- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Because Madoka was not a literal deity when she was acting on it?
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
芸術家の魔女。その性質は虚栄。自らを選ばれた存在であると疑わぬ魔女。誰かに自分の作品を見せたくて仕方が無く人間にも積極的に干渉してくるが、その結界内はどこかで見たようなものばかり。この魔女を倒したくば著名な批評家を連れてくればよい。
Izabel
Runes IZABEL
Type Artist witch
Nature Vanity
Episodes Episode 10
The artist witch. Her nature is vanity. Without a slightest doubt, she believes her existence is blessed. Wanting someone to see her work, she often interferes with human world. However within her barrier only exist works that you have probably seen somewhere before. To defeat this witch, just bring a well-known critic with you.
Last I checked this witch wasn't beaten while a well known critic was in the barrier. could be wrong.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
くるみ割りの魔女。その性質は自己完結。かつて数多くの種を砕いたその勇姿も壊れてしまっては仕様がない。他に価値など持たないこの魔女が最後に望むは自身の処刑。だが、首を刎ねる程度で魔女の罪は消えない。この愚かな魔女は永遠にこの此岸で処刑までの葬列を繰り返す。
Homulilly (First Form)
Runes HOMULILLY
Type Nutcracker witch
Nature Self-sufficient
Episodes The Rebellion Story
The Nutcracker Witch. Its nature is self-sufficiency. Its gallant form, which once split many nuts, is now useless. Without any other purpose, this witch's last wish is her own execution. However, a mere decapitation will not clear away the witch's sins. This foolish witch will forever remain in this realm, repeating the procession to her execution.
Considering the witch doesn't remain in her realm forever Would this be good enough?
Yea, uh...she WOULD'VE if a bunch of ANGELS didn't show up.
芸術家の魔女。その性質は虚栄。自らを選ばれた存在であると疑わぬ魔女。誰かに自分の作品を見せたくて仕方が無く人間にも積極的に干渉してくるが、その結界内はどこかで見たようなものばかり。この魔女を倒したくば著名な批評家を連れてくればよい。
Izabel
Runes IZABEL
Type Artist witch
Nature Vanity
Episodes Episode 10
The artist witch. Her nature is vanity. Without a slightest doubt, she believes her existence is blessed. Wanting someone to see her work, she often interferes with human world. However within her barrier only exist works that you have probably seen somewhere before. To defeat this witch, just bring a well-known critic with you.
Last I checked this witch wasn't beaten while a well known critic was in the barrier. could be wrong.
It doesn't say that's the only method that could possibly work, unlike the Gretchen example. Try again.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
No she wouldn't have. (Without Sayaka and Madoka and the third one) Mami and Kyoko would have killed her.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Yea, uh...no they wouldn't of. They'd of never gotten close enough to do anything without Sayaka's and Nagisa's army of familiars. That's what that whole battle was about. And even then, though Homura had faith in them to kill her, that doesn't mean they'd of succeeded in doing so.
This is also, of course, ignoring that with the grammatical structure of the witch card in Japanese, it's probably referring to how if not interfered with, she'd just play out a mock execution over and over again, demonstrated by the giant fucking guillotine and Kyubey's spiel about Homura "living in eternity amongst her curses."
Again, you're presupposing your own argument. You're not showing me any proof of anything.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
They weren't trying to kill her. They were trying to save her.
There is also the whole, "If you die here you'll cease to exist and will never see Madoka again" thing he said.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
1) Irrelevant. Homulilly wasn't going to let them interfere regardless. Witches generally don't act how their previous self would have.
2) If witches could commit suicide and succeed, there probably wouldn't be any witches.
2) If witches could commit suicide and succeed, there probably wouldn't be any witches.
Script Mak3r
(Verified Sun God) (Verified Feathers)
- Location
- Hell of Blazing Fires
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well, if you think that we'll remember this several months from now...
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Considering that Homura assigned them as her executioners...... yes she would have, rather much like how Mami's witch would keep people with her until they die the desires of a witch are what the witch attempts to achieve Homura's witch is the only one that is actively seeking its death going by all the information given to us on witches.
