgent, and stuff kept coming up."
Mami swallows, eyes wide. "I-" she bites her lip. "A-alright. I- I suppose I shouldn't be upset."
"No," you say, squeezing Mami's hand tightly. "No, Mami. Are you upset? I- there's no such thing as 'shouldn't be upset'. If you are, you are."
Mami looks down, her eyes finding your joined hands. "I- I am. I-" she shakes her head. "I'm not upset at you. I- I know you're b-busy. Just, I- you know my history with her, and... it's for the good of Sayaka, but- it's hard."
"Thank you for understanding," you say softly. "I- first of all, I'm trying to be better about all this. Mami, you matter to me, and I'm trying to keep you in the loop. Just... I genuinely didn't think this one would come up so soon."
She gives you a wan smile. "How could you?"
"Yeah, well... I want to be more open with you," you say. "And... well. Second, I... Sayaka's my friend, but she's your student, and Mitakihara is your territory."
"It's our territory," Mami says, closing her free hand on top of yours.
Don't be. It's OK, Mami," you say, squeezing her around the waist. "Talk to me?"
"I-" she shakes her head, mask cracking. "Sabrina, I- you're just... putting so much effort-"
"Breathe," you encourage, smiling at her. "Breathe, slow down. You don't have to get it all out at once."
"It's- it's hard," Mami whispers. "I just- Kyouko is just- I fought with her and I, I- I might have killed her but I couldn't do it."
"That's a good thing," you whisper fiercely. You fumble for her free hand, lacing your fingers together and squeezing, trying to convey comfort and reassurance.
"I- I know," Mami says.
You pull her into a tight hug. Her head finds the crook of your neck, buried there like she's trying to hide from the world.
How do I interpret all of this? Well, really, it all boils down to a single line.
"It's- it's hard," Mami whispers. "I just- Kyouko is just- I fought with her and I, I- I might have killed her but I couldn't do it."
Mami felt that she should have killed Kyouko, morally speaking. Probably Mami believes that familiar farming gucas are... Yeah. Which, well... It's true.
Everything else is nothing more than a record of loneliness and pain and caring. Mami still cares for Kyouko, Mami misses Kyouko, Mami hurts at the thought of Kyouko.
And it all comes down to that, doesn't it? Mami wants Kyouko back, but she can't act on it because of Kyouko's choice going against her moral code.
BTW, unrelated note but Kyouko still cares about Mami.
You sigh as you fall in behind Kyouko. Yuma glances back, still gnawing on the pocky stick, and gives you a happy little wave that you can't help but smile at before turning your attention back to Kyouko's question. She would go for the hard question first, huh?
"No, she didn't," you say, shaking your head with a quiet sigh. "I told her I'd be here, but sticking my nose into everyone else's business is entirely my own idea. And honestly... She's not doing well." You blurt out that last line before you can lose your nerve.
Kyouko stops dead, Yuma continuing on a step before herself being brought up short by her hand, held in the redhead's. Kyouko half turns, glancing at you sidelong with narrowed eyes. "Oh?" she drawls, her posture loose and deliberately relaxed.
You... should probably explain. "Yeah," you say, keeping your hands hanging neutrally at your sides. "She... she gets morose. Withdrawn, if I so much as bring you up."
Faded crimson eyes narrow slightly.
Yuma glances anxiously up at her adopted big sister, then at you.
You meet Kyouko's eyes squarely. "You know Kyuubey. The little white rat was using Mami. She didn't take the news well."
With a loud, expressive crunch, Kyouko bites through the pocky stick in her mouth, and she holds her hand up to the stick, shoving it fully into her mouth, before replacing it. "Shi-" she chokes off the word, lips flattening together. Her jaw works for a moment, before she pivots sharply and stalking off, towing Yuma along by the hand.
"Owie, owie, big sis, you're hurting Yuma," the younger girl cries, almost dragged bodily along with the crimson haired girl's longer strides.
Kyouko flinches, stopping in her tracks and abruptly releasing Yuma's hand. "Shit. Sorry, Yuma," she says.
Anyway, this is the full depth of the Mami-Kyouko problem, from Mami's side. She doesn't know how to patch things up with Kyouko, and whenever she tries to think about it she slaps herself for thinking about trying to patch things up with someone she maybe should have killed.
