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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Kaizuki said:
So... In terms of actual plans... Well we could reverse course here but that would be a major derp. Ok, so, free clear seeds for everyone.
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Wait, really? What's stopping magical girls from just dropping by, taking free seeds, and then going off to do whatever? If they do bad stuff that you guys object to, they'd just leave. They have no reason to stick around or listen to Sabrina. They'd already be set for life grief wise. Which is a major plus, don't get me wrong, but I'm definitely seeing some potential unintentional consequences here. Probably not the right tact to use if planning on building some thing big here.
 
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Vebyast said:
-[X] Ask if she knows any magical girls who might be willing to travel to Mitakihara to fight a city-destroying witch. There'll be free cleansings and maybe a fabulous cake!
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This line... I hate this line. I hate it so much. This should be something like "if there's anyone who'd like to help fight a city destroying witch and get fukin paid for it yo, clear seeds and $$" or something. It's just ridiculous, it's being flippant about walpurgisnacht, it makes us seem really... Naive, insane, stupid, take your pick.

Vebyast said:
X] Muse aloud about how you've kinda thought about hiring her to serve as a diplomat of sorts to other groups, but since you'd give her a clear seed and clean her soul gem anyway, the only thing you'd really have to pay her with is "borrowed" yakuza gold, and that's not any fun.
-[X] That reminds you, you should tell Sayaka about the mop.

[x] Wacky hijinks aside, you're idealistic, not stupid. This is serious business.
-[x] You're essentially proposing to create a small nation. Even with cleansing dealt with you'll still have to keep the peace. Keep hunting witches, integrate with the mundane economy, put past grievances aside and carry on with their lives, girls that are too traumatized to function...
-[x] You can probably police Mitakihara up to several dozen girls, but to really scale you'll need to find more people like yourself and your teammates. Girls that are skilled, capable, motivated, and, above all, moral.
-[x] You'd like to hire Bennouna on - real-money compensation - as a recruiter and diplomat. Anyone that she meets that you should talk to, you'd like her to put you in contact with them. You can supply money to put them on planes to you, or you can fly out to meet them.
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If nothing else the "oh i only have gold" is still in there which is false. Integrating with mundane economy sounds too much like integrating with the mundanes full-stop, I'd drop it. And I'd rather drop the muse part entirely, though telling Sayaka about the mop is hell yes.

Agent Whiskers said:
Wait, really? What's stopping magical girls from just dropping by, taking free seeds, and then going off to do whatever? If they do bad stuff that you guys object to, they'd just leave. They have no reason to stick around or listen to Sabrina. They'd already be set for life grief wise. Which is a major plus, don't get me wrong, but I'm definitely seeing some potential unintentional consequences here.
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We've committed to it. I don't know what more to say. I don't really know if I like that we have, but what's done is done. We could make them public rather than private -- set them up in open locations and lock them there somehow, let girls come to them. But that doesnt help with spirals. I don't know.
 
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Kaizuki said:
So... In terms of actual plans... Well we could reverse course here but that would be a major derp. Ok, so, free clear seeds for everyone.
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Again, Sabrina did not say she would be handing Clear Seeds out to anyone and everyone upon asking. It can still be a goal to get everyone a Clear Seed eventually, but realistically, as you've pointed out, doing it immediately would potentially have severe repercussions. A cautious rollout is still not only viable, but so long as we don't screw up (ha!) certainly plausible. Your suggestion of "deputized" Clear Seed holding megucas is, frankly, a probable result of handing out Clear Seeds intelligently, as we'd likely be giving them out first to megucas we trust and interact with more, and these would be the same girls we ask for help in dealing with girls who go off the rails. We have built-in, previously established reasons for not giving CSs out to people when we can't continue to observe their effects or communicate consistently with their holders, and Sabrina can clear Soul Gems and Grief Seeds for free for anyone in the city while she continues to ensure that the CSs are wholly safe.

By not handing out CSs immediately to anyone who asks, which, again, she has not actually declared she will do, she preserves her ability to monitor their effects without empowering potentially dangerous elements. By continuing to be a free source of grief clearance in the interim (which can be as long as we feel necessary to determine safety), she preserves her moral and idealistic integrity while still granting her and her allies power and leverage over anyone who enters the city; if people aren't playing by the rules, say, by attacking her, they're inherently not going to be getting her help clearing their grief until they're under control. Finally, as you've noted, by initially giving out Clear Seeds to her friends and allies, she gives them force multipliers in the form of near constant grief removal. We haven't lost control; we're still in a potentially very good position here.
 
