Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- Illinois
I'd opine that we could instead try asking Kirika to give us a half-second to react, to not eviscerate but merely defend, etc.
Gadjo
Doka
Uh huh. And how do you think it'd go if instead of warning someone in a meeting with Madoka and Homura we just trusted Homura to defend and not attack? Cus that's how it'll go here.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Bamboozled Mami +1.
Careful Oriko, your precog is showing.
Stop giving us hints that you're a filthy liar and worse, Feathers.
Brina's very caring.
Crasian01
Insane Incubator
@Kaizuki
You are an optimist. I sigh deeply in your general direction.
Such an action will help but you should have a plan for the worst possible case. In this case, that probably is something that involves Sayaka making a run for Oriko, Kirika trying to eviscerate her, Kyubey appearing and getting Hitomi to contract, followed by a 2v2 melee that may or may not result in Homura time-stopping and shooting everyone's knees out.
Sure, between Sabrina and Mami, that should get squelched pretty quick, but:
1) What @Gadjo just said.
2) Hitmoi just contracted in this worst-case scenario.
3) Kirika may or may not be in a permanent untrusting murderdozer mode for the remainder of the conversation
4) Attempts at reconciliation just got blasted with a nuclear bomb and will need much time to heal and try again.
5) Depending on reaction speed of Homura and her willingness to stay in timestop, may end up with a lot of damage to heal, lots of blood everywhere, general bad things.
So, well, yeah.
You are an optimist. I sigh deeply in your general direction.
Such an action will help but you should have a plan for the worst possible case. In this case, that probably is something that involves Sayaka making a run for Oriko, Kirika trying to eviscerate her, Kyubey appearing and getting Hitomi to contract, followed by a 2v2 melee that may or may not result in Homura time-stopping and shooting everyone's knees out.
Sure, between Sabrina and Mami, that should get squelched pretty quick, but:
1) What @Gadjo just said.
2) Hitmoi just contracted in this worst-case scenario.
3) Kirika may or may not be in a permanent untrusting murderdozer mode for the remainder of the conversation
4) Attempts at reconciliation just got blasted with a nuclear bomb and will need much time to heal and try again.
5) Depending on reaction speed of Homura and her willingness to stay in timestop, may end up with a lot of damage to heal, lots of blood everywhere, general bad things.
So, well, yeah.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
[ ] Invite Homura inside if she wants.
[ ] Telepathically tell Best Buddy it's all gonna be OK. Trust us.
[ ] Before going in, ask again Sayaka and Hitomi to please refrain from physical violence.
-[ ] And check Grief levels of everyone around.
--[ ] And try to feel and check if there's any suspicious magic afoot.
[ ] Once everybody (likely sans Homura) is inside, do introductions and try to seat Mami and yourself in between S&H and O&K.
-[ ] Propose making a Grief privacy thing to stop KB from eavesdropping.
--[ ] If you go for that, try and make it so Homura can hear everything that goes on; if she isn't within your radius, tell her to come closer into it.
-[ ] Mediate. Oriko and Sayaka and Hitomi should do their thing, but if necessary, try to steer debate away from unhelpful, aggravating paths and towards a proper resolution; Oriko must accept reponsibility for her actions and her and Sayaka must come to some sort of peace about Oriko's actions -or as far as they can get; attempt to break the meeting if things seem unable to progress and the meeting starts devolving in a bad way.
--[ ] Point out any glaring omissions Oriko might make.
---[ ] Keep an eye on tempers, specially Sayaka's and Kirika's, and keep an eye on everybody's Soul Gems.
[ ] Telepathically tell Best Buddy it's all gonna be OK. Trust us.
[ ] Before going in, ask again Sayaka and Hitomi to please refrain from physical violence.
-[ ] And check Grief levels of everyone around.
--[ ] And try to feel and check if there's any suspicious magic afoot.
[ ] Once everybody (likely sans Homura) is inside, do introductions and try to seat Mami and yourself in between S&H and O&K.