(A clarification: she doesn't believe she should have killed Kyouko. But some part of her believes that she should believe she should have killed Kyouko, to prevent familiar farming and the associated deaths of innocents)
To Mami it's an insurmountable problem. To us it's a burden of two sentences. Two sentences, to shatter the entire thing into a million tiny pieces.
"She changed for the worse to push you away, because she had decided that her presence could only end up hurting you." (Citation: The Different Story)
"It's possible for the two of you to reconcile."
Two sentences to destroy and rebuild the entire world as she knew it, before us.
I can't agree on the assertion that Kyouko's privacy is more important than that. I cannot. Especially not when the entire point on Kyouko's part was to avoid bringing harm to Mami -- but not sharing this with Mami has and will continue to cause more pain to Mami than anything that could possibly evolve from sharing it with her, so long as Sabrina lives. To conceal it on the basis of privacy is hypocrisy, idiocy, and unethical.
...
But doing it here and now is too much.
Mami social has to be paced, and the Asunaro talk -- and Mami's guilt complex around us -- are more important at the moment. In an ideal world (or my ideal world, anyway) we'd go home now and just spend the entire night with Mami and she'd wake up happy. But we have more on our plate. The Kokotalk needs to wait, although it needs to happen soon. A full-on Kokotalk here would pretty well lay Mami out for the rest of the day, and she still has stuff to do and we still have things to talk to her about.
So we're going to say that. And if she grabs us and goes "tell me" then I'm underestimating the value allocation and we talk.
After that... I don't --
Hm. @Redshirt Army, if we plan on going over to Asunaro tommorow then even something like "we're going over there soon" isn't going to put the Asunaros in the mindset of "brina at lunch". Thoughts?
[x] Visit Kuroki's last known location in person.
-[x] Look for clues. SCIENCE as appropriate. Break to voting if you find something.
[X] Talk to Mami. Regarding Kyouko and her, you have a not-exactly-a-plan. The details are a little much for the moment, maybe? But... Happy ending?
-[X] Anyway, right now -- Kyouko training Sayaka, details thereof, permission.
[x] Do whatever @Redshirt Army's vote does from this point on.
if we plan on going over to Asunaro tommorow then even something like "we're going over there soon" isn't going to put the Asunaros in the mindset of "brina at lunch". Thoughts?
If, upon hearing that a grief manipulator wants to visit, the Asunaro girls are like "sure Wednesday is fine", then I'm willing to take them at their word that they won't self destruct until then. They'd know how urgent the situation is better than most, and the really bad shit shouldn't be happening yet.
If it's as clear cut as you say, then convince Kyouko of it first. "Pushing Mami away is hurting her." I will not share it without Kyouko's consent until the stakes are much higher than they are now. It's not our secret to share, and spreading it anyway is a troubling precedent.
If, upon hearing that a grief manipulator wants to visit, the Asunaro girls are like "sure Wednesday is fine", then I'm willing to take them at their word that they won't self destruct until then. They'd know how urgent the situation is better than most, and the really bad shit shouldn't be happening yet.
If they're not okay with us coming tomorrow, then I suspect that it will be because they want us to come sooner rather than later, because the situation is too desperate to wait another day.
If it's as clear cut as you say, then convince Kyouko of it first. "Pushing Mami away is hurting her." I will not share it without Kyouko's consent until the stakes are much higher than they are now. It's not our secret to share, and spreading it anyway is a troubling precedent.
The thing is, Kyouko doesn't know that we know. This is something that we only know because of metaknowledge, because Kyouko never told us about it. In fact, she flat out lied about the circumstances of her split with Mami (or has completely internalized a false recollection of it). So to get her permission to share it, we would have to first explain how we knew what was happening inside her mind a year ago, thoughts that she might not even still remember clearly herself. How exactly do we have that conversation without getting stabbed in the face?
If they're not okay with us coming tomorrow, then I suspect that it will be because they want us to come sooner rather than later, because the situation is too desperate to wait another day.
The thing is, Kyouko doesn't know that we know. This is something that we only know because of metaknowledge, because Kyouko never told us about it. In fact, she flat out lied about the circumstances of her split with Mami (or has completely internalized a false recollection of it). So to get her permission to share it, we would have to first explain how we knew what was happening inside her mind a year ago, thoughts that she might not even still remember clearly herself. How exactly do we have that conversation without getting stabbed in the face?