[X] In no particular order:
-[X] Hey, does she have a cell number, or an email address you can reach her at?
-[X] Ask her about magical girl current events. Anything interesting? Anything potentially dangerous looming?
-[X] Ask about the oldest magical girl she's heard of, and how old is she.
-[X] Ask about magical girls whose magic allows them to manipulate the soul. You have a source who indicated one would be coming here soon, and you want to know more about them, if possible.
-[X] Ask if she made all the enchanted items on her, or if she purchased them, and if the latter, how does she keep them charged.
-[X] Ask her if she knows of any magical girls who are fluent in Japanese, are decent people, and have any of the following powers:
--[X] Long-range teleportation or portals.
--[X] Any sort of danger sense that can be used to find threats to other people before the occur.
--[X] The ability to enhance or amplify the magic of others.
--[X] The ability to protect the minds of others from being tampered with.
--[X] High-end healing abilities.
--[X] Anyone who is particularly skilled at enchanting.
-[X] Ask if she knows anything about the magical girls in Asunaro. It's a silly place, but you think you need to know. For reasons.
-[X] Ask if she knows anything else that might be useful to know for a girl who wants to help people.

[X] You've thought about hiring her to serve as a diplomat of sorts to other groups, but since you'd give her a clear seed and clean her soul gem anyway, you're not sure how to pay her except with your borrowed yakuza gold, and that's not any fun.
-[X] That reminds you, you should tell Sayaka about the mop.

[x] Wacky hijinks aside, you're idealistic, not stupid. This is serious business.
-[x] You're essentially proposing to create a small nation. Even with cleansing dealt with you'll still have to keep the peace. Keep hunting witches, find ways to eat that don't involve thievery, put past grievances aside and carry on with their lives, girls that are too traumatized to function...
-[x] You can probably police Mitakihara up to several dozen girls, but to really scale you'll need to find more people like yourself and your teammates. Girls that are skilled, capable, motivated, and, above all, moral.
-[x] You'd like to hire Bennouna - real-money compensation, or you can figure out something else - as a recruiter and diplomat. Anyone that she meets that you should talk to, you'd like her to put you in contact with them. You can supply money to put them on planes to you, or you can fly out to meet them.
-[X] Ask if she knows any magical girls who might be willing to travel to Mitakihara to fight Walpurgisnacht.
-[X] Ask about magical girl groups that are particularly large, powerful, influential, or nasty. You know you're going to cause some waves with your offer of cleansing and clear seeds, so you want to know about groups that might cause issues.
 
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KInruush said:
Again, Sabrina did not say she would be handing Clear Seeds out to anyone and everyone upon asking. It can still be a goal to get everyone a Clear Seed eventually, but realistically, as you've pointed out, doing it immediately would potentially have severe repercussions. A cautious rollout is still not only viable, but so long as we don't screw up (ha!) certainly plausible. Your suggestion of "deputized" Clear Seed holding megucas is, frankly, a probable result of handing out Clear Seeds intelligently, as we'd likely be giving them out first to megucas we trust and interact with more, and these would be the same girls we ask for help in dealing with girls who go off the rails. We have built-in, previously established reasons for not giving CSs out to people when we can't continue to observe their effects or communicate consistently with their holders, and Sabrina can clear Soul Gems and Grief Seeds for free for anyone in the city while she continues to ensure that the CSs are wholly safe.

By not handing out CSs immediately to anyone who asks, which, again, she has not actually declared she will do, she preserves her ability to monitor their effects without empowering potentially dangerous elements. By continuing to be a free source of grief clearance in the interim (which can be as long as we feel necessary to determine safety), she preserves her moral and idealistic integrity while still granting her and her allies power and leverage over anyone who enters the city; if people aren't playing by the rules, say, by attacking her, they're inherently not going to be getting her help clearing their grief until they're under control. Finally, as you've noted, by initially giving out Clear Seeds to her friends and allies, she gives them force multipliers in the form of near constant grief removal. We haven't lost control; we're still in a potentially very good position here.
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You seem to have missed a critical element. The main distribution mechanism for CS is unlikely to be Sabrina handing them out. Much more likely is jane guca picking up a grief seed from somewhere, walking up to Brina, and sniffle constantly while saying "Pls brina i no haz parents plz make clear seed plz T_T."

I see no universe where a declaration that we'll give out clear seeds for free is compatible with refusing that sort of thing.
 