-[ ] Propose making a Grief privacy thing to stop KB from eavesdropping.
--[ ] If you go for that, try and make it so Homura can hear everything that goes on; if she isn't within your radius, tell her to come closer into it.
-[ ] Mediate. Oriko and Sayaka and Hitomi should do their thing, but if necessary, try to steer debate away from unhelpful, aggravating paths and towards a proper resolution; Oriko must accept reponsibility for her actions and her and Sayaka must come to some sort of peace about Oriko's actions -or as far as they can get; attempt to break the meeting if things seem unable to progress and the meeting starts devolving in a bad way.
--[ ] Point out any glaring omissions Oriko might make.
---[ ] Keep an eye on tempers, specially Sayaka's and Kirika's, and keep an eye on everybody's Soul Gems.
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Feel's a bit obvious, say didn't Sabrina created clear grief barriers before? We could explain it as part of a Grief privacy thing as it appeared then vanish/clear.
We could ask Mami or Homu to keep an eye on KB appearance and react in the moment. Better he didn't get any word out.
"Hey, c'mon. We're superheroes; what could happen?"
As much as I agree with you, that ship has kind of sailed already. We've spent the last several updates apologizing, appeasing, and capitulating to Sayaka and Hitomi over and over and over, against several people's advice and sometimes against our actual votes. Respect has to be earned, and at this point we've allowed Hitomi and Sayaka to bully us into doing what they want, and have ceded all possible moral high ground by highlighting again and again how little we deserve any respect at all.
At this point those two aren't going to listen to anything we have to say; they've built up a fine head of righteous indignation and we really haven't done anything to dissuade them from being as angry and violent to O&K as they were to us. Heck, we've just shown them that getting angry at a meguca seems to be a great idea by bowing and scraping every time they raise a hand to us. We're just going to have to prepare for what's going to happen, clean up the mess, and, given how we've been acting lately, apologize to everyone again.
I'll note that using active grief seems like it can be incredibly agitating for MGs. Not sure if it's wise to use in a tense situation like this, but that could just be baseless paranoia on my part. Other then that, not much to do besides just getting on with it. Maybe give Homura a brief explanation of how Hitomi and Sayaka took the news?
Crasian01
Insane Incubator
Maybe consider not apologizing? "This is what needed to happen, let's just move on from here"?
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
[] Telepathy Kirika and Mami:
-[] Hitomi isn't a magical girl and we'll deal with her if she tries anything, but if Sayaka decides to get violent, we won't hold it against you if you get an arm or a leg off before we can restrain everybody. We can heal it and she needs to learn that anger and violence aren't good ideas.
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
Bloody hell, freakin' Justice Yakuza and Vengeance Knight are straining my patience. Tempted to arrange for Hitomi's family to move to...umm...Europe. Europe works.
Not many options for Sayaka, though.
Too bad that they're Momdoka's close friends...-_-
Not many options for Sayaka, though.
Too bad that they're Momdoka's close friends...-_-
It's not their fault; we've been spending the last several updates showing them that, if you're angry enough, yell loudly enough, and physically assault a powerful meguca that she'll meekly roll over and apologize to you over and over. Why would they think to do anything different, considering how well it went against Sabrina?
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
...you know, we should have directed them to Homura. She's good at not folding under social pressure.
Maybe include something to the effect of "Behave yourselves, or else." In the next update.
Not sure what the threat would actually lead to considering we're such a softy, but solitary confinement in a Grief Cage could be a start.
Edit: Ah, who am I kidding. The majority of Sabrina's a doormat. Understandably, maybe, but we need to remind them that most Meguca would gut them for this kind of behavior.
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Crasian01
Insane Incubator
This sort of powerplay is well in the repertoire of some people, it's just that this thread keeps downvoting them...
The galling part is that I spent days lobbying to tone down the apologetic tone and include that part about Sayaka's violent tendencies being dangerous... and it got cut because it didn't flow right, and I couldn't get it included in the next vote at all because people are saying that we don't have Sayaka's respect. Well no shit we don't have her respect; we spend so much of our time highlighting our perceived failings and glossing over hers it's no wonder she doesn't think we can do anything right.
