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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Kaizuki said:
I'm not strawmanning you. If you meant that you were concerned about us making Madoka feel like we were coddling her, you should god damn well have said that instead of specifically describing the actions we were proposing to take as coddling.

Did you argue that we were going to make her feel coddled? Yeah. You also quite specifically described the actions we were proposing to take as coddling. You don't get to just say you didn't say these things and that we're strawmanning you. There is a breakdown of communication on both sides and if you can't acknowledge that and work to improve your side of the problem then it will not ever be fixed.
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The Narrator said:
I hate having to repeat myself, but I guess I have to: I'm not concerned with looking professional at this point. I'm concerned with embarrassing Madoka in front of company and making her feel condescended to by treating her like she needs immediate coddling every time she hears something sad.
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Uh.

I'm, uh.

Pretty sure that the things you're quoting are saying... exactly what Narrator said they're saying?
 
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:V Here Firn, just put these options at the end of every update and everything will be solved! :V

[] Attempt to construct...
- [] Coobie voltron (It looks like a lion. Sort of. If you squint.)
- [] Coobie centipede (ala Human Centipede)
[] Drop kick the Incubator
- [] Into the street
- [] Over a building
- [] Over a skyscraper
- [] Over the river
[] Eat the Marshmallow
- [] Boiled
- [] Mashed
- [] Stewed
- [] Braised
- [] Raw
- [] Fried
- [] Toasted over a fire
- [] S'mores!
- [] With red wine
- [] With white wine, you barbarian
- [] With a soft drink, you doubleplusungood barbarian
[] FLESH OF FALLEN ANGELS
[] Invent Incubator glovery (glove making)
[] Invent Incubator millinery (hat making)
- [] Coobieskin fedora
- [] Coobieskin cap
- [] Coobieskin fedora
- [] Coobieskin tophat
- [] Coobieskin trilby
[] Long throw the Incubator
- [] Against the wall
- [] See how many richochets you can get
- [] Skipping stone across the river
[] Light the Incubator on fire
- [] Tail first
- [] Ear first
- [] Head first
- [] Feet first
- [] "Hey Oriko, what accelerant did you use?"
[] Pet the Incubator
- [] Make it do tricks
- [] Feed it treats
[] Punt the Incubator
- [] Into a garbage truck
- [] Off a building
- [] Off a skycraper
- [] Into the river
[] Shred the Incubator
- [] Tail first
- [] Ear first
- [] Head first
- [] Feet first
[] Sit on the Incubator
[] Talk to the Incubator
- [] Write-in topic
[] Hug Mami

(I made a small edit at the end)
 
Folks.

Firn called out the toxicity and factionalism five pages ago. They asked for help in handling the quest. We're ignoring them in favor of going back to yelling at each other.

Can we put this off for maybe just a day?
 
Firnagzen said:
Rather so, yes. I understand the grudges existing, but they're part of the problem.

Frankly: I am tempted to start handing out threadbans.
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So if people aren't allowed to directly argue about stuff they disagree with for fear of crossing some invisible line that will make you threadban them for it, and they're not allowed to vent in relative private about how frustrated they are... what do you expect to happen?

Bolting the lid down on a boiling pot just turns it into a pressure cooker.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Firn called out the toxicity and factionalism five pages ago. They asked for help in handling the quest. We're ignoring them in favor of going back to yelling at each other.
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He also asked for people to start talking to each other instead of griping behind their backs about people they disagree with, and the venue for such venting has been removed. I don't know what he expected to happen.

People aren't going back to yelling at each other, they're just now starting.
 
Random832 said:
So if people aren't allowed to directly argue about stuff they disagree with for fear of crossing some invisible line that will make you threadban them for it, and they're not allowed to vent in relative private about how frustrated they are... what do you expect to happen?

Bolting the lid down on a boiling pot just turns it into a pressure cooker.
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I expect people to govern their own tone and behave in a civil manner that, to extend the analogy, removes the pot from the fire. And if they do not, then they are forcibly removed from the thread by way of threadban for a few days to cool off.
 
linkhyrule5 said:
Actually I'm pretty sure there is such a rule, but I could be wrong.
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Rule 5, possibly along with Rules 2, 3, and 4. They don't specifically list what's being done here, but certainly in spirit. There's also the mod post earlier this year:

Havocfett said:
[stop=Ugolino, Again]@Ugolino was threadbanned from this thread for being a persistent problem. The purpose of this was to keep him from getting into arguments, harassing people, and generally being a pest to other users in the thread.

He instead took it to profile posts and PMs, including harassing people about votes in the quest on their profile pages. This went on for months before someone reported one of his posts to the staff.

That is not a good thing. He's eaten a tempban for harassment on profile pages, if he does it again when he gets back, please report the relevant posts or PMs.[/stop]
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AuraTwilight said:
Yea, like I said, being emotionally considerate and extra-intimate is the cultural norm for teenage girls in Japan. They're literally encouraged into it.

And Madoka is usually the first to offer that exact sort of comfort in similar situations as this. Emotionally comforting her would close the rift, not widen it; she doesn't care about 'coddling' so much as not being included and feeling like she's not contributed. She doesn't mind being helped if she can help in turn, and she literally just spent the entire last evening being a major emotional pillar for everyone here who isn't from out of the country.
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And yeah, the moment AuraTwilight said this before was the point I stopped arguing for my position, because I really don't have any special insight into Japanese girl culture. I do know that if something like this happened in the Chinese-American culture that I'm more familiar with, boy or girl the one who had the serious conversation with a stranger derailed so she could be hugged in public and by implication accused of having an emotional breakdown would be absolutely mortified, but I guess among Japanese girls that's not the case. Well okay then, learn something new every day.
 
Firnagzen said:
Frankly: I am tempted to start handing out threadbans.
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As I said before, I do kind of think that not being willing to at least warn anyone and everyone who fails to be civil is part of the reason it's gotten so bad. Bad behavior unchallenged is bad behavior repeated.

If you feel that I'm exacerbating the situation, I'll refrain from making any further replies for a bit.
 
TheEyes said:
Rule 5, possibly along with Rules 2, 3, and 4. They don't specifically list what's being done here, but certainly in spirit. There's also the mod post earlier this year:
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That is not how I interpret that mod post. There's nothing in there about it being a problem for him to talk with people who are willing to listen to him. The post talks about Ugo harassing people. That's a matter between him and the people he is communicating with, if they do not feel harassed what business is it of yours?

Maybe he meant it the way you interpreted it, maybe he meant it the way I interpreted it. This is why I've called on Firnagzen to seek clarity here.

(It was pointed out to me, not long after the Discord started, when I was bitter about the sudden drop in thread discussion quality that I was blaming on the PM threads that I'd just found out about, that this decline was in fact associated with Ugo being banned from the thread. He had a bad temper, but he was the heart and soul of this thread.)
 
Random832 said:
He also asked for people to start talking to each other instead of griping behind their backs about people they disagree with, and the venue for such venting has been removed. I don't know what he expected to happen.

People aren't going back to yelling at each other, they're just now starting.
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I imagine that he expected Rule 3. We are all at least nominally mature and reasonable people. When given infinite time to type, re-type, and edit our posts before hitting the "Post Reply" button, I'm sure we can all find it in us to hold onto basic civility at the least. But ultimately that's not the topic; we're meant to be discussing solutions.
 
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