Kaizuki said:
You seem to have missed a critical element. The main distribution mechanism for CS is unlikely to be Sabrina handing them out. Much more likely is jane guca picking up a grief seed from somewhere, walking up to Brina, and sniffle constantly while saying "Pls brina i no haz parents plz make clear seed plz T_T."

I see no universe where a declaration that we'll give out clear seeds for free is compatible with refusing that sort of thing.
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There's a difference between "free" and "no questions asked".
 
The Narrator said:
Every indication so far is that being de-gemmed isn't painful in any way. They basically just black out. Sayaka's merely confused when she wakes up in Episode 6. As for the bodies, I assume that healing magic would stave off any decay, if we didn't want to put them on ice.
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It was traumatic as hell for those around her, which is the issue. Constantly healing the bodies would take way too much fucking time, and putting them on ice involves having a place to put what are effectively dead bodies in fridges and not have anyone find them.

Torgamous said:
There's a difference between "free" and "no questions asked".
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-_-

And then you're accused of lying. Because it's not free, it's "questions asked."
 
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It might be worth re-ordering your vote a bit, @Vebyast. I'm not changing my vote, because I think yours works, but I'd like to suggest some modifications. Comments in (yellow), changes in red, because I'm unimaginative.

[X] In no particular order:
-[X] Hey, does she have a cell number, or an email address you can reach her at?
-[X] Ask her about magical girl current events. Anything interesting? Anything potentially dangerous looming?
-[X] Ask about the oldest magical girl she's heard of, and how old is she.
-[X] Ask about magical girls whose magic allows them to manipulate the soul. You have a source who indicated one would be coming here soon, and you want to know more about them, if possible.
-[X] Ask if she made all the enchanted items on her, or if she purchased them, and if the latter, how does she keep them charged.
-[X] Ask her if she knows of any magical girls who are fluent in Japanese, are decent people, and have any of the following powers:
--[X] Long-range teleportation or portals.
--[X] Any sort of danger sense that can be used to find threats to other people before the occur.
--[X] The ability to enhance or amplify the magic of others.
--[X] The ability to protect the minds of others from being tampered with.
--[X] High-end healing abilities.
--[X] Anyone who is particularly skilled at enchanting.
-[X] Ask if she knows anything about the magical girls in Asunaro. It's a silly place, but you think you need to know. For reasons.
-[X] Ask if she knows anything else that might be useful to know for a girl who wants to help people.

[X] Muse aloud about how you've kinda thought about hiring her to serve as a diplomat of sorts to other groups, but since you'd give her a clear seed and clean her soul gem anyway, the only thing you'd really have to pay her with is "borrowed" yakuza gold, and that's not any fun.
-[X] That reminds you, you should tell Sayaka about the mop.

[x] Wacky hijinks aside, you're idealistic, not stupid. This is serious business.
-[x] You're essentially proposing to create a small nation. Even with cleansing dealt with you'll still have to keep the peace. Keep hunting witches, integrate with the mundane economy, put past grievances aside and carry on with their lives, girls that are too traumatized to function...
-[x] You can probably police Mitakihara up to several dozen girls, but to really scale you'll need to find more people like yourself and your teammates. Girls that are skilled, capable, motivated, and, above all, moral.
-[x] You'd like to hire Bennouna on - real-money compensation - as a recruiter and diplomat. Anyone that she meets that you should talk to, you'd like her to put you in contact with them. You can supply money to put them on planes to you, or you can fly out to meet them.
-[X] Ask about magical girl groups that are particularly large, powerful, influential, or nasty. You know you're going to cause some waves with your offer of cleansing and clear seeds, so you want to know about groups that might cause issues. (By moving this behind the smash-cut and away from brain damage we make clear that this is an issue we take very seriously. Obviously we take all issues seriously, but there's an advantage to making the smash-cut first; she'll be inclined to respond in kind.)
-[X] Ask if she knows any magical girls who might be willing to travel to Mitakihara to fight a city-destroying witch. (I'm inclined to agree with Kaizuki that this is also an issue we should present seriously rather than flippantly, if only for Homura's sake.)
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Kaizuki said:
You seem to have missed a critical element. The main distribution mechanism for CS is unlikely to be Sabrina handing them out. Much more likely is jane guca picking up a grief seed from somewhere, walking up to Brina, and sniffle constantly while saying "Pls brina i no haz parents plz make clear seed plz T_T."