At this point I'm just abdicating responsibility for the next bit and letting the chips fall where they may. We might be able to regain a little initiative at this late juncture, but at this point any attempt at intervening is just going to fuel resentment on Sayaka and Hitomi's part, particularly if it's successful and nobody gets hurt, because intervening now, after they've had a good long time to settle into their opinions, will come off as needless insertion of our wrong ideas into their righteous rage-train. Somewhat depressingly, we'll probably be better off going forward if something goes wrong at this juncture and one of those two does get hurt, as that might persuade them to be more cautious and less prone to fly off the handle in the future.
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"Welcome to the life of a magical girl, Sayaka."
Oriko is such a drama queen. It's so deeply ingrained in her personality that she can't drop the habit even when threatened with death. Now that it's no longer an obstruction, it's kind of endearing.
...such a drama queen.
- Location
- South Africa
We'd have had far, far, far, far less of her respect if we hadn't. What's more, she'd be right to utterly disrespect us in that case, because it would mean we weren't even mature enough to own up to our own mistakes. A show of forcefulness does not show worthiness of respect. It would just encourage Sayaka to see us like she saw Homura and Kyuoko in canon. We would not have earned respect but contempt. If you want to earn Sayaka's respect, you have to act like a mature person. Not avoid responsibility.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Next training session with Sayaka, we might want to focus on "how to stay alive as a Meguca". Holding yourself ready for violence without being threatening so you aren't flat-footed when negotiations disintegrate, spotting and responding to ambushes, noticing when someone is ready for violence themselves, work with the others to simulate a fight against a mind-controller meguca, generally hit all the important points of CONSTANT VIGILANCE. End with an object lesson in healing, that is, tear our arm off, throw it at her, and yell at her that we need healing.
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Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
I like to imagine that the typos are actually what Sabrina says, in that way a real conversation is usually completely illegible on paper.
Like, we actually said "Violene" and everyone just rolled with it because Sayaka accidentally "Ice Cream" into "Carburetor" yesterday somehow and we all missed it for like five minutes.
Or something.
That was super embarrassing by the way I'm glad I wasn't there.
Crasian01
Insane Incubator
The problem is that this cannot be matched by immediate acquiescence to given demands. At least, not if the balance of power is to be kept firmly in the hands of Sabrina. It is not wise to allow the relationship to be equal between Sabrina and Sayaka for a wide range of reasons, none of which I will enumerate here for the sake of brevity. If you are interested I will post more thoughts. The upshot is that you cannot have a democracy when the knowledge and understanding between parties is inequal. Decision making power has to remain in the hands of the person who knows more about what to do with that power, when to apply it, and how to do it in a way that won't result in enemies at the gate. Neither Sayaka nor Hitomi have the experience to make any judgments about when and where to meet anyone, and the failure to enlighten them to the existence of Kirika and Oriko does not obviate that fact.
- Location
- South Africa
We had to acquiesce to their demands because it would be bad not to. To do otherwise would be meaningless spite, and would be rightly seen as pouting an throwing a temper tantrum. Certainly not something worthy of respect. Next, we have not earned the right to power over Hitomi and Sayaka. Mere knowledge is not enough for that. It requires trust. We've broken their trust and refusing what they want or avoiding responsibility would cause them to lose even more of it. Your suggestion would result in us having even less power over them. Sayaka in particular would start to see us as a tyrant and defy us as much as she could out of principle.
- Location
- ⇙
Blegh. Sayaka still hasn't understood anything. Granted she's angry and probably not in the best state of mind for lectures and everything, but she still doesn't get what's so bad about contracting and being a magical girl in general.
Seems like she'll only get it with some first hand experience.
As for the vote: Nothing much to do other than walking in and seeing what happens now. Maybe stop Oriko from adding more drama.