AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Right then. Somebody weave that one thought I had earlier into the vote. Tell Homura about Symmetry Diamond.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Muramasa
Best Girl
Aura how does this help?
- Location
- Austria
Just remove it?
Like, in this very update Kirika flipped quite seriously when we even mentioned her as a possibly person who wants something else than Oriko. Maybe...
[] This is not what you would wish on Kirika
..or something like this still directed at Oriko?
This is actually nice looking. Though I'm a sucker for 'cool, collected talking without emotions distracting from transfer of information too much' things, so...still, I like it.
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[
] Keep asking her "Why?" until her argument breaks down.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Amusingly enough, the revelation that Oriko's soul gem is starting to unfuck itself at the same time as we're moving closer to a future where she's opposing us, um, kinda makes trying to deal with Homura a bit premature.
In all honesty, this past vote might very well have shifted Oriko back to being an enemy, if/when she realizes that.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
What if we ask to check up on Aurora at some... calm point in the conversation. Just to check up on its progress. Promise to give it back after we're done.
You know, so we don't have enemies with infinite magic.
You know, so we don't have enemies with infinite magic.
[Q] Yes, be the child. Let Oriko be the adult for once.[
- Location
- The Outer Plane Of Munchkinry.
i just had a thought. what would she do if we made her chose between dying and using her precog to help people?
- Location
- Austria
I don't see it, to be honest.
She just found herself:
a. A purpose
b. Way to die for something she believes in (her right to die, recursively enough)
I don't think that's a reason to fight or anything. Just reminder of what she wished for and what she wants, that is: validation, meaning in life, (to die maybe).
Muramasa
Best Girl
Decided to put x's in my vote for now. Though I doubt it'll be the final version.
@ctulhuslp
Yeah I removed that line for now. Felt like I had Sabrina talking as if Kirika wasn't even in the room.
@ctulhuslp
Yeah I removed that line for now. Felt like I had Sabrina talking as if Kirika wasn't even in the room.
Jeez, she really is kind of puppet. From the fallout from what happened with her father and her own powers.
Anyway, how is her death benefiting the world? Because she'd been helping plenty of people even when confined to her house. How many people would have died from the natural disaster created from that whole Sendai conflict again?
Anyway, how is her death benefiting the world? Because she'd been helping plenty of people even when confined to her house. How many people would have died from the natural disaster created from that whole Sendai conflict again?
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Socratic method is best method. Ask lots of questions to examine her viewpoint.
You're probably going to have to explain the difference, because it looks like she's just wasting away pointlessly with a whimper to me. Unless I've missed something vitally important.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Homura legitimately has no awareness of timelines where Oriko contracts but doesn't harass Madoka; but there's a LOT of those. Lay out that in most timelines Oriko spends her meguca life helping abused kids, taking out renegade Magical Girls, and dying trying to defeat Walpurgisnacht before it reaches Homura's area.
She deviates from that only because of Gretchen, but due to Sabrina and Feathers she now wants Sabrina, Homura, and Madoka alive. Oriko doesn't inherently want to hurt Madoka, she inherently wants to help others.
I don't know what else to tell Homura to convince her to lift the goddamn house arrest, which is one of the only things I can think of to prevent Oriko's downward spiral.
- Location
- The Outer Plane Of Munchkinry.
we should only let her have one of those things. it should mess with her enough that we can trick her into thinking some sane thoughts while she's trying to figure it out.
Nolrai
weak to fangs
- Location
- Porltand
Oh I agree, and I see holes in her argument...but I don't think that would help.
She doesn't need us to give her a speech. Not sure what she does need. But...
Muramasa
Best Girl
The problem is an Oriko has killed Madoka before. She still has the capacity to kill her again. The elements that made Oriko dangerous then are still there. As long as that's true, we can't in good conscience push for Oriko's release. Homura's fears while not completely rational are still justified.
The only way I can think of for this to change is that Homura and Oriko need to talk. Homura has to confront her, even yell at her for killing Madoka.
- Location
- South Africa
Oriko wants to die in addition to benefiting the world. Not to choose one or the other. That said, Oriko doesn't comprehend the idea of a "better" world with her in it. To her, her existence within the world is proof that the world is not good enough.
It's like this.
Oriko: In a good world, people don't believe their father's lies.
Oriko: I believed my father's lies.
Oriko: Therefore, I don't belong in a good world.
She feels tainted by her trust in her father and hates herself because of that.And she feels that as long as she remains alive, she's tainting the world itself so that it cannot be a good world.
We need to break that belief.
@Muramasa: Oriko isn't going to believe she has the right to pursue happiness yet. She's going to treat it as a lecture she can ignore. We need to show we understand her perspective.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
hmm
It sounds as if she doesn't want to, meaning she just thought up a better idea.
Hmmm, prove it, ask her to prove that this assumption is correct, cause honestly it doesn't have to be anything considering the fact that that we could very easily stop her from getting involved in the future in any real manner.
simply detach their gems from their bodies and get them nice and clean and wait until after Wallynight and pick up our conversation then.