I see no universe where a declaration that we'll give out clear seeds for free is compatible with refusing that sort of thing.
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That example doesn't work. If they're that desperate, then they can stick around to get their gems and seeds constantly refreshed. Empty seeds aren't actually all that necessary. The problems come when magical girls are going to want to go back home and live a mostly normal life, which will actually require empty seeds. Or teleporters.

Also, am I the only that doesn't find the gold tangent all that funny?
 
Kaizuki said:
Constantly healing the bodies would take way too much fucking time, and putting them on ice involves having a place to put what are effectively dead bodies in fridges and not have anyone find them.
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How about putting them on warehouse-kun, then putting something like muggle-repelling enchantments on the building?
Agent Whiskers said:
Also, am I the only that doesn't find the gold tangent all that funny?
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I feel the same.
 
Kaizuki said:
You seem to have missed a critical element. The main distribution mechanism for CS is unlikely to be Sabrina handing them out. Much more likely is jane guca picking up a grief seed from somewhere, walking up to Brina, and sniffle constantly while saying "Pls brina i no haz parents plz make clear seed plz T_T."

I see no universe where a declaration that we'll give out clear seeds for free is compatible with refusing that sort of thing.
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We could be like, "I will care for you," pull 1% of the Grief out of the Seed so that she's safe for a little bit, set her up with a place to stay, stipend and try to find a role for her somewhere non-critical while we take the time to vet her and determine if she's trustworthy or not.

Also, if someone were faking sadness around us, we should be able to tell by the lack of Grief forming in their Soul Gem.
 
RagnorakTres said:
It might be worth re-ordering your vote a bit, @Vebyast. I'm not changing my vote, because I think yours works, but I'd like to suggest some modifications. Comments in (yellow), changes in red, because I'm unimaginative.

Article:
[X] In no particular order:
-[X] Hey, does she have a cell number, or an email address you can reach her at?
-[X] Ask her about magical girl current events. Anything interesting? Anything potentially dangerous looming?
-[X] Ask about the oldest magical girl she's heard of, and how old is she.
-[X] Ask about magical girls whose magic allows them to manipulate the soul. You have a source who indicated one would be coming here soon, and you want to know more about them, if possible.
-[X] Ask if she made all the enchanted items on her, or if she purchased them, and if the latter, how does she keep them charged.
-[X] Ask her if she knows of any magical girls who are fluent in Japanese, are decent people, and have any of the following powers:
--[X] Long-range teleportation or portals.
--[X] Any sort of danger sense that can be used to find threats to other people before the occur.
--[X] The ability to enhance or amplify the magic of others.
--[X] The ability to protect the minds of others from being tampered with.
--[X] High-end healing abilities.
--[X] Anyone who is particularly skilled at enchanting.
-[X] Ask if she knows anything about the magical girls in Asunaro. It's a silly place, but you think you need to know. For reasons.
-[X] Ask if she knows anything else that might be useful to know for a girl who wants to help people.

[X] Muse aloud about how you've kinda thought about hiring her to serve as a diplomat of sorts to other groups, but since you'd give her a clear seed and clean her soul gem anyway, the only thing you'd really have to pay her with is "borrowed" yakuza gold, and that's not any fun.
-[X] That reminds you, you should tell Sayaka about the mop.

[x] Wacky hijinks aside, you're idealistic, not stupid. This is serious business.
-[x] You're essentially proposing to create a small nation. Even with cleansing dealt with you'll still have to keep the peace. Keep hunting witches, integrate with the mundane economy, put past grievances aside and carry on with their lives, girls that are too traumatized to function...
-[x] You can probably police Mitakihara up to several dozen girls, but to really scale you'll need to find more people like yourself and your teammates. Girls that are skilled, capable, motivated, and, above all, moral.
-[x] You'd like to hire Bennouna on - real-money compensation - as a recruiter and diplomat. Anyone that she meets that you should talk to, you'd like her to put you in contact with them. You can supply money to put them on planes to you, or you can fly out to meet them.
-[X] Ask about magical girl groups that are particularly large, powerful, influential, or nasty. You know you're going to cause some waves with your offer of cleansing and clear seeds, so you want to know about groups that might cause issues. (By moving this behind the smash-cut and away from brain damage we make clear that this is an issue we take very seriously. Obviously we take all issues seriously, but there's an advantage to making the smash-cut first; she'll be inclined to respond in kind.)
-[X] Ask if she knows any magical girls who might be willing to travel to Mitakihara to fight a city-destroying witch. (I'm inclined to agree with Kaizuki that this is also an issue we should present seriously rather than flippantly, if only for Homura's sake.)
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Good points. Edited.
Kaizuki said:
-_-

And then you're accused of lying. Because it's not free, it's "questions asked."
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I... think we're getting into an argument over the definition of "free". Fact is, if someone goes off and misbehaves using some of our clear seeds, we're going to feel like we need to go slap them down. And if someone is causing trouble, it's not going to be as simple as handing it over and walking away. I don't think that we need to interrogate them ("are you or have you ever been a witch. >:["), but we'll probably be at least checking to make sure they aren't insane or evil first.
 