This is a presumption that everyone who is in depression is suicidal.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
1) Actually not true, there's a couple other witches that illustrate self-destructive intent. Quitterie and Itzli, for instance, as well as Roberta. In fact, most witches seem to loathe themselves since that's largely the point. Additionally, witches often act AGAINST their Magical Girl self's desires just as often. Octavia, for instance, attacked her best friend and is implied to have attacked Kyousuke and Hitomi in several loops. Sayaka also expressed a desire to die and finally rest during her Grief Spiral, and guess what? No suicide attempt from her witch.
2) No, it's a hyperbolic turn of phrase to point out that the population dynamics don't reflect witches being able to kill themselves. There is absolutely not even one single iota of evidence of a witch destroying or even harming itself. It's me saying you're reaching and have absolutely nothing to stand on.
2) No, it's a hyperbolic turn of phrase to point out that the population dynamics don't reflect witches being able to kill themselves. There is absolutely not even one single iota of evidence of a witch destroying or even harming itself. It's me saying you're reaching and have absolutely nothing to stand on.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
1.Sayaka expressed an expectance of suffering for the price of her wish, knowing her she'd feel obligated to pay it,
2. Witches care more about their suffering then any other aspect, they cannot suffer if their dead mostly because witches believe they should suffer.
3. Homura and her witch would most certainly see never being able to see Madoka again as the greatest amount of suffering for her 'sins'.
4.Wtiches always are harming themselves, Kyubey asked Homura why she was worsening the curse, would worsening a curse on your self not count as a form of self harm?
5.Witches are born of curses. Curse: a solemn utterance intended to invoke a supernatural power to inflict harm or punishment on someone or something. Witches seek to harm and punish namely themselves and weather you like it or not they can't be harmed or punished if their dead.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Yea, okay, you're just arguing bullshit semantics games at this point. Moving on.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
In a well-written story, magic has its own set of internally-consistent rules. Otherwise the story quickly degenerates into random bullshit as the writers pull more and more contrived deus ex machina out of their asses.
Gretchen would be unbeatable simply because she's (based on size alone) many orders of magnitude more powerful than a normal witch. Even the loop 4 version looks like she's probably at least 106 times the volume of Gertrude or Charlotte. All the magical girls on Earth couldn't hope to destroy that. (Homura didn't stick around in that timeline long enough for us to see if nuclear weapons were employed, and that's the only thing on Earth that could possibly affect a target that size.)
If we take the philosophical approach, then every witch with a desire that's not yet fulfilled and every magical girl that wished "to protect everyone" would be conceptually invulnerable.
You don't watch Doctor Who, I take it?
For extra amusement, a few of the movies featured on MST3K confused "solar system" and "constellation".
Going by my 1018 calculation from before, I can entirely believe that UKG could wipe out the Milky Way galaxy.
Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
Is that all?
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Not saying that she couldn't go further, but there's a lot of empty space between galaxies. It'd take her a while to get anywhere.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
*looks at Homucifer.* Um.
Okay sure but I wasn't saying any witch could just do shit like that just because. I was saying Gretchen could because she's basically a god-level Witch as it is, give or take a few loops. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Walpurgis has conceptual "Fuck you, you lose magic" by Word of God and Gretchen is WORSE than her.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Because they want to mathhammer things too much.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Let's not even give them that much. You can perfectly well mathhammer narratives and symbolism. You just need a very different kind of math, as different from normal mathhammering as graph theory is from differential calculus. They're trying to mathhammer it and they're doing it badly, embarrassingly so.
So, two pages of discussion on a Witch who isn't going to even appear in this Quest, but nothing about how Homura is unintentionally getting Madoka upset with her Thousand Yard Stare? I know SV really has no business trying to tell anyone else how to Social, but from the breakdown Homura had in Ep 11 I get the feeling that she really doesn't like upsetting Madoka, and would appreciate some advice on how not to do that in the future.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Possibly because she's not doing the thousand-yard stare at all? Her voice is sharp, suggesting focus and engagement rather than detachment. If I had to guess at an expression, she's probably glaring, and I'm giving it even odds that she's snapping at Mami instead of Madoka. Especially given that Madoka didn't sound like she was too on board with the idea in the first place.
