The reason that Madoka has that huge potential is not because Homura cares about her (per se), but rather that her death is the linking point of all the different timelines so she achieves a huge importance. But her death is directly caused by Walpurgisnacht in most of those timelines, so Walpurgisnacht is also hugely important (though not quite as important as Madoka).

Just gonna ignore the usage of 'single point', then? Okay.

While I haven't read that manga, Madoka's potential means that she is in a league by herself when it comes to strength. Presumably, soul gem capacity is a part of that strength. So Madoka "splitting the magical costs" with someone who lacks her soul gem capacity sounds like a horrible idea and not a good indicator of how expensive the attack would have been for Madoka if she had done it alone.

It's enough to witch her out instantly, as Homura says herself from experience, so she tries to take the load, telling Madoka she'll do it 50/50 when she tries to take most of it.
 
I would like to talk up Sayaka and Homura too, as a side note. I'd like to at least see Bennouna's reaction to the knowledge that everybody sitting at the table is on Mami's level.
Homura is, sure. Sayaka most assuredly is not. We just spent several hours yesterday trying to cure her of her overconfidence and Leeroy Jenkins tendencies. Let's not undo all that hard work.

It's only with us around that she can hold on to multiple powers indefinitely and go crazy.
We haven't actually established that she can do that even with us around. She's never even tried holding two powers at once, so we have no idea if it will work. (She also doesn't need us around if it does, because she has a Clear Seed.)

The only thing of value we can offer are Clear Seeds.
We can also refresh normal Seeds so that they'll last indefinitely. And we can pay people who do stuff for us in cash money, just like any employer would.

We're talking about refugees here. All they want is a place where they'll be safe and comfortable.

But even if the "one shot" explanation was true in Timeline 4, it still doesn't explain why Madoka would have witched out right after killing Walpurgisnacht in Timeline 100, since she should have had way more potential to work with.
A thought I've had on this for quite some time: a meguca's power output scales with potential, but does the grief capacity of her soul gem? It's possible that Madoka is drawing godlike voltage, but with only a human-sized capacitor, so she immediately blows a fuse.

And, you know, Sayaka doesn't even fucking know what Homura's powerset is...
Sayaka does know. We told her yesterday during the Oriko bomb.

Although that still doesn't mean that we should tell Nadia without Homura's permission. It's really not necessary. Madoka already knows, and she's the one we're trying to reassure.
 
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Yeah dealing with Homura's concept of keeping to the promise being ensuring Madoka doesn't contract is a problem. We'd have to find a way to erode that. The letter of her promise was ensuring Madoka doesn't get tricked.

She asks Homura to "Save my stupid self before I get tricked by Kyubey". If she knows the apocalypsebomb/witchbomb and contracts in a way that neutralizes that, the letter of the promise is kept.
Speeking of the whole "apocalypsebomb" thing: If we manage to get the whole "manage to get Witches to be sane-ish" idea could we just manage to set off Madoka safely? And off planet?
 
It would be nice to create one of those wire nets that cuts/burn into the witch body or just create a dome and use it as a shield bash if plan A fails.

With what?

The only thing of value we can offer are Clear Seeds. Since cleansing is a strictly local act (given our 100 meter range), the only way they could take advantage of that is by having us cover the costs of teleporting to our location.

Money and shelter talks especially for refugees plus with human nature you get a sense of debt or over time loyalty.

[x] Kaizuki
 
Money and shelter talks especially for refugees plus with human nature you get a sense of debt or over time loyalty.
Speeking of which: We should see if we can enchant something to effect another enchantment. If we can we might be able to make some Grief that controls other Grief via our power. We might be able to run Nanobot.exe on our powers. It doesn't even need to effect the Grief directly if we can do it for it. Having high material science/engineering skills can make people want to work with us even more then they already do.
 
Speeking of which: We should see if we can enchant something to effect another enchantment. If we can we might be able to make some Grief that controls other Grief via our power. We might be able to run Nanobot.exe on our powers. It doesn't even need to effect the Grief directly if we can do it for it. Having high material science/engineering skills can make people want to work with us even more then they already do.

Could try our grief cloud as an enchantment fog form that floats through and disrupt fixed magic or enchantment with varying effects. Its like those magic spells that set off any traps in the area. Anyway this need people and time.
 
Could try our grief cloud as an enchantment fog form that floats through and disrupt fixed magic or enchantment with varying effects. Its like those magic spells that set off any traps in the area. Anyway this need people and time.
Was just a seed of a idea that i didn't want to die. I normally get a lot of flack for handing those out. The basic throught was that we might be able to offload the processing without actually offloading the affect. I don't think our powers get more expensive with detail, so maybe there is a different system handling control (Like just straight up our Soul) and the only limit is the amount of energy output from the movements? So having something handle the detail for us like a computer would be interesting because of the outputs we could get from it.
 
Speeking of the whole "apocalypsebomb" thing: If we manage to get the whole "manage to get Witches to be sane-ish" idea could we just manage to set off Madoka safely? And off planet?
The apocalypsebomb is somewhat different from the others - while Madoka's the one being bombed, it's Homura who takes the fall. We'd have to convince Homura that becoming a witch is suddenly acceptable now, else she loops again, possibly with a bullet to our gem beforehand. And if Homura's potentialbombed before that, she'd probably auto-witch.
 
Ok some persons have raised concerns that this line is contract bait for doka. Please discuss, I am v. Tired.
Instead of focusing on their utility, focus on ours? "The kind of person who would do that is the kind of person we most want to help"?

Really the problem is that it would absolutely make sense for Madoka to contract to help our plans if not for the witch thing. With Madoka not knowing it we will always have to be careful about how we discuss recruitment. And organization. And infrastructure. And a whole lot of other stuff. But especially recruitment.
 