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Kaizuki said:
It was traumatic as hell for those around her, which is the issue. Constantly healing the bodies would take way too much fucking time, and putting them on ice involves having a place to put what are effectively dead bodies in fridges and not have anyone find them.
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The Pleiades have precisely such a place. The Freezer would make an excellent jail once we get a warp get set up Asunaro <-> Mitakihara.

Also, we could totally build incognito apartments in Mitakihara's rust belt. It's basically abandoned, large enough to house a burgeoning pseudocivilization, and Kyuubey is obligated to keep magic hidden from the public, so the little rat would actually be useful in helping us hide it. This is why I want us to be good friends with Niko, though; her powers are basically "solve all of our infrastructure problems forever" alongside potent healing.
 
Vebyast said:
I... think we're getting into an argument over the definition of "free". Fact is, if someone goes off and misbehaves using some of our clear seeds, we're going to feel like we need to go slap them down.
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This is definitely what is happening, yes. Which is probably because we don't know Bennounas definition of the same and Sabrina's definition is ahahahahaha, uh, not well defined.

Anyway. @Vebyast, trash the Yakuza gold stuff -- the muse line. It's completely redundant with all the stuff coming after it. And then, I think we call it a vote, probably.

[X] Vebyast
 
Kaizuki said:
And then you're accused of lying. Because it's not free, it's "questions asked."
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If it's "free" then it's a gift. And you only give gifts to people you know and trust.

Maybe it should be that everyone gets cleansings and refreshed Seeds, and trustworthy people get first priority on Clear Seeds as they become available. Eventually everyone will have one, or whatever enchanted equivalent we're going to make, but it'll take some time. Until almost the end of the month, even. :D

Kaizuki said:
It was traumatic as hell for those around her, which is the issue.
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If we wind up having to do it, then odds are violence is already being committed, so the trauma ship has sailed. Remember, we already used this method to neutralize the Sendai and Fukushima girls during the war.
 
Kaizuki said:
You seem to have missed a critical element. The main distribution mechanism for CS is unlikely to be Sabrina handing them out. Much more likely is jane guca picking up a grief seed from somewhere, walking up to Brina, and sniffle constantly while saying "Pls brina i no haz parents plz make clear seed plz T_T."

I see no universe where a declaration that we'll give out clear seeds for free is compatible with refusing that sort of thing.
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I did not miss it. I just consider it morally objectionable to hand out experimental tools without at least the potential to monitor the effects. So far, Sabrina has been willing to hand them out fairly freely, but it's always been in small enough numbers to keep track of and in situations where she has expected the ability to monitor their effects. I'm not claiming she wouldn't want to help everyone who asks, but I do not think she is unwilling to listen to a modicum of caution. I'm still advocating giving Clear Seeds out for free, but just cleaning out any Grief Seed that she's asked to and sending the girl off with a smile opens up even the girls Sabrina would be helping to potential tragedy if there are problems we are currently unaware of with the Clear Seeds.

I admit that if I was just advocating screening meguca before handing out Clear Seeds that I believe Sabrina would likely disagree with the idea for moral reasons, even if it could help prevent Mitakihara from devolving into chaos, but despite how long the quest has been going, Clear Seeds have not been in use for very long at all. Some level of caution or control in their use is warranted, even if they so far seem completely safe.

[X] Vebyast
 
@Kaizuki would funding be an actual issue for us in the future? I mean we have a precog on her way to recovery, a geomancer and technomancer over at Sendai who owes us quite a bit, a dedicated healer in the same city too, matter transmutation might be within our power with some research, a power copier, and who knows what other wonderful magic fuckery the refugees might bring to help earn some easy cash.

IMO, if we need something to keep the refugees from being idle, why not bring a bit of normality back into their lives? Like maybe a semi-hidden academy for magical girls? We could headhunt and hire reputable educators and counselors (from outside Japan if necessary), and brief them about the meguca system.
 
we could also let them go to normal school ala Mami, Sayaka and Homura.
 
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