Most of the reason to lead off with the bit about Bennouna is to recover the tone from that without specifically telling Homura off, which'd continue the hostility. I'll think about our goals with that bit and maybe post an edit when I get back to a computer.
Most of the reason to lead off with the bit about Bennouna is to recover the tone from that without specifically telling Homura off, which'd continue the hostility. I'll think about our goals with that bit and maybe post an edit when I get back to a computer.
Last edited:
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
[x] Having Madoka and Homura along to meet with Bennouna sounds great, if they want to come.
[x] But the cleansing trip... maybe once peace has settled in and these trips are routine, but right now we're not quite sure what these girls are like or how it'll go.
[x] You actually wanted to ask Homura and Madoka if they could hold the fort while the rest of the team was off doing that.
[x] On cleansing and instability, Tokyo. Give everyone a brief summary and ask how they think we should handle it - wait for a response, call them and try to short-circuit the process, Attempt Politics, etc.
[x] When the opportunity arises, pull Madoka aside and thank her for last night. Not only was the sleepover nice on its own, the sheer normalcy of it is important. Inviting Sayaka was a particularly good idea; Madoka's a Good Friend.
-[x] Speaking of which, ask Madoka to point the friendship cannons at Homura. You're sure she'll appreciate it, and it'd be good for her.
[x] If you find a chance, pull Homura aside to quietly explain the keeping-Madoka-safe plan. We agree with keeping her away from danger, but she'll always want to help and she's too brave to be simply scared away, so we're giving her other - safer - ways to feel and be included.
[x] But the cleansing trip... maybe once peace has settled in and these trips are routine, but right now we're not quite sure what these girls are like or how it'll go.
[x] You actually wanted to ask Homura and Madoka if they could hold the fort while the rest of the team was off doing that.
[x] On cleansing and instability, Tokyo. Give everyone a brief summary and ask how they think we should handle it - wait for a response, call them and try to short-circuit the process, Attempt Politics, etc.
[x] When the opportunity arises, pull Madoka aside and thank her for last night. Not only was the sleepover nice on its own, the sheer normalcy of it is important. Inviting Sayaka was a particularly good idea; Madoka's a Good Friend.
-[x] Speaking of which, ask Madoka to point the friendship cannons at Homura. You're sure she'll appreciate it, and it'd be good for her.
[x] If you find a chance, pull Homura aside to quietly explain the keeping-Madoka-safe plan. We agree with keeping her away from danger, but she'll always want to help and she's too brave to be simply scared away, so we're giving her other - safer - ways to feel and be included.
Any chance of including a bit about getting those basic safety enchantments done too? I know we're not going to be doing it this update, but putting it in there should ensure that we don't leave before it happens, and it needs to happen now. We've been putting it off too long already.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Because conceptual invulnerability is conceptually absurd.
No matter how powerful something is, its power isn't infinite, so its defense can't be infinitely strong. If something more powerful can apply a greater amount of energy, then the defense will be breached.
This website takes its very name from the principle that any defense can be overcome if you can apply enough energy to it. That's what "one at sufficient velocity" means.
Look, screenwriters say ridiculous things sometimes. It happens in every franchise. You have to filter those statements through some common sense to turn them into something sane.
It makes a lot more sense for Walpurgisnacht and Gretchen to be difficult to hurt because of how powerful they are, and the conceptual narrative is their vulnerability, the conditions that will make them drop their defenses and allow themselves to die because they feel their purpose is fulfilled.
This kind of sounds like we're pushing for Madoka to meet Bennouna. Given that Madoka sounded reluctant when Mami asked her, we may want to be more neutral when we respond. While we're not particularly concerned about Madoka being there, we don't particularly want her to be, either; it limits our ability to talk about certain topics, like Walpurgisnacht. Maybe something more like this:
[ ] If Madoka and Homura want to come along to meet Bennouna too, I'm sure they'd be welcome.