I guess I'm playing devil's advocate here but if we can't convince her to give up on martyrdom and rocking her will just lead to her soul imploding any way should we just let her die in a fashion of her choosing? I'd like her to survive and live a happy life but there's really only so much we could do to stop her and that will only make her death even more agonizing.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Some points that I think should be covered:
[x] Dismiss the idea that because she foresaw something, it's inevitable. Lots of Oriko's visions haven't come true, because we chose to prevent them. The only way that visions of her death are different is because she doesn't want to prevent them.
-[x] Oriko's only seeing her death because that's what she wants to see. She was depressed and suicidal when she made her wish for purpose, so she got a lot of purposeful ways to kill herself. Her visions are flawed. She's already admitted as much, that there are things that she can't see, like us and Feathers.
--[x] And that's not her only blind spot. She never answered our question: did it ever occur to her that destroying Sayaka's apartment when it was empty would have gotten the job done without hurting anyone? Or did her visions not show her that option because it wasn't self-destructive enough to suit her tastes? Did they also not show her that Homura and Mami had already started working together by that point, so the whole things was pointless in that regard?
[x] For that matter, how does her dying now benefit the world? What does it accomplish? (If she actually has an answer, tear apart every logical flaw in it.)
-[x] Remind Oriko that her living benefits the world a lot more, because she can help us save people. Does she not remember when she helped us avert a war in Ishinomaki and Sendai? If she'd gotten herself killed like she was planning, dozens of people would have died.
--[x] Letting herself die isn't noble, it's selfish. It doesn't make the world better. It robs the world of any good that she could accomplish, just to escape her own pain.
---[x] Wanting to die isn't a purpose, it's a mental illness.
[x] Kirika loves Oriko. She would die for her. She probably will die with Oriko, if Oriko lets herself die. The question is, does Oriko love Kirika? If so, then how can she bear to let Kirika die for the sake of her own selfish death wish? Kirika sacrificed everything for Oriko's sake, and Oriko can't even be bothered to stay alive for Kirika's?
-[x] If Kirika objects to this approach, remind her that she wished to help Oriko. Enabling her plans to die isn't helping her, it's letting her hurt herself. Convincing her to live would be helping her.
--[x] If they love each other, then a double suicide isn't the answer. (And contrary to Japanese folklore, they won't be reincarnated as twins. Their souls are rocks now.) If they love each other, then they should want each other to live. Fight for that love! Fight so that the one they love will live! Fight against fate itself if they have to! You would.
[x] Dismiss the idea that because she foresaw something, it's inevitable. Lots of Oriko's visions haven't come true, because we chose to prevent them. The only way that visions of her death are different is because she doesn't want to prevent them.
-[x] Oriko's only seeing her death because that's what she wants to see. She was depressed and suicidal when she made her wish for purpose, so she got a lot of purposeful ways to kill herself. Her visions are flawed. She's already admitted as much, that there are things that she can't see, like us and Feathers.
--[x] And that's not her only blind spot. She never answered our question: did it ever occur to her that destroying Sayaka's apartment when it was empty would have gotten the job done without hurting anyone? Or did her visions not show her that option because it wasn't self-destructive enough to suit her tastes? Did they also not show her that Homura and Mami had already started working together by that point, so the whole things was pointless in that regard?
[x] For that matter, how does her dying now benefit the world? What does it accomplish? (If she actually has an answer, tear apart every logical flaw in it.)
-[x] Remind Oriko that her living benefits the world a lot more, because she can help us save people. Does she not remember when she helped us avert a war in Ishinomaki and Sendai? If she'd gotten herself killed like she was planning, dozens of people would have died.
--[x] Letting herself die isn't noble, it's selfish. It doesn't make the world better. It robs the world of any good that she could accomplish, just to escape her own pain.
---[x] Wanting to die isn't a purpose, it's a mental illness.
[x] Kirika loves Oriko. She would die for her. She probably will die with Oriko, if Oriko lets herself die. The question is, does Oriko love Kirika? If so, then how can she bear to let Kirika die for the sake of her own selfish death wish? Kirika sacrificed everything for Oriko's sake, and Oriko can't even be bothered to stay alive for Kirika's?
-[x] If Kirika objects to this approach, remind her that she wished to help Oriko. Enabling her plans to die isn't helping her, it's letting her hurt herself. Convincing her to live would be helping her.
--[x] If they love each other, then a double suicide isn't the answer. (And contrary to Japanese folklore, they won't be reincarnated as twins. Their souls are rocks now.) If they love each other, then they should want each other to live. Fight for that love! Fight so that the one they love will live! Fight against fate itself if they have to! You would.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Glint in her eye also sounds ominous as fuck. It doesn't read to me like 'I realized something'/'You need to say the right words'/etc.; it sounds like a warning.
This might be reaching, but:
I frankly want to throw a Giant Wall Of Grief Sand At Sufficient Velocity at them (avoid gems) to body kill them before they can do anything, disconnected them, gather their remains, pocket their souls, and deal with them way, way later.
WAY later.
This might be reaching, but:
I frankly want to throw a Giant Wall Of Grief Sand At Sufficient Velocity at them (avoid gems) to body kill them before they can do anything, disconnected them, gather their remains, pocket their souls, and deal with them way, way later.
WAY later.
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I'd like to do this too but less out of fear and more out of a dislike of social.