Instead of focusing on their utility, focus on ours? "The kind of person who would do that is the kind of person we most want to help"?

*nods* this makes sense to me and I think I agree with it. We don't need the other part, we can stick with just saying we want to help them. Thanks torg.

Original:
[X] Remain casual.
[X] Facepalm. Wow, did you just deliver that to her that way? Sorry, Madoka.
-[X] City-destroying, potentially, life-threatening, no. The city will be evacuated on the civilian end, and, well...
--[X] We hold back. A lot. Explain the mecha that we made with Mami the one time, including -- emphasizing -- the ease with which it allowed us to crush that barrier. That was just Mami and us cutting loose just a bit for just a little while.
-[X] More girls would help limit the property damage, though, which could be considerable, and... You quite like Mitakihara intact.
-[X] But we're also interested because the kind of person who would help with something like this is the kind of person we want to be in contact with, the kind of person we want to support.

[X] Remain casual.
[X] Facepalm. Wow, did you just deliver that to her that way? Sorry, Madoka.
-[X] City-destroying, potentially, life-threatening, no. The city will be evacuated on the civilian end, and, well...
--[X] We hold back. A lot. Explain the mecha that we made with Mami the one time, including -- emphasizing -- the ease with which it allowed us to crush that barrier. That was just Mami and us cutting loose just a bit for just a little while.
-[X] More girls would help limit the property damage, though, which could be considerable, and... You quite like Mitakihara intact.
-[X] But we're also interested because the kind of person who would help with something like this is the kind of person we most want to support.
 
Speeking of the whole "apocalypsebomb" thing: If we manage to get the whole "manage to get Witches to be sane-ish" idea could we just manage to set off Madoka safely? And off planet?

Speeking of which: We should see if we can enchant something to effect another enchantment. If we can we might be able to make some Grief that controls other Grief via our power. We might be able to run Nanobot.exe on our powers. It doesn't even need to effect the Grief directly if we can do it for it. Having high material science/engineering skills can make people want to work with us even more then they already do.


The apocalypsebomb is somewhat different from the others - while Madoka's the one being bombed, it's Homura who takes the fall. We'd have to convince Homura that becoming a witch is suddenly acceptable now, else she loops again, possibly with a bullet to our gem beforehand. And if Homura's potentialbombed before that, she'd probably auto-witch.

If Homura gets potential bombed by Kyubey that's probable auto-witching. We might need something like fruitful dewitching research to erode at Homura's current definition of what she promised Madoka.

Viral Grief is cool. I proposed that a while back as a means of range limit circumvention but we haven't investigated it for fear of a gray goo scenario or something. I also wanted to reiterate that the 'sane witches' idea, at least as I formulated it, is based around soul gems driving grief puppets and self cleansing, whether by changing the contract system or by making a griefbender who can turn other magical girls into griefbenders. Is this the von neumann griefbender makes Madoka a griefbender to neutralize the threat of her witch proposal or is it something else?

Disclaimer: I have a funeral to be at soon, any replies are likely to be delayed.
 
...We could TELL Madoka what wish to make, if we can't stop her from contracting, we control what wish she makes, she has the potential for ANY wish...She could use our power, or the ability to cleanse anything...
 
The apocalypsebomb is somewhat different from the others - while Madoka's the one being bombed, it's Homura who takes the fall. We'd have to convince Homura that becoming a witch is suddenly acceptable now, else she loops again, possibly with a bullet to our gem beforehand. And if Homura's potentialbombed before that, she'd probably auto-witch.
Madoka wants to know which option is best, and Homura needs to know which options aren't unacceptable, that is to say that they need to be ones in which Madoka is happy/functional/rational/Madoka/with her, if she is going to let them happen. Anything else we can deal with via hug /ice cream/bad movies/talking things through.
 
We need to spend more time on the social sciences.
Worst of both worlds!
Adhoc vote count started by Onmur on Apr 8, 2017 at 1:21 PM, finished with 114256 posts and 21 votes.

  • [X] Remain casual.
    [X] Facepalm. Wow, did you just deliver that to her that way? Sorry, Madoka.
    -[X] City-destroying, potentially, life-threatening, no. The city will be evacuated on the civilian end, and, well...
    --[X] We hold back. A lot. Explain the mecha that we made with Mami the one time, including -- emphasizing -- the ease with which it allowed us to crush that barrier. That was just Mami and us cutting loose just a bit for just a little while.
    -[X] More girls would help limit the property damage, though, which could be considerable, and... You quite like Mitakihara intact.
    -[X] But we're also interested because the kind of person who would help with something like this is the kind of person we most want to support.
    [X] Show confidence.
    -[X] Yep. And we're going to kill it. Truthfully, you'd give yourself decent odds against Walpurgisnacht, and with the four of you together, you're sure you'll win. The problem is, Walpurgis fights by throwing buildings, so you need to kill her as quickly as possible.
    -[X] So you figure, why attack with just the four of you? Why not have ten, why not have dozens of magical girls ready to hunt down that Witch as soon as it shows its face?
    -[X] Share the fact Homura will evacuate the city, so it's not lives you're worried about.
    [X] Back to Nadia. So now we've got quite a few magical girl names to find and recruit; you're asking because you want more. You want overkill. If she can help you get any and every magical girl able and willing to fight Walpurgis together, you'd be quite grateful.
    [x] Explain about Oriko's predictions that we would defeat Walpurgisnacht, but note that she did not specify exactly how that victory would occur nor that it would be without collateral damage to the city. So we want to weight the odds in our favor as much as possible.
    [x] Explain what we know about Walpurgisnacht and ask if Nadia knows any more.